Yeovil Junction and active travel - non existant.

[WelshBluebird]

As with pretty much every scheme that aims to promote choices other than driving, those who have no choice but to drive logically should support the scheme because the more people who don't have to drive you can get to choose an alternative method of transport, the less congested the roads become for those people who have to drive.

And of course, remember we are talking about choices. Having the option to walk or cycle isn't going to mean people couldn't drive if they want to! It just means those who want the choice to not drive are able to actually make that choice.

 

[Parallel]

I'm not so sure, its still a reasonable walk from Pen Mill to the Town Centre / Bus Station from there, the real problem is neither Pen Mill or the Junction are ideally suited for the town they serve, coupled with the fact the service interval on the Pen Mill line isnt that frequent and if you want onward travel to Paddington from Pen Mill you have to change at Castle Cary or Westbury anyway.

As I said up thread, if Beeching hadn't closed Yeovil Town Station itself, then Yeovil would have been a lot better served, coupled with if the line to Taunton from Yeovil hadnt been shut either, then again the town would have been alot better served we'd have more options.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 30 Dec 2023 ==

If anybody is interested, this gives a history of the stations that served Yeovil and where they were, how they came to be etc

Link

Its only about 20 minutes walk from Yeovil Pen Mill to the town centre, so whilst it’s not in the centre, it’s certainly doable for most I’d have thought - other towns/villages in the area have a similar walk, such as Westbury. The good thing about Pen Mill is that there are pavements all the way to the station making it much easier to get to over Yeovil Junction for foot passengers. The bad news is the service frequency is poor, delays are common and some of the connection times at Castle Cary/Westbury to beyond aren’t ideal.

 

[fizzwheel]

Its only about 20 minutes walk from Yeovil Pen Mill to the town centre, so whilst it’s not in the centre, it’s certainly doable for most I’d have thought

Its certainly a safer walk than attempting to walk along the road between Yeovil Junction and the town centre is, especially in the dark.

 

[HamworthyGoods]

I suppose the only even somewhat workable solution would be if the SWR Yeovil terminators went all the way to Pen Mill after Junction, assuming there is the time to get to Pen Mill and back and it doesn't interfere with the GWR service.

Of course the big issue is that Yeovil Junction is not in Yeovil at all but a small village on the outskirts with the roads to match, it's not like it's two stations in the same town like Dorchester, for example, where the distance is relatively short between stations and there are good roads/pavements between the two.

The SWR Yeovil terminators generally do.

 

[dgl]

The SWR Yeovil terminators generally do.

Ah didn't realise that, haven't been on that line for a while.

 

[randyrippley]

What all this proves is that the Beeching intention to close the Junction station and concentrate on Sherborn was correct. It's all very well that the Junction was eventually saved because the goods yard provided a larger car park, but in reality what use is a car park if the access roads are poor? Newton road is subject to collapsing mud banks, while Five Follys road is single track (Southern National gave up running that way in the 1960s because there was nowhere to pass). Junction station should be closed and the original 1860 East-to-North curve reopened, allowing direct routing from Sherborne - Pen Mill. Then assuming Pen Mill's two platforms can cope you concentrate everything on Pen Mill with Waterloo-Exeter services reversing. Could be worth considering reopening the Clifton Maybank spur at the same time to increase capacity from Pen Mill to the west

And for those saying "there's a bus service"............here's the timetable

68 - Yeovil - Yeovil Junction - Barwick

Somerset Council

bustimes.org

hardly a direct service (click the map link on the page) and useless if your commute means you arrive after 18:45

 

[yorksrob]

What all this proves is that the Beeching intention to close the Junction station and concentrate on Sherborn was correct. It's all very well that the Junction was eventually saved because the goods yard provided a larger car park, but in reality what use is a car park if the access roads are poor? Newton road is subject to collapsing mud banks, while Five Follys road is single track (Southern National gave up running that way in the 1960s because there was nowhere to pass). Junction station should be closed and the original 1860 East-to-North curve reopened, allowing direct routing from Sherborne - Pen Mill. Then assuming Pen Mill's two platforms can cope you concentrate everything on Pen Mill with Waterloo-Exeter services reversing. Could be worth considering reopening the Clifton Maybank spur at the same time to increase capacity from Pen Mill to the west

And for those saying "there's a bus service"............here's the timetable

68 - Yeovil - Yeovil Junction - Barwick

Somerset Council

bustimes.org

hardly a direct service (click the map link on the page) and useless if your commute means you arrive after 18:45

In what parallel dimension is the problem of a station being a long way from town, improved by making the station even further away from town ?

 

[randyrippley]

In what parallel dimension is the problem of a station being a long way from town, improved by making the station even further away from town ?

Four miles on a fast dual carriageway vs two miles on a narrow sunken road with unstable banks and a weight restriction.
Not much difference in time, even by bus

 

[yorksrob]

Four miles on a fast dual carriageway vs two miles on a narrow sunken road with unstable banks and a weight restriction.
Not much difference in time, even by bus

If people want to drive to Sherbourne they can already.

Better to have a decent path that people can walk or cycle.

 

[fizzwheel]

allowing direct routing from Sherborne - Pen Mill. Then assuming Pen Mill's two platforms can cope you concentrate everything on Pen Mill with Waterloo-Exeter services reversing. Could be worth considering reopening the Clifton Maybank spur at the same time to increase capacity from Pen Mill to the west

the problem with that plan is lack of parking at Pen Mill, Junction has 200 spaces, and it does get reasonably full there is no way there is room at Pen Mill for all those cars, and then if people are pushed to Sherborne by lack of parking, well that will fill up the Carpark at Sherborne which whilst bigger than Pen Mill wont accommodate all the cars that would have parked at Yeovil Junction.

( or have I missed with this option you are not advocating for closure of Junction itself ? )

What is needed is a dedicated shuttle between Pen Mill -> Yeovil Bus Station -> Yeovil Junction

Which I am pretty sure used to be run and I'm also sure it was run with at one point small Mini Busses which were based on Ford Transits which negated to some extent the narrow access via Newton Road or Two Towers Lane

OR

A dedicated trailway between Pen Mill & Yeovil Junction for cyclists pedestrians to use, there is already a cycle / footpath between Pen Mill and the site of the Old Town Station that could feed into it

 

[Krokodil]

As with pretty much every scheme that aims to promote choices other than driving, those who have no choice but to drive logically should support the scheme because the more people who don't have to drive you can get to choose an alternative method of transport, the less congested the roads become for those people who have to drive.

And of course, remember we are talking about choices. Having the option to walk or cycle isn't going to mean people couldn't drive if they want to! It just means those who want the choice to not drive are able to actually make that choice.

Indeed it's amazing how quickly "Yeovil Junction should have safe access for pedestrians" resulted in vitrolic reactions from several posters. Apparently the very mention of "active travel" is a dog whistle for an "anti car rant".

 

[Shimbleshanks]

"Active travel" is pretty much a meaningless slogan that people say when there's a gap in some (usually anti-car) rant. It has about as much meaning as "sustainability" which is currently a must-use word almost as popular as "robust" used to be. Maybe "obvious" should be a buzz-word as is the case here in the need for a shuttle bus.

I used to travel by train into and out of Bournemouth which has bus and coach stops just across the road from the station. Active, sustainable travel as a fact before it was even thought of as a robust idea.

Active Travel means: 'The station is miles away from the town centre - and we don't have the means or the will to do anything about it'.

 

[Sir Felix Pole]

Yeovil always strikes me as town that has been particularly wrecked by the motor car (Tiverton is another). Instead a building a ring-road (which could have passed near Junction station) the A30 Queensway slashes through the historic street pattern. I see that the old Town station site is now occupied by a Premier Inn (which wouldn't win any architectural prizes) and a (closed?) Wilko, but otherwise the route to Pen Mill and Junction is clear.

Noting that Yeovil isn't much smaller than Stourbridge, I'd reinstate Town station and run a shuttle - Junction / Town / Pen Mill using a battery railcar. I am quite taken with this 'Draisy' railcar which SNCF is developing.

SNCF Draisy

Many of France’s rural rail lines have languished due to low passenger demand. At SNCF, we’re working to revive them with Draisy, a very light train system that is economical, eco-friendly, and tailored to local needs.
The project is funded by the State through the France 2030 investment plan, under the leadership of Ademe, the French environment and energy management agency. Draisy takes a holistic approach—incorporating rolling stock, infrastructure, operations and even regulatory issues—to slash costs and supplement TER regional trains with a solution designed specifically for rural communities.

Anyway, back to reality...

 

[dgl]

Yeovil always strikes me as town that has been particularly wrecked by the motor car (Tiverton is another). Instead a building a ring-road (which could have passed near Junction station).

But they have loads of new traffic lights that's just as good as a new ring road , Yeovil has the issue that all through routes go through the town
which holds up everything, the A37, A30 and A303 ideally need linking together without going through the town, although the shops in the centre probably like the through traffic.
It's funny to think that the "less important" line has the more convenient station with vastly better local facilities, there's even a McDonalds within a short walk now at what was the Nissan/Kia dealer.

 

[21C101]

Yeovil always strikes me as town that has been particularly wrecked by the motor car (Tiverton is another). Instead a building a ring-road (which could have passed near Junction station) the A30 Queensway slashes through the historic street pattern. I see that the old Town station site is now occupied by a Premier Inn (which wouldn't win any architectural prizes) and a (closed?) Wilko, but otherwise the route to Pen Mill and Junction is clear.

Noting that Yeovil isn't much smaller than Stourbridge, I'd reinstate Town station and run a shuttle - Junction / Town / Pen Mill using a battery railcar. I am quite taken with this 'Draisy' railcar which SNCF is developing.

SNCF Draisy



Anyway, back to reality...

It would still need to be crewed by two train staff on normal wages. Meet NR standards, pay track access charges etc. Also Yeovil Town is still actually on the edge of town albeit next to the town centre.

As the road between the two is a minor road with few delays its actually faster. What is needed is a more frequent bus aervice. It ran half hourly until Covid but is now hourly

As with so many places the problem is that the bus and rail are not integrated.

End bus deregulation and mandate that the rail franchisee operates the service, connects properly and runs throughout the times the train is running including evenings and sundays, is liveried in the rail livery and advertised as an integral part of the rail service and the problem goes away.

Northern Ireland shows what can be done if rail and bus are integrated properly and if express buses (and the bus stations eg Armagh) are treated as rail substitutes with facilities at bus stations you would expect at rail stations (ticket office at which you can buy rail and bus tickets, heated, waiting room with gates to bus "platforms", full information, tea/coffee/snacks (automated).

 

[fizzwheel]

I see that the old Town station site is now occupied by a Premier Inn (which wouldn't win any architectural prizes) and a (closed?) Wilko, but otherwise the route to Pen Mill and Junction is clear.

Thats not quite right, the Old Town Station site is where the Cinema / Bowling Complex is now. The trackbed to the Junction goes through the now privately owned Yeovil Golf Club which I suspect would make putting the railway back its original alignment complex / expensive

You're correct about the route from the Old Town Station site to Pen Mil being clear and there's already an established footpath on that alignment

Here is a link to the area on the Side by Side maps

Link

 

[61653 HTAFC]

It's still there - although it involves a magical mystery tour of the Yeovil suburbs if you're going station to station.

A Beatles and Bowie reference in one. Well played, sir!

 

[randyrippley]

the problem with that plan is lack of parking at Pen Mill, Junction has 200 spaces, and it does get reasonably full there is no way there is room at Pen Mill for all those cars, and then if people are pushed to Sherborne by lack of parking, well that will fill up the Carpark at Sherborne which whilst bigger than Pen Mill wont accommodate all the cars that would have parked at Yeovil Junction.

Simple solution to that: with the Pittards Leather factory next to Pen Mill station closed (it went into administration in September this year) there is now a perfect opportunity to clear the site and create as much car park space as is needed.
It's the flat topped building in the middle of this Google maps link

Yeovil

www.google.com

 

[yorksrob]

A Beatles and Bowie reference in one. Well played, sir!

Classic rock

 

[Via Bank]

Indeed it's amazing how quickly "Yeovil Junction should have safe access for pedestrians" resulted in vitrolic reactions from several posters. Apparently the very mention of "active travel" is a dog whistle for an "anti car rant".

Hear hear. In this country we are appalling at even delivering a basic level of amenity for anything other than driving, and then bleat about how no-one will ever walk or cycle. In this we're as bad as the US.

There is no excuse not to build at least a pavement, and preferably a cycle track, on the road connecting Yeovil Junction and the town centre. There's not exactly a space constraint. If it's hilly, that means you need it more, not less, because people will be willing to deal with hills if they don't have to walk in the carriageway with cars doing 40mph. If well-built, it will last a long time and be a good investment. You cannot complain about a lack of demand when there is zero provision at the moment.

And I've just checked the bus timetable. An hourly service with the last bus at 18:20 is frankly embarrassing. They should be timed to connect with departures from the station, and run from first train to last train. No excuses.

 

[stuu]

And I've just checked the bus timetable. An hourly service with the last bus at 18:20 is frankly embarrassing. They should be timed to connect with departures from the station, and run from first train to last train. No excuses.

That's the reality of bus services in most rural areas of England. 1820 is quite late compared to many services

 

[randyrippley]

There is no excuse not to build at least a pavement, and preferably a cycle track, on the road connecting Yeovil Junction and the town centre. There's not exactly a space constraint. If it's hilly, that means you need it more, not less, because people will be willing to deal with hills if they don't have to walk in the carriageway with cars doing 40mph. If well-built, it will last a long time and be a good investment. You cannot complain about a lack of demand when there is zero provision at the moment.

this is the road in question
where are you going to fit the cycle track / pavement? Note that if you try cutting the bank back the soft mud-sand will collapse

Google Maps

Find local businesses, view maps and get driving directions in Google Maps.

www.google.com

 

[aleph_0]

this is the road in question
where are you going to fit the cycle track / pavement? Note that if you try cutting the bank back the soft mud-sand will collapse

Google Maps

Find local businesses, view maps and get driving directions in Google Maps.

www.google.com

I think you two are talking at crossed purposes.

There are options. If a bank needs supporting or building up, then sheet piling or other techniques could be used.

Alternatively, getting my crayons out here, there are options for a parallel route or other alignments. There is a track going above the Copse - could this be enhanced/extended. Could also do a route below.

Can of course argue this is difficult, or not cost-effective, but there are always options.

 

[yorksrob]

this is the road in question
where are you going to fit the cycle track / pavement? Note that if you try cutting the bank back the soft mud-sand will collapse

Google Maps

Find local businesses, view maps and get driving directions in Google Maps.

www.google.com

Coming back to my example in Kirkby Stephen, the footpath is quite a way away from the road itself.

 

[Taunton]

As I said up thread, if Beeching hadn't closed Yeovil Town Station itself, then Yeovil would have been a lot better served, coupled with if the line to Taunton from Yeovil hadn't been shut either, then again the town would have been a lot better served we'd have more options.

If the line to Taunton hadn't shut we wouldn't have the new A3088 main road, nowadays the principal road into the town and built almost wholly for some miles along the old Taunton line alignment. I suspect it handles close to the same quantity of traffic each week that the Taunton line did overall for all the time that it was open!

Pen Mill station was for long the easternmost building in the town, facing open country. The Yeovil sewage works has more recently been built on the east side of the station, which rather invalidates it for much housing development.

Bear in mind that the original Beeching proposal was to close Yeovil Junction, and make Sherborne a few miles to the east the railhead for the town, which had the advantage (at the time) of an established bus service along the A30 road. I wonder how many who drive from the town still choose to park at Sherborne rather than at the Junction. From Pen Mill, for example, it takes less time to drive to Sherborne station than to the Junction.

I long felt that Yeovil Town station should have been retained as a dead-end, with both Salisbury-Exeter and Westbury-Weymouth services running in and out of it by the various connections previously in place. It would have worked with Swiss-style 60-second reversals (with the same crew), but we don't seem able to do time-saving reversals in the UK.

 

[fizzwheel]

Here's your walking route if you fancy it...

Link

The bit of Yeovil is hard to describe, but Newton road sits in a "hollow" off to one side is a steep drop off and the other side is a wall of rock formed of the local stone. Then once you get to the top of Newton road, just before the junction with Two Towers Lane, the road cuts through a gap in the local stone that's been carved out, from there its a steep road down to Barwick, again the roads in a hollow here, with steep banks either side.

I'd imagine its not a simple or cheap task to cut room for a pavement through there, the roads fine to cycle on and I have done so many times

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 1 Jan 2024 ==

I wonder how many who drive from the town still choose to park at Sherborne rather than at the Junction. From Pen Mill, for example, it takes less time to drive to Sherborne station than to the Junction.

I live on the West Side of the Town by the Football club if you know it.

The traffic in Yeovil can be horrendous depending on when you travel, I think the point I'm making is depends on where you start your journey and when you make it as to whether the Junction or Pen Mill involves a shorter journey time.

Again depending on time of day its taken me 35 - 40 minutes to get to Sherborne.

I know we'd not have the A3088 now, but again depending on the time of day the traffic on the roads from yeovil to taunton is heavy and if it was an option I'd have gladly taken the train rather than driving and gettting snarled up in the traffic through Henlade which always seems gridlocked

 

[Basil Jet]

Personally, I think the answer would be to increase the Paddington to Exeter/Paignton semifasts to hourly and divert them west of Castie Cary via Yeovil. Then terminate the Waterloo services at Pen Mill via Junction. Then everything would serve Pen Mill and a much faster and Intercity standard service would be provided to Crewkerne, Axminster, Honiton and Cranbrook as well as providing direct intercity services from Paddington to Exeter Central.

I mostly like the idea, but wouldn't that leave no service at all between Castle Cary and Taunton without doubling back to Reading or travelling via Exeter? And wouldn't it drastically slow and reduce service from Taunton to London?
Also, I think your idea would be improved by reinstating the curve from Sherborne to Pen Mill and closing Yeovil Junction completely.

 

[fizzwheel]

I really not following the suggestions to close Yeovil Junction ?

Its the busiest in terms of passenger numbers ( based on the stats I found on Wikipedia ) its clearly being used and I'm not sure the challenge of Pedestrian access / lack of integrated bus service is a reason to close it either...

Templecombe - 86.276
Sherborne - 0.155 Million
Yeovil Junction - 0.170 million
Yeovil Pen Mill - 0.147 million
Crewkerne - 0.158 Million

What did surprise me was the usage for Pen Mill, I wouldn't have said it was that busy... although I think it does get used heavily in the summer with people going to and from Weymouth as when I've used it the trains are busy in the summer on a Saturday

 

[PTR 444]

Thought i’d post this here rather than creating a new thread, but is there any reason why an all-day rail shuttle can’t run between Yeovil Junction and Pen Mill?

It could even be formed of a 3-car 159 unit splitting from a Waterloo - Exeter service at Yeovil Junction and vice versa. Westbound trains arrive at YVJ at xx38 each hour, so assuming the train is formed of 6 or 9 cars, 3 of those can split and run to YVP and back, before joining up with the next xx29 departure back to London. That allows 51 minutes for a round YVJ - YVP trip which is more than enough time. With 3 platforms at Pen Mill, there should also theoretically be enough room to fit in the SWR shuttle and both directions of the GWR service at the same time (if that ever goes up to hourly).

 

[devon_belle]

With 3 platforms at Pen Mill, there should also theoretically be enough room to fit in the SWR shuttle and both directions of the GWR service at the same time (if that ever goes up to hourly).

Not sure about the rest of your question, but Pen Mill has only 2 platform tracks. One of the tracks has a platform face on both sides.