Yet another violent assault!

[Antman]

Would some "dry trains" solve some of the problem?

Probably not, the problem is usually the amount people have drunk before boarding

 

[redbutton]

This s NOT "anti social behaviour".

It is serious criminal behaviour.

Yes, but many criminal justice systems around the world have found that if you vigorously police "minor" anti-social crime (public drunkenness, graffiti, petty theft, fare dodging, etc), then the "major" crime rate goes down as a result. It's generally the same "unsavoury characters" that start with petty crime and escalate over time.

Unfortunately, this country seems to be taking the opposite approach with toothless ASBOs and community orders, if the police are even made available to patrol and respond to "minor" incidents.

I'd challenge government ministers to go visit some of the places mentioned in this thread on a Saturday night, then see if they still support cutting justice system and social services funding come Monday.

Well wishes to the TE and bystander in this incident; I hope the offender gets prosecuted to the fullest extent of the law.

 

[SS4]

Would some "dry trains" solve some of the problem?

Doubt it since it's likely they'd already be drunk and I don't see how it would be enforced especially given what happened in this thread

As for the guard/ticket examiner thing surely it's important for a news report to be factually accurate?

 

[Flamingo]

Would some "dry trains" solve some of the problem?

There are already bylaws in place that cover being drunk on the railway (and laws about public drunkenness in general), but these are almost never enforced. Indeed, some platform staff and BTP actively herd rowdy drunks on-board trains to get them off their patch.

 

[me123]

All Scotrail trains are dry after 9pm (I think with the exception of the Sleeper, when it was still in Scotrail's hands). I have no idea if it's made any difference - I haven't been doing that much late night traveling.

 

[tsr]

Indeed, some platform staff and BTP actively herd rowdy drunks on-board trains to get them off their patch.

This now won't be allowed to happen with any train I am involved in running, with very limited exceptions (eg. accompanied on whole journey by BTP / last train from a very remote station / etc.). If somebody boards a train of their own accord, that is their choice (clouded by alcohol-impaired judgment or not), and if there is an serious incident then they have placed themselves at risk to some degree should there be a problem during something like an emergency evacuation. However, I will not allow anyone else to make that decision for them, and then leave them unaccompanied on a train, when anything could still conceivably occur to the service.

If that means that the drunks have to sober up on a station concourse overnight but away from the trains themselves, then so be it. It is hard enough dealing with those people who willingly board and then could potentially cause a safety risk in the event that an incident is being dealt with.

 

[XC90]

What are the charges? Hopefully attempted murder ( or its Scottish legal equivalent).

Highly unlikely. Probably wounding with intent or something less. It's all about the accused and not the victim.

I'd be surprised if he got more than a year in the pokey. Not that he will be too bothered, probably just a home from home

 

[me123]

It will be two counts of attempted murder.

It's always difficult to say, but based on looking at a few previous cases, in reality we're looking at a 9-20 year sentence, with at least one case I've seen of an indefinite detention with release decided at time of parole. And those cases have seen only one victim.

 

[Flamingo]

This now won't be allowed to happen with any train I am involved in running, with very limited exceptions (eg. accompanied on whole journey by BTP / last train from a very remote station / etc.). If somebody boards a train of their own accord, that is their choice (clouded by alcohol-impaired judgment or not), and if there is an serious incident then they have placed themselves at risk to some degree should there be a problem during something like an emergency evacuation. However, I will not allow anyone else to make that decision for them, and then leave them unaccompanied on a train, when anything could still conceivably occur to the service.

If that means that the drunks have to sober up on a station concourse overnight but away from the trains themselves, then so be it. It is hard enough dealing with those people who willingly board and then could potentially cause a safety risk in the event that an incident is being dealt with.

When one is in charge of an eight-car HST and dispatching at one end of it, it's hard to see what's going on the other end. It's not unknown for the drunks to be put on at the front so the train is well out of the station before the guard is aware of the commotion in a previously quiet carriage...

 

[tsr]

When one is in charge of an eight-car HST and dispatching at one end of it, it's hard to see what's going on the other end. It's not unknown for the drunks to be put on at the front so the train is well out of the station before the guard is aware of the commotion in a previously quiet carriage...

Same applies when I am dealing with a 12 coach 377. You learn where other people put the drunks when you are at a major station. There is actually often a pattern, from what I've found. Fortunately this mainly seems to happen at the origin station in a lot of cases - for me, anyway.

 

[Merseysider]

Would some "dry trains" solve some of the problem?

Might reduce the problem but does nothing to stop idiots already drunk boarding. Especially if said idiots can act sober if challenged.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

Highly unlikely. Probably wounding with intent or something less. It's all about the accused and not the victim.

I'd be surprised if he got more than a year in the pokey. Not that he will be too bothered, probably just a home from home

And free food & shelter

 

[380101]

It will be two counts of attempted murder.

It's always difficult to say, but based on looking at a few previous cases, in reality we're looking at a 9-20 year sentence, with at least one case I've seen of an indefinite detention with release decided at time of parole. And those cases have seen only one victim.

The accused was charged with 1 assault to severe injury, 2 counts of assault and remanded in custody. The other 2 persons we're charged with 2 counts of assault each and released on bail.

Sadly this will more than likely result in a summary trial in the Sheriff court with a sentence of less than 3 years.

I had the BTP travel on the Largs train I worked last night from Paisley. However they left the train at Kilwinning.

 

[Nevillehill]

The Balloch line trumps the lot. I used to hate working it. You would encounter the absolute dregs of humanity on a daily basis. It didn't matter if it was a Monday afternoon or a Saturday night - the drug addicts, alcoholics and thugs from Renton and Alexandria would always be out in force making TE's lives a misery with no help from the BTP.

I hope the TE makes a full and speedy recovery.

Two teenage girls one about 12 hassled me last Saturday, asking for money and what was in my bag, they got on at Lenton and off at Alexandria, the Balloch train is ideal for visiting Loch Lomond, wouldn't mind the women in the office at Balloch is safe, then I read your message.
low life scum they should open Borstals up.

 

[170401]

The accused was charged with 1 assault to severe injury, 2 counts of assault and remanded in custody. The other 2 persons we're charged with 2 counts of assault each and released on bail.

Sadly this will more than likely result in a summary trial in the Sheriff court with a sentence of less than 3 years.

I had the BTP travel on the Largs train I worked last night from Paisley. However they left the train at Kilwinning.

I'll be surprised if any custodial sentences are handed out.

I recently heard a violent assault on a Conductor at Linlithgow in front of many witnesses last year led to the accused walking free from court a few weeks ago with no kind of punishment whatsoever.

The TOC's, unions and BTP really need to start speaking up for staff in the face of such pathetic sentencing.

 

[Antman]

I'll be surprised if any custodial sentences are handed out.

I recently heard a violent assault on a Conductor at Linlithgow in front of many witnesses last year led to the accused walking free from court a few weeks ago with no kind of punishment whatsoever.

The TOC's, unions and BTP really need to start speaking up for staff in the face of such pathetic sentencing.

There are some quite pathetic sentences handed out but on a more reassuring note a thug who used a catapult to fire a bulbearing into a bus drivers face (thankfully he has since recovered) because the bus wasn't going where he wanted it to was jailed for six years.

 

[gingerheid]

Doesn't use of a knife usually result in a stiff sentence? When I lived in Scotland judges really didn't like knives...

 

[Nevillehill]

There are some quite pathetic sentences handed out but on a more reassuring note a thug who used a catapult to fire a bulbearing into a bus drivers face (thankfully he has since recovered) because the bus wasn't going where he wanted it to was jailed for six years.

Send them to borstal , ,

 

[PaxmanValenta]

Quoted from the article, for the benefit of those unable to click links (or spend data)...

Makes you wonder if ticket/ revenue inspectors should be issued with flak jackets like 'The police are.

 

[455driver]

Doesn't use of a knife usually result in a stiff sentence? When I lived in Scotland judges really didn't like knives...

Not in England it doesn't, it was supposed to with MR Bliar talking all tough but actually doing very little.

 

[me123]

Doesn't use of a knife usually result in a stiff sentence? When I lived in Scotland judges really didn't like knives...

Even possession of a knife can land you a prison sentence in Scotland - actual use of the knife will undoubtedly do so.

 

[howittpie]

Am currently on 1551 VTEC Peterborough to Leeds service that has been delayed due to train manager being assulted and waiting replacment. My thoughts are with the staff and hope he recovers ok.

 

[aarongaming100]

The Balloch line trumps the lot. I used to hate working it. You would encounter the absolute dregs of humanity on a daily basis. It didn't matter if it was a Monday afternoon or a Saturday night - the drug addicts, alcoholics and thugs from Renton and Alexandria would always be out in force making TE's lives a misery with no help from the BTP.

I hope the TE makes a full and speedy recovery.

I live in Renton.... I fortunately had only one incident of a junkie ****ing battering me in a vestibule

 

[XC90]

TEs have commercial responsibilities only and, as a rule, get the book thrown at them if there are instances of them having hid in the back cab and a fight kicks off in the saloon (although I'm of the opinion they're ticket sellers not bouncers).

Rubbish. Any member of train crew can seek refuge in the cab, front or rear, if they feel they are in danger. No TOC expects them to intervene and put themselves in danger. That's why they pay the BTP.

 

[380gk]

I'm not lying or talking rubbish XC90, the first thing a TE is asked if an incident kicks off is why you weren't in the saloon at the time of the incident. It does go against you if you aren't patrolling the train - that's a fact.

For the record, I'm meaning hiding in the back cab and not doing revenue then a fight breaking out, not hiding if a fight breaks out.