Yet Another Idea for XC...

[swt_passenger]

No, that isn't going to happen. All indications are that the DfT want HSTs off the network, including those currently operated by CrossCountry. They would not allow CrossCountry to lease GWR HSTs.

Might be about the only thing the DfT and Aslef agree on. I agree we’ll more likely see them off XC much earlier than planned.

 

[class397tpe]

Might be about the only thing the DfT and Aslef agree on. I agree we’ll more likely see them off XC much earlier than planned.

The XC ones are lovely, but sadly you can tell the age and the ride quality difference Vs a Voyager.
Shame they will probably be going soon - they are awesome at soaking up passengers and not feeling cramped - much nicer on a full HST Vs a full Voyager because there's so much more interior space. Wish they could get more than 2 sets out a day so they could double up more voyager diagrams!

 

[507020]

Also just to add, the TfW 158s are likely not to be going to GWR, as 175s will be released first to go to Northern, to in turn release via cascade more 150s or 158s to GWR, which will then replace the HSTs.

Also the lease dates around HSTs can be overcome with DfT intervention.

No. The 175s will be released first once a few 197s enter service, but whether they go anywhere or not, they will certainly only be used to strengthen an existing fleet and no other DMUs will be freed up as a result, especially not from Northern. 153s and 155s really need to be scrapped so a few TfW 150s and 158s (excluding the fire damaged ones which will be scrapped immediately) may replace those but the rest will go wherever they are needed, which means many to GWR for obvious reasons, but SWR will also need a 158 to replace the one that crashed and realistically they are likely to be split up between as many operators as are in need of more Sprinters.

 

[JonathanH]

SWR will also need a 158 to replace the one that crashed

They don't. They cut services to Bristol which means that they can cope with one less unit.

 

[Neptune]

They don't. They cut services to Bristol which means that they can cope with one less unit.

It appears that some people can’t get their heads around this reduced requirement for rolling stock. It doesn’t matter how many times it’s pointed out.

 

[DanNCL]

It’s honestly difficult to predict what’ll happen stock wise with XC. The Avanti 221s would make sense, but we know that sense and the DFT don’t go together.

As for service changes, if Newcastle - Reading ever returns I think it should only run south of York. TPE have already caused enough of a headache with terminating platform capacity in Newcastle when they switched to 802s that don’t fit in the west facing bays, there simply isn’t the capacity for both TPE and XC to be terminating in through platforms every hour at Newcastle, which is what would be required if Newcastle - Reading returned with anything other than 4 car voyagers. The XC Reading service also ran straight behind an LNER service with the same calling pattern in both directions north of Doncaster so it isn’t a huge loss on the ECML part of the route.

No. The 175s will be released first once a few 197s enter service, but whether they go anywhere or not, they will certainly only be used to strengthen an existing fleet and no other DMUs will be freed up as a result, especially not from Northern. 153s and 155s really need to be scrapped so a few TfW 150s and 158s (excluding the fire damaged ones which will be scrapped immediately) may replace those but the rest will go wherever they are needed, which means many to GWR for obvious reasons, but SWR will also need a 158 to replace the one that crashed and realistically they are likely to be split up between as many operators as are in need of more Sprinters.

Apart from the converted ScotRail units all remaining 153s are with TFW and will be replaced by 231s and 756s anyway. There is no pressing need to replace the 155s, certainly no more than any of the other sprinters.

Northern are believed to want to replace the 150/1s, so a transfer of 175s to Northern would partially enable that, depending on where they’d be allocated either directly or through a further internal cascade of 156s or 158s.

SWR will manage fine without an extra unit. Their DMU fleet is the one fleet they’re not short on. If they’re really that desperate for an extra DMU they could have 158889 back from EMR.

With regards to TFW’s 158s, because of the ETCS fitment transferring them elsewhere won’t be an easy task as it will require all drivers even those who already sign 158s to be retrained. As such it makes little sense for any TOC to take those over the 175s unless they have a requirement for ETCS fitted stock.

 

[Bletchleyite]

With regards to TFW’s 158s, because of the ETCS fitment transferring them elsewhere won’t be an easy task as it will require all drivers even those who already sign 158s to be retrained. As such it makes little sense for any TOC to take those over the 175s unless they have a requirement for ETCS fitted stock.

Or you just remove it again and refit conventional TPWS/AWS. As no other regional TOC will need ETCS, nor are they likely to in the lifetime of these units, this is what I would expect will happen.

 

[DanNCL]

Or you just remove it again and refit conventional TPWS/AWS. As no other regional TOC will need ETCS, nor are they likely to in the lifetime of these units, this is what I would expect will happen.

Easier said than done.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Easier said than done.

158s are too valuable to scrap, and no TOC needs ETCS other than TfW, nor will in the foreseeable future on routes 158s will work. Thus, it will either be removed or the training will take place. There is absolutely no chance of any 158s being scrapped in the next 10 years or so unless there is a serious accident that writes one off.

 

[Neptune]

Or you just remove it again and refit conventional TPWS/AWS. As no other regional TOC will need ETCS, nor are they likely to in the lifetime of these units, this is what I would expect will happen.

It’s rather more than that. The desk was rebuilt to incorporate the ETCS equipment rather than it being a bolt on. It would mean re-rebuilding the desk back to original spec.

I know a lot of people on here think everything is a quick and cheap job to fix but I honestly didn’t think you were one of them.

 

[Bletchleyite]

It’s rather more than that. The desk was rebuilt to incorporate the ETCS equipment rather than it being a bolt on. It would mean re-rebuilding the desk back to original spec.

I know a lot of people on here think everything is a quick and cheap job to fix but I honestly didn’t think you were one of them.

I'm not suggesting it will be cheap, however 158s are too valuable (because there's such a DMU shortage and a desire not to build too many new ones they effectively have the same sort of value as a brand-new DMU) and as such either that work will be done or the training will be done, whichever is cheaper.

These 158s will not be scrapped.

 

[Neptune]

I'm not suggesting it will be cheap, however 158s are too valuable (because there's such a DMU shortage and a desire not to build too many new ones they effectively have the same sort of value as a brand-new DMU) and as such either that work will be done or the training will be done, whichever is cheaper.

Training will be cheaper than rebuilding.

The key is to minimise it as much as possible, so put them in a place where the least possible amount of crews need training.

That should be the theory at least.

These 158s will not be scrapped.

100% agree they aren't likely to be scrapped and the TFW 158’s are superb internally.