Your suggestions for the next Southeastern franchise

[Alteran Ancient]

I didn't have much of an opinion of SE until a few years ago - I didn't see them as incompetent (I wasn't calling for their head on a spike unlike the rest of Kent's entitled commuters), but helpless as the incumbent who was expected to run trains through a bottleneck of a London terminal (London Bridge) before it was crippled to make way for the Thameslink program.

Since Statham took over a few years ago, however, I have started to appreciate that they are trying. There's only so much they can do, and there's only so much I would expect them to live up to a short term direct-award contract knowing there's a real chance they won't have it in a few years' time. They've overseen a mid-life refresh of their mainline trains (which now look quite nice on the inside and outside), whilst making sure that the majority of services run. They've also been doing a better job at communicating with passengers on Twitter and keeping track of OOU toilets on departure boards.

I've even seen Statham out and about several times - I've seen him on the SE service from Blackfriars to Herne Hill in the afternoons, and I've also seen him manning the ticket barriers at Bromley South, helping little old ladies through the gates. I didn't see Charles Horton even once when he was MD of Southeastern.

I'll go with whatever because at the end of the day, besides putting a X on the ballot paper and getting a different government into office, I have no power over who wins the franchise next. Well, I'm not too sure about Abellio, but other than that...

 

[jnjkerbin]

Interesting twitter thread here, from the editor of London Reconnections, reporting that the DfT may NOT announce the franchise winner in August. According to him 'sources claim' that the DfT have screwed up the figures on the SE franchise specification, just like they did on the TL franchise specification and that to make matters worse, this was spotted by - you guessed it - Govia.

 

[HH]

Interesting twitter thread here, from the editor of London Reconnections, reporting that the DfT may NOT announce the franchise winner in August. According to him 'sources claim' that the DfT have screwed up the figures on the SE franchise specification, just like they did on the TL franchise specification and that to make matters worse, this was spotted by - you guessed it - Govia.

Yep, that's what I'm waiting for. They won't be announcing it in August, because the bidders will have to submit a new train plan. Good to see he's caught up.

 

[Class 466]

When the ITT was released (3 months late) in November- they said they wouldn’t be announcing a winner until the Autumn anyway. Remember the franchise doesn’t end until the 1 April - so plenty of time to fix it yet!

 

[ScotGG]

When the process begun the DfT were hugely out on planned housebuilding in the area as well and future demand. They eventually admitted they'd got it wrong. http://www.fromthemurkydepths.co.uk...-figures-and-the-next-southeastern-franchise/

 

[HH]

When the ITT was released (3 months late) in November- they said they wouldn’t be announcing a winner until the Autumn anyway. Remember the franchise doesn’t end until the 1 April - so plenty of time to fix it yet!

Winner won't be announced now until almost Xmas I'd say, which gives them just about enough time to mobilise, although I can say, from experience, that it's not an ideal time to start mobilisation.

 

[KashmireHawker]

Telegraph reporting the decision now due in November, as a result of "Mounting concerns of the bidders", with the DfT Confirming that

 

[KashmireHawker]

The story is here: https://www.telegraph.co.uk/business/2018/07/28/doubts-rail-franchise-bidders-delay-timetable/

The Government has delayed the award of the South Eastern rail franchise as concerns mount over the three transport giants vying to run one the country’s biggest train networks.

An announcement on the route, which links London with Kent and East Sussex and operates 1,900 journeys each day, was due for August, according to the Department for Transport’s (DfT) latest rail franchise schedule.

However, a spokesman for the department said a final decision on the network would now be made in November. This follows a 12-week extension granted to incumbent operator Govia earlier this year.

Questions have been raised over the three companies – Govia, Stagecoach and Abellio – bidding to run Britain’s fourth-biggest rail franchise.

Industry insiders said that with a cloud hanging over the shortlisted operators, Chris Grayling, the Transport Secretary, has a “real conundrum” over which one to pick or whether to restart the entire tendering process.

Govia’s operation of the Southern, Great Northern and Thameslink rail networks has been the subject of significant criticism.

Last month, Govia Thameslink (GTR) chief executive Charles Horton stepped down following a bungled timetable overhaul. The Office of Rail and Road (ORR) has launched an investigation into the timetable disruption and the DfT is performing its own “hard review” on the network’s problems.

“Tough action” has been promised if GTR was found to be negligent and Whitehall sources said it is likely GTR would be stripped of its licence to operate UK rail networks – forcing it to walk away from the race to recapture the South Eastern franchise.

Heidi Alexander, London’s deputy mayor for transport, said commuters were “fed up of the repeated delays, cancellations and overcrowding on suburban rail services”.

She added: “It is clear from the last few months that Govia Thameslink Railway should not remain in charge of London’s suburban rail routes any longer – the GTR franchise is not working, and they certainly shouldn’t be awarded any additional franchises in the future.”

Stagecoach, meanwhile, controversially handed back the East Coast Main Line last month after racking up losses of £200m. Mr Grayling admitted shortly afterwards that the FTSE 250 company had “got their bid wrong”.

The Commons transport committee has launched an inquiry into the line’s renationalisation. Stagecoach’s chief executive Martin Griffiths admitted to the inquiry that its East Coast bid had been “ambitious”. “Given everything that we know now, we would look at it differently,” Mr Griffiths said.

The third bid is led by Dutch state-owned rail giant Abellio in conjunction with East Japan Railway and Mitsui & Co. Abellio came under pressure from politicians in Holland over concerns it is putting Dutch taxpayer money at risk. Opposition MP Henk Nijboer has demanded fewer “foreign adventures”.

A DfT spokesman said: “We expect the next operator to deliver more services, shorter journey times, and work closely with Network Rail to focus on performance, and the innovative use of technology to improve services.”


A spokesman for Go-Ahead, Govia’s parent company, said it invested £100m in the South Eastern franchise since starting operating it in 2006. “We welcome the opportunity to continue to build on this success,” she said.

Stagecoach declined to comment and Abellio did not respond to a request for comment.

 

[ScotGG]

Still the hope then that Grayling goes and TfL can gain the Metro routes and prevent another poor DfT franchise forced on the area

 

[CeeJ]

I hope the franchise isn't further delayed, the commuter routes desperately need rolling stock investment - whether it's replacing the 465s/466s or majorly refurbishing them to include air conditioning (and adding more stock to allow for more carriages).

 

[theageofthetra]

I hope the franchise isn't further delayed, the commuter routes desperately need rolling stock investment - whether it's replacing the 465s/466s or majorly refurbishing them to include air conditioning (and adding more stock to allow for more carriages).

They're going (as I suspect will the 376's- unless they can be massively upgraded)

Whatever comes in will need in cab monitors, SDO & effective aircon. A walk through design will be an almost certainty.

The DFT/NR will be desperate to get rid of the 1000's of monitors which need endless maintenance and cause enough issues with dispatch.

 

[CeeJ]

They're going (as I suspect will the 376's- unless they can be massively upgraded)

Whatever comes in will need in cab monitors, SDO & effective aircon. A walk through design will be an almost certainty.

The DFT/NR will be desperate to get rid of the 1000's of monitors which need endless maintenance and cause enough issues with dispatch.

I understand it's part of the franchise spec, so am looking forward to seeing the proposed trains. My worry is if DfT decide to re-do the whole process, as that could mean at least another two summers with the Networkers!

 

[urpert]

Though from various press releases posted up thread it seems like either Alstom (Stagecoach) or Hitachi (the other two) are ready to go the second the agreement is signed.

 

[HH]

Telegraph reporting the decision now due in November, as a result of "Mounting concerns of the bidders", with the DfT Confirming that

Mounting concerns over the bidders.

The recent issues around GTR (none of the timetables on that bid were compliant), might give you a clue as to why...

 

[DenmarkRail]

Mounting concerns over the bidders.

The recent issues around GTR (none of the timetables on that bid were compliant), might give you a clue as to why...

I don’t understand why this is an issue though... the operators would be managed separately, just owned by a parent company...

Anyway, who else would bid!? No one with less problems...
Arriva - Northern chaos

I suppose it may be a good time for new operators.

 

[HH]

I don’t understand why this is an issue though... the operators would be managed separately, just owned by a parent company...

Anyway, who else would bid!? No one with less problems...
Arriva - Northern chaos

I suppose it may be a good time for new operators.

You've picked up the wrong message - it's not that they don't like the bidders, it's that they don't like the bids. The bidders have had to stay in after school until they get the answer right.

 

[DenmarkRail]

You've picked up the wrong message - it's not that they don't like the bidders, it's that they don't like the bids. The bidders have had to stay in after school until they get the answer right.

I thought the reason was that they are worried that the bidders other operations were too ‘snowed under’ with other problems for another franchise to be added to their collection?

 

[HH]

I thought the reason was that they are worried that the bidders other operations were too ‘snowed under’ with other problems for another franchise to be added to their collection?

Not at all. The issue is very specific to this franchise.

PS Stagecoach don't have many problems with being snowed under these days (maybe they should be considered favourites for that reason?).

 

[DenmarkRail]

Not at all. The issue is very specific to this franchise.

PS Stagecoach don't have many problems with being snowed under these days (maybe they should be considered favourites for that reason?).

Just incase it is a bidder problem, and not a franchise problem:
Stagecoach - messed up ECML
Abellio - Dutch government angry or something
Arriva - Northern
GoVia - timetable on GTR

But what are the specific franchise problems?

Which new bidders could turn up? My guess:
DSB / SJ

 

[HH]

Just incase it is a bidder problem, and not a franchise problem:
Stagecoach - messed up ECML
Abellio - Dutch government angry or something
Arriva - Northern
GoVia - timetable on GTR

But what are the specific franchise problems?

Which new bidders could turn up? My guess:
DSB / SJ

Arriva are not involved. No new bidders will be involved. This is a limited re-bidding of a specific part of the bid only. Officially, political considerations are not given weight during bid evaluation and I think DfT have learned the lessons of attracting judicial reviews.

 

[frediculous]

Not at all. The issue is very specific to this franchise.

What issue is that?

 

[hwl]

Arriva are not involved. No new bidders will be involved. This is a limited re-bidding of a specific part of the bid only. Officially, political considerations are not given weight during bid evaluation and I think DfT have learned the lessons of attracting judicial reviews.

We can but hope...

 

[Mikey C]

If you exclude every bidder that has had some sort of major crisis or PR disaster with a previous franchise somewhere, that wouldn't leave many bidders left....

 

[swt_passenger]

Still the hope then that Grayling goes and TfL can gain the Metro routes and prevent another poor DfT franchise forced on the area

I think you’re dreaming if you think any of that would happen so quickly as to affect the present plan. Transfer of routes from GA to TfL was in planned for about 4 or 5 years...

 

[Shug]

Gone very quiet over this franchise, heard a rumour that there might be a year extension granted to SE, anyone else hear anything?

 

[Class 466]

Gone very quiet over this franchise, heard a rumour that there might be a year extension granted to SE, anyone else hear anything?

Nope - Franchise ends on 1st April 2019 as planned. Bids are being reviewed so you won’t hear much now until the October/November announcement.

 

[Shug]

Nope - Franchise ends on 1st April 2019 as planned. Bids are being reviewed so you won’t hear much now until the October/November announcement.

Cheers

 

[Alteran Ancient]

Actually somewhat looking forward to the announcement in a few month's time. I have no beef with the incumbents and I'm somewhat fond of Statham as an MD, unless they go in the direction of the rest of GTR. Stagecoach/Alstom could be interesting, but I have no opinion on Abellio and friends.

Regardless, we will find out in a few months.

 

[yorksrob]

South Eastern seems to have been one of those increasingly rare things - a quiet franchise.

 

[ScotGG]

On a national level? Probably says more about most national papers.

Locally there's issues such as rising anti social behaviour and crime at stations. Stabbings etc which cannot help entice passengers.

Another short term extension isn't beyond the realms of possibility if rumours of bid issues are correct. it'd be about the fourth since 2012 and continue the malaise and lack of long term planning in the franchise area as the Networkers get worse and worse.