Should the quiet coach be called the silence coach?

[Tomonthetrain]

Personally I would scrap the QC. That then allows a extra carriage that people can sit in without moaning people wanting to have draconian rules.

Otherwise if the QC mus stay, then it's only fair, and non discriminatory, to have coaches for every type of preference. Business Coaches. Eating Coaches, Non Eating Coaches, plus every other variation thereof

 

[Flamingo]

When in a cinema or theatre, who thinks it is unreasonable of the company to ask patrons to refrain from using their phones? If a TOC wishes to do this with an area of the train, that is up to them as a private company. If anybody doesnt like it, there are alternatives, including waiting for the next train or catching a bus.

 

[GB]

Personally I would scrap the QC. That then allows a extra carriage that people can sit in without moaning people wanting to have draconian rules.

Otherwise if the QC mus stay, then it's only fair, and non discriminatory, to have coaches for every type of preference. Business Coaches. Eating Coaches, Non Eating Coaches, plus every other variation thereof

Whats so "draconian" about requesting people not use noisy electrical equipment?:roll:

I really don't see why some people are taking issue with having a quiet coach. I don't know how it works on other operators but on GA it works fine.

 

[Squaddie]

I've just booked a return MAN-EUS and lo and behold, no window view on either journey (Pendo, Coach B 18 and Coach B 07). Intensively annoying, but there is nothing I can do about it nor think of a solution to the problem.

[Off-topic]
You can do something about it! When you book tickets, keep a Pendolino seating diagram next to you. If you don't like the seats that Virgin assigns press the Back button and then the Continue button again - and two different seats will be assigned. Repeat until happy (but be prepared to do this over a dozen times, and even fill your basket with unwanted tickets, before the system finally gives you a decent seat!).
[/Off-topic]

 

[Geezertronic]

Personally I would scrap the QC. That then allows a extra carriage that people can sit in without moaning people wanting to have draconian rules.

Otherwise if the QC mus stay, then it's only fair, and non discriminatory, to have coaches for every type of preference. Business Coaches. Eating Coaches, Non Eating Coaches, plus every other variation thereof

What a ridiculous post. For those of us who want to close our eyes and have a bit of piece and quiet during our train journey, why should we not have some peace and quiet rather than listen to other peoples phone converstions and "personal" music?

 

[krisk]

Because it doesn't get obeyed and it can't be enforced. Simples.

 

[Class 33]

What a ridiculous post. For those of us who want to close our eyes and have a bit of piece and quiet during our train journey, why should we not have some peace and quiet rather than listen to other peoples phone converstions and "personal" music?

Indeed. The Quiet Coaches should certainly not be scrapped.

Now, if people talked more quietly on their phones and kept conversations very short ala other countries such as Germany, The Netherlands, etc, then it wouldn't be such an issue. But the problem here in Britain is that a lot of people do insist on talking LOUDLY on their mobiles and long conversations babbling on and on. Hardly important and urgent calls either, talking about what they did last week, what they're doing this weekend, how their job is going, etc, etc. I've yet to hear any conversations in all these years which I would say were IMPORTANT and URGENT calls!

I got on a First Great Western HST a few months back. Went to sit in the Quiet Coach but unfortunately every seat was occupied, and that was before departure from Paddington. So had to make do with a seat elsewhere on the train. It was a nightmare, a number of people talking loudly on their mobiles babbling away throughout the journey. And just when you think these people have finished their calls, they then go and call someone else and say basically the same things to them all over again!

 

[Squaddie]

Because it doesn't get obeyed and it can't be enforced. Simples.

Unfortunately, there is a minority of passengers who refuse to observe the rules of the quiet carriage, and a majority of train crew who appear to have no interest in enforcing the rules.

But the concept of a quiet carriage - a space in which to relax and enjoy a journey without unnecessary noise - is a perfectly valid and desirable one. I would even take it further than the current rules, and insist that children and laptops were also barred from those spaces.

 

[Geezertronic]

Unfortunately, there is a minority of passengers who refuse to observe the rules of the quiet carriage, and a majority of train crew who appear to have no interest in enforcing the rules.

But the concept of a quiet carriage - a space in which to relax and enjoy a journey without unnecessary noise - is a perfectly valid and desirable one. I would even take it further than the current rules, and insist that children and laptops were also barred from those spaces.

People usually get offended on the few occasions where I have asked people to be quiet - tough, read the bloody signs People usually do not follow the rules of the quiet coach as they are ignorant of the signs or just cannot be bothered to follow the guidelines. I've seen people talking on their phones underneath a Quiet Coach sign and it's always funny pointing the sign out to them

I wouldn't go as far as to put an outright ban on laptops and children, it's not someone's fault if the booking engine gives them seats in the quiet coach due to the train being really busy (as I have seen a few times). Laptops are not generally an issue (as long as the sound is off and the new mail sounds doesn't play every few minutes or so)

 

[Flamingo]

Because it doesn't get obeyed and it can't be enforced. Simples.

Wrong on both counts.

 

[krisk]

Enforced? How exactly. Take the phone off them?

I ask someone not to use their phone. They ignore me and carry on. Then what?

Do we call the police, confiscate season tickets? Then that person writes in and says your staff member was rude etc so that comes back to me.

Ban the QC

 

[Squaddie]

I wouldn't go as far as to put an outright ban on laptops and children, it's not someone's fault if the booking engine gives them seats in the quiet coach due to the train being really busy (as I have seen a few times). Laptops are not generally an issue (as long as the sound is off and the new mail sounds doesn't play every few minutes or so)

The sound of someone constantly tapping on a laptop keyboard can be just as irritating as the tinny sound of someone's headphones. And the sound of children's voices, even in normal conversation, is one I could well do without on a train journey. But I accept that there are limits to what can be done on the UK's rail network, as there are usually so few carriages in a train.

Ban the QC

Demanding that something be banned because it is sometimes disregarded is nonsense. Should we also "ban" tickets, because some people try to get away without buying them?

 

[WestCoast]

Enforced? How exactly. Take the phone off them?

I ask someone not to use their phone. They ignore me and carry on. Then what?

Do we call the police, confiscate season tickets? Then that person writes in and says your staff member was rude etc so that comes back to me.

Ban the QC

Completely illogical IMO. The quiet coach costs TOCs absolutely nothing to implement and caters to a segment of their customers who want a low noise environment.

If someone wants to disobey the guidelines, then that's just their own rudeness and may or may not be addressed. By no means is there one of those passengers on every InterCity journey sitting in the quiet coach though! So, why on earth spoil something that costs the TOCs nothing and keeps passengers happy?

 

[Flamingo]

Enforced? How exactly. Take the phone off them?

I ask someone not to use their phone. They ignore me and carry on. Then what?

Do we call the police, confiscate season tickets? Then that person writes in and says your staff member was rude etc so that comes back to me.

Ban the QC

I refer the honourable member to my previous answer. You can make a condition where they are unable to continue their call, I have found that repeating "This is the mobile phone free carriage" over and over, loudly, as close to their handset as you can get, usually works, and the extra noise is not objected to by other passengers as they want the selfish git to shut up.

As regards the complaint, if your managers are that spineless, then they are even worse than mine.

 

[Lewisham2221]

I disagree with the concept of the quiet coach. Always have, always will. You're using public transport, you need to tolerate the public. I dislike shopping in supermarkets when there's a lot of children around, I don't lobby the supermarkets for a child free zone, I either tolerate them or go shopping at a time when I'm less likely to be inconvenienced by them.

 

[krisk]

I refer the honourable member to my previous answer. You can make a condition where they are unable to continue their call, I have found that repeating "This is the mobile phone free carriage" over and over, loudly, as close to their handset as you can get, usually works, and the extra noise is not objected to by other passengers as they want the selfish git to shut up.

As regards the complaint, if your managers are that spineless, then they are even worse than mine.

Then that person writes in and says I was rude or intimidating

If it exists then so be it but personally I rather they didn't

 

[WestCoast]

I disagree with the concept of the quiet coach. Always have, always will. You're using public transport, you need to tolerate the public.

The railway is now run like a business and any decent business provides customers with what they want if it's feasible (or what the business thinks they want).

There is a demand for quiet coaches, otherwise they wouldn't exist. The railway in many areas competes directly against the private car, why should it not try and cater to those who want to travel in peaceful surroundings and maybe get some work done? I am not hugely fussed on a journey under 2 hours, but over that If I am travelling on my own I like a bit of quiet to relax or get on with some work.

Sure, it's public transport, but that doesn't mean passengers have to put up with certain types of behaviour from adults who should know better. Tolerance can only go so far, respect has to also come into it. It's a two way street, too many people know their rights, but not their responsibilities.

I dislike shopping in supermarkets when there's a lot of children around, I don't lobby the supermarkets for a child free zone, I either tolerate them or go shopping at a time when I'm less likely to be inconvenienced by them.

You're not cooped up in a small enclosed space for hours on end in a supermarket and neither have you paid for any transport. Honestly, if the train companies can't designate just one quiet carriage without people making a huge fuss out if it, I really despair. I accept issues arise when the train is rammed full or people don't notice the sign, but is the concept really that hard to tolerate?

 

[Lewisham2221]

You're not cooped up in a small enclosed space for hours on end in a supermarket and neither have you paid for any transport. Honestly, if the train companies can't designate just one quiet carriage without people making a huge fuss out if it, I really despair. I accept issues arise when the train is rammed full or people don't notice the sign, but is the concept really that hard to tolerate?

Ok, so maybe the comparison with a supermarket wasn't the best. But the point I was trying to make is that there are lots of things that people do in public places that irritate others, but nothing is, or can practically, be done about them. Don't get me wrong, excessively noisey people on public transport (or in any other confined space) annoys me too, but surely the solution to this should be the use of common sense and asking people who make excessive noise to quieten down a little. If someones tinny headphone music is driving you mad, either politely ask them to turn the volume down slightly or move to a seat slightly further away from them.

Why should an issue arise only when the train is rammed full? If I'm travelling alone, I like to sit by myself, where possible, not sharing a double with somebody. I could be on a train where there are no empty doubles available in 'noisy' coaches, but plenty in the quiet coach. Why should people who want to travel in almost complete silence be able to excercise their preference, whilst somebody else cannot excercise theirs?

 

[Greenback]

Why should an issue arise only when the train is rammed full? If I'm travelling alone, I like to sit by myself, where possible, not sharing a double with somebody. I could be on a train where there are no empty doubles available in 'noisy' coaches, but plenty in the quiet coach. Why should people who want to travel in almost complete silence be able to excercise their preference, whilst somebody else cannot excercise theirs?

But you can! You have the choice to sit alone in a double seat, and not make a lot of noise, or sit somewhere else and make a noise! It would be your decision entirely.

Similarly, there may be people who want to sit ina quiet carriage, but they can't because it is full!

Regardless of the scenarios that are being created to try and justify making a noise in the quiet carriage, or to try and justify doing away with the facility completely, what is the big deal about one carraige out of four or five being designated as a more peaceful environment?

 

[Lewisham2221]

But you can! You have the choice to sit alone in a double seat, and not make a lot of noise, or sit somewhere else and make a noise! It would be your decision entirely.

Similarly, there may be people who want to sit ina quiet carriage, but they can't because it is full!

Regardless of the scenarios that are being created to try and justify making a noise in the quiet carriage, or to try and justify doing away with the facility completely, what is the big deal about one carraige out of four or five being designated as a more peaceful environment?

Because that then leaves 40%-50% of the train unavailable to the average Joe, standard class passenger who might want to pass the time on their (equally as long as the person sitting in the quiet coach getting a 'benefit' for no extra charge) journey by listening to music via headphones, chatting to the person/people they are travelling with or making a phone call, whatever someone else's view of how important that conversation may be.

 

[transmanche]

Because that then leaves 40%-50% of the train unavailable to the average Joe, standard class passenger who might want to pass the time on their (equally as long as the person sitting in the quiet coach getting a 'benefit' for no extra charge) journey by listening to music via headphones, chatting to the person/people they are travelling with or making a phone call, whatever someone else's view of how important that conversation may be.

But there's no reason why you can't listen to music or chat to travelling companions in the quiet coach - you can do both without disturbing people.

 

[WestCoast]

If someones tinny headphone music is driving you mad, either politely ask them to turn the volume down slightly or move to a seat slightly further away from them.

There's nothing to say they can't make that noise though, one person's excessive noise will be barely noticeable to another. Plus, people are becoming increasingly reluctant to ask certain 'characters' to quieten down in fear of getting a mouthful of abuse or worse.

If you're in the quiet coach, the expectation or guideline is that noise should be kept to a minimum and therefore you may have other passengers and staff who will object to excessive noise as well as you.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

Because that then leaves 40%-50% of the train unavailable to the average Joe, standard class passenger who might want to pass the time on their (equally as long as the person sitting in the quiet coach getting a 'benefit' for no extra charge) journey by listening to music via headphones, chatting to the person/people they are travelling with or making a phone call, whatever someone else's view of how important that conversation may be.

It depends on where you're travelling, most of my longer distance trips are on Virgin, where only 15%-25% of the standard class accommodation are designated quiet coaches. For the new 11-car Pendos, it's just one coach out of seven.

 

[Greenback]

Because that then leaves 40%-50% of the train unavailable to the average Joe, standard class passenger who might want to pass the time on their (equally as long as the person sitting in the quiet coach getting a 'benefit' for no extra charge) journey by listening to music via headphones, chatting to the person/people they are travelling with or making a phone call, whatever someone else's view of how important that conversation may be.

I'm not sure about your maths. 1 carriage out of 4 is 25%, 1 coach from 5 is 20%. At worst, someone who does not wish to be in a quieter environment have 75% off the accommodation to choose from.

Also, no one is banned from the quiet coach. Anyone can sit there, they are just asked not to do certain things.

Talking is not banned, as long as it is quiet (hence the original question in the thread title, which I am against).

I don't see that the rights of those who want a quiet environment are greater or inferior to those who want to enjoy music, use a phone or have a louder conversation. Indeed, it seems logical to offer alternative environments so that the two groups can be kept apart and so reduce the chances of aggravation, arguments and unpleasantness for all when there is conflict between the two types of passenger.

 

[Lewisham2221]

But there's no reason why you can't listen to music or chat to travelling companions in the quiet coach - you can do both without disturbing people.

And I can have a phone conversation without disturbing people...

There's nothing to say they can't make that noise though, one person's excessive noise will be barely noticeable to another. Plus, people are becoming increasingly reluctant to ask certain 'characters' to quieten down in fear of getting a mouthful of abuse or worse.

If you're in the quiet coach, the expectation or guideline is that noise should be kept to a minimum and therefore you may have other passengers and staff who will object to excessive noise as well as you.

As I said, I also object to excessive noise, but different people are always going to have differing views on what is excessive.

re: 40%-50%......
Notice I said standard class. So thats 25% taken up by First Class (who have paid a premium, so fair play) and 25% percent taken up by people who want to tell others what is and isn't acceptable for them to do when they've paid the same fare.

 

[Greenback]

And I can have a phone conversation without disturbing people...

As I said, I also object to excessive noise, but different people are always going to have differing views on what is excessive.

Exactly right. You may not think you are disturbing someone with your phone call, but to the perosn who is trying to sleep, read or work, you might be.

Which is why it is easier to say that certain things should not be done in the environment of the quiet carriage.

re: 40%-50%......
Notice I said standard class. So thats 25% taken up by First Class (who have paid a premium, so fair play) and 25% percent taken up by people who want to tell others what is and isn't acceptable for them to do when they've paid the same fare.

I still disagree with your maths. First Class can be disregarded as part of the equation if we are talking about Standard Class ticket holders. So if we have five Standard Class carriages and one is a quiet coach, that is 20% of the available occupation that someone wiht headphones should avoid (if they want to luse their headphones - they can still choose to use the coach and do something else, like use a kindle).

And let's be fair here, it's the TOC that has decided that passengers shall be requested to observe the quiet coach. Other passengers are just trying to enforce what has been advertised.

 

[Squaddie]

In Japan it is not only forbidden to use a mobile phone in a train carriage but socially unacceptable to do so - anyone wishing to make or receive a phone call on a train will go to the vestibule, without having to be asked. I once witnessed someone using a mobile phone on a local train in Tokyo and the (unspoken) atmosphere was so thick you could have cut it with a knife. I actually went cold and sweaty with embarrassment, and kept my eyes towards the floor until the horror was over.

Perhaps that's off the end of the scale, but it does demonstrate why quiet carriages are necessary in the UK: whereas the Japanese philosophy is that you should never do anything that might inconvenience or disturb anyone else, the British attitude is that you should be able to do exactly what you want without regard for anyone else.

 

[krisk]

Agree with that last statement totally.

 

[WelshBluebird]

Perhaps that's off the end of the scale, but it does demonstrate why quiet carriages are necessary in the UK: whereas the Japanese philosophy is that you should never do anything that might inconvenience or disturb anyone else, the British attitude is that you should be able to do exactly what you want without regard for anyone else.

Oh come on.
Its talking on a phone, not anything else!

Some people will moan at anything, and when it comes to travelling on public transport and (shock horror) having to share space with other people, some people will find anything to complain at (someone earlier in this thread posted about a passenger who told him he couldn't watch something on his phone, even though there was no noise anyone else could hear coming from the headphones).

 

[SS4]

You're not cooped up in a small enclosed space for hours on end in a supermarket and neither have you paid for any transport. Honestly, if the train companies can't designate just one quiet carriage without people making a huge fuss out if it, I really despair. I accept issues arise when the train is rammed full or people don't notice the sign, but is the concept really that hard to tolerate?

Only really by the holier than thou crowd. I've noticed that most of the arguments for getting rid of the quiet zone are personal such as "Why should I give up a seat to make a call?" instead of "Is my call going to inconvenience others in the coach?"

Getting rid of the quiet coach should be a non-starter but I'd certainly accept a silent coach it's easier to delineate.

 

[CC 72100]

I'd have said that the quiet coach is an easy concept and I generally aim for the quiet coach. I don't see any major problems, normally it's self-policed, and acts as a calm(er) environment, tempting people who would drive off the roads.

Don't sit in there if you're going to be making a phone call every 5 minutes, or if you do need to make a call or 2, go to the vestibule - it's more considerate and probably private for yourself, as otherwise everyone's going to be listening to your conversation.

So no, it shouldn't be the silence coach. That would never work. It's pretty simple, just do what you like as long as it doesn't disturb your neighbours around you. Texting and listening to music is fine providing the person next to you wouldn't notice it noise-wise.