At some of those stations the layout just isn't conducive to barriers, Blackheath for example, and Brixton must be one of the most dilapidated stations in the country so no chance of barriers there.
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Your suggestions for the next Southeastern franchise
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At some of those stations the layout just isn't conducive to barriers, Blackheath for example, and Brixton must be one of the most dilapidated stations in the country so no chance of barriers there.
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Alteran Ancient
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I get no beef when dealing with RPOs, but the wrong people do get treated like borderline criminals when they really should be focusing their efforts on people going out of their way to cheat the system. I know that RPOs don't have it easy.
I'll stop there, otherwise I'll be veering wildly off-topic.
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Neither do TFL where it's impractical to or too costly for the benefit it'd give, for example Penge West and Anerley. There are lots of suburban stations unlikely to have barriers regardless of who runs the service. Conversely, there are lots of stations run by DfT franchises which have installed barriers. It's not as straightforward as one does, one doesn't.
theageofthetra
Established Member
Not enough. The problem though is that the narrow platforms cause congestion and delay dispatch. The whole station is a disgrace for Z2 and needs complete rebuilding with full accessibility and proper Underground interchange.
I use Brixton quite often and I've never seen any revenue checks there, how would it work with oyster?
I agree that the station is a disgrace, I'm not sure how much can be done to improve it though considering the location?
Bromley boy
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theageofthetra
Established Member
The lack of disabled access may mean they have no choice.
Or force closure? There is obviously the Victoria Line and frequent buses to Herne Hill. I can't see how it will ever be step free.
Bromley boy
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No chance of either.
Many, many stations do not have step free access with no plans to introduce it.
There’s an interactive map on the network rail website showing planned accessibility improvements. Brixton is not mentioned:
https://www.networkrail.co.uk/communities/passengers/station-improvements/access-for-all/
I'm not suggesting that it should close, a dilapidated station is better than no station at all. Ideally there would be platforms on the LO line but the cost would obviously be phenomenal.
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urpert
Member
It’s a very important interchange onto the Victoria Line for we tubeless hordes. I’d hate to think what the impact on Victoria tube station would be if Brixton NR closed.
Soon didn't mean immediately, but maybe it won't be made public. Let's imagine there's a hiccup in the re-franchising process. Luckily the recent DA gives enough time for this, but the announcement of the winning bidder will inevitably be put back by several weeks.
I agree that "hold the front page" was possibly misleading. I was using it in the context of the leisurely pace of the Department, which is why I also said soon. Soon being DfT soon, of course.
I don't know when an official announcement will be made. No doubt preferably when everyone's eye is somewhere else.
Alteran Ancient
Member
Either way, they may be waiting for the Heathrow stuff to die down before they go public with the next bombshell.
theageofthetra
Established Member
Are you suggesting it could be run by a government body (not necessarily TFL)?
Not at all. They'll need all hands on deck to take over GTR.
Class 466
Established Member
This may be linked to it: https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-44671423
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2018/07/01/govia-thameslink-will-stripped-rail-franchises-forced-give-passengers/
Reports from various outlets that GTR could/will have the franchise taken off them in the next 2 weeks if things don’t get better. This would no doubt have an effect on the SEF.
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2018/07/01/govia-thameslink-will-stripped-rail-franchises-forced-give-passengers/
Reports from various outlets that GTR could/will have the franchise taken off them in the next 2 weeks if things don’t get better. This would no doubt have an effect on the SEF.
In what way ?
OxtedSignaller
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If Govia lose the TSGN franchise I cannot see a way they will be allowed to win another franchise so soon it would be hypocrisy.
Wouldn't that be anti-competitive ? If Govia put in the strongest bid then they should win on merit. If they were excluded because due to political motivation then they would have a strong case for an appeal.
What about Stagecoach ? Should they also be excluded ?
What about Stagecoach ? Should they also be excluded ?
Class 466
Established Member
That would then just leave the ones I want to win!
It’s an interesting situation where that could happen. I assume if there’s only one bidder the competition gets scrapped. And given the entire process has been so big on change from the past decade I’d be surprised if Govia got it at all, very rarely do franchises go back to the incumbent nowadays.
Considering Alstom has been/is under investigation with the Serious Fraud Office and were fined for bribery and corruption it kinda shows how much the Government actually cares about a bidders history. Even if Govia lose they will get another franchise down the line. Remember the problems FCC had with Thameslink ? They still get awarded franchises. FirstGroup also had back to back franchises.
One of the few things I agree with on this forum is that the franchise system is broken. It's a huge money-go-round and with the limited number of passport holders it is just as much a TOC-go-round too.
Personally I don't care who 'wins'; nothing changes.
One of the few things I agree with on this forum is that the franchise system is broken. It's a huge money-go-round and with the limited number of passport holders it is just as much a TOC-go-round too.
Personally I don't care who 'wins'; nothing changes.
Mikey C
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It would look ridiculous though. It's not as if we're talking about two completely different franchises (Southeastern and say the WCML or Trans Pennine), GTR currently run the franchise directly next door to the Southeastern one, if they get kicked off one it would be horrendously embarrassing (politically and for the whole franchising process) for them to win the other straight afterwards.
Class 466
Established Member
Especially as Thameslink is so intertwined with the SE franchise- Southeastern provide half the crew for TL Kent services and crew most of the Tonbridge- Redhill shuttles (that should transfer in my opinion- as it’s clear GTR have completely disregarded it).
Just the other day Southeastern revenue staff were patrolling a Luton - Rainham service I was on checking tickets. I’m not entirely sure how all this will work out when it’s operated by two separate companies- but one hopes it’ll incentivise some sort of competition to provide a decent service compared with the current lacklustre effort on both parts in North Kent.
So the bid should be determined politically ?
If Govia put in the best bid and it got rejected then the DfT will be in an embarrassing position. What if Stagecoach won the bid and then screwed the pooch again ? Why should they win as they are in a similar position as SE. I'f not sure that distance between franchises make much of a difference. What would happen if Alstom get found guilty of Fraud ? The DfT are surely aware of the allegations against them.
I think it would be more embarrassing if the worst bid was awarded and it went wrong. If the bid gets awarded based on any political motivation then there would be fallout and it would be a greater mockery of the franchise process.
The best bid should win.
Mikey C
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The best bid though is only the best bid if it is delivered
Can Govia be trusted to deliver what they promise for Southeastern? It's not as if the current running of the franchise is so exceptional that they have goodwill on their side...
I think they have done well with Southeastern. Granted GTR has gone up the creek but the franchises are being run totally different. I think that the management contract that GTR have has directly contributed to this debacle. Southeastern are currently propping up GTR with their Drivers and also covering training. With the current SE franchise I can't really see anything that has gone wrong that would been seen as detrimental to their bid.
If GTR lose their franchise then would SE still cover their work ? What incentive would they have ? If they lost SE. What would the new franchise do in terms of providing Drivers and training for the other TOC ?
The best bid should win but nobody can determine if that gets delivered or not. Stagecoach screwed up - How can they be trusted again ? Govias' reputation is in the toilet - political suicide and then what if the Abellio bid is exceptionally poor and looks like it will fail from the start ?
Whoever gets it will still get vilified and pilloried regardless.
If GTR lose their franchise then would SE still cover their work ? What incentive would they have ? If they lost SE. What would the new franchise do in terms of providing Drivers and training for the other TOC ?
The best bid should win but nobody can determine if that gets delivered or not. Stagecoach screwed up - How can they be trusted again ? Govias' reputation is in the toilet - political suicide and then what if the Abellio bid is exceptionally poor and looks like it will fail from the start ?
Whoever gets it will still get vilified and pilloried regardless.
Class 466
Established Member
The people and staff of SE make it work, the trains themselves and presentation of stations is appalling. That’s partly down to a string of Direct Awards and extensions on a contract that was originally down to end in April 2012.
Thankfully the 465s appear to be going. Regardless of who takes the franchise.
The people and staff do make it work but they are representative of how Govia is running the franchise. Credit where credit is due. Govia failing at GTR is being blamed on the TOC, Govia succeeding at SE being credited on staff. :/
The string of Direct Awards is mostly down to London Bridge and the Thameslink project needing continuity throughout and various dealings within the franchising process. Govia have certainly been rewarded for their efforts that's for sure.
I have a flick through the ITT and it looks to be the same generic contract that always gets issued. I've never known a TOC to do something off their own back and generally only commit to what is required.
The people and staff do make it work but they are representative of how Govia is running the franchise. Credit where credit is due. Govia failing at GTR is being blamed on the TOC, Govia succeeding at SE being credited on staff. :/
The string of Direct Awards is mostly down to London Bridge and the Thameslink project needing continuity throughout and various dealings within the franchising process. Govia have certainly been rewarded for their efforts that's for sure.
I have a flick through the ITT and it looks to be the same generic contract that always gets issued. I've never known a TOC to do something off their own back and generally only commit to what is required.
To those saying Brixton station could not see barriers due to space constraints or a revamp - there's a big redevelopment project around the station that could be used to fund and include a revamp. But will a DfT let franchise be interested in that? TfL would as they could link to the tube, bus networks and land holdings.
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