XC Voyager Refurbishment

[Wyrleybart]

Are they not totally incompatable with the XC Voyager fleet though?

Not totally incompatible no. But would need wonga spending on them to convert them to 220/221 spec, and that would depend on DfT underwriting the conversion and lease of those three.
Theoretically it would make all bar one of the class 221s up to five cars - maybe 136 140 and 141 - assuming the car from 137 is repaired and returned to make it back up to a five car unit.

 

[fgwrich]

I don't know the ins and outs, just something I have heard and would certainly fit with the need to outsource the transfers back from Litchurch Lane to Central Rivers.

Have the drivers seats been changed as part of the refurb the same as the saloon seats have been?

"Union Issues" tends to be a term thrown around by those who are guessing.

In my opinion there is no such thing as a union issue, the union might raise an issue related to terms and conditions, safety, rostering etc... but those terms and conditions issues, safety issues, rostering issues etc.

There is one issue I can immediately think of that the union might have raised regarding these moves, but it's relating to facilities at Litchurch Lane rather than the trains themselves, and I'm not going to post it because it's purely a guess on my part.

The reality could be as simple as the return working being a test run of some sort.

Anyway, regarding yesterdays move with the Power Cars and partially the reason why the Zephir was used for the launch was because it's been sat for so long and for assurance purposes Rail Adventure were requested to haul it rather than operate it under its own power. The return unit was also operated by Rail Adventure and ran under its own power.

This is your answer. Rail Adventure are doing the moves to and from Litchurch Lane. As Central Rivers does the mechanical stuff, and Litchurch Lane does the refurbishment, it makes sense for Alstom to start them up at Central Rivers.

 

[skyhigh]

Who knows?

If you don't know, why make random guesses?

 

[Rick1984]

Are the refurbished Avanti ones to get the new interior? (Assuming they have some of them) Seems a wasteful if so.

 

[dk1]

Are the refurbished Avanti ones to get the new interior? (Assuming they have some of them) Seems a wasteful if so.

To be fair it was ten years ago that they received refurbishment.

”Over the next two years, a total of 136 Voyager (Class 220) and 176 Super Voyager (Class 221) cars are being refurbished by Alstom in Derby, including an additional 12 trains added to the CrossCountry fleet following their release from Avanti West Coast.”

 

[bnsf734]

According to the latest Modern Railways the refurbished ex Avanti 221s are the last to go through the program. They will need more work than the others to standardise the seat layout.

 

[dk1]

According to the latest Modern Railways the refurbished ex Avanti 221s are the last to go through the program. They will need more work than the others to standardise the seat layout.

Makes so much sense to have a common fleet.

 

[Rick1984]

According to the latest Modern Railways the refurbished ex Avanti 221s are the last to go through the program. They will need more work than the others to standardise the seat layout.

That makes sense

 

[The_Train]

If you don't know, why make random guesses?

Because it is fun, especially on here where life is taken far too seriously

Anyway, it wasn't random. It was logical. They are driven in to Litchurch Lane in their old makeup by XC drivers but not driven out in their new makeup. They could have been driven back to Central Rivers where a group (what is the collective noun for union officials?) of union bigwigs completed a full inspection of the new seat cover in the drivers cab and deemed it to be acceptable, after a 72 hour deliberation about the colours. Of course, the seat being the issue is a random guess as it could easily have been an issue with how pink the cab ends look..........

 

[357]

If you don't know, why make random guesses?

Because some people (a) like to appear knowledgable or (b) want to bash unions

 

[TT-ONR-NRN]

To be fair it was ten years ago that they received refurbishment.

Avanti didn’t even exist ten years ago.

 

[357]

Avanti didn’t even exist ten years ago.

The first class coaches were done first from memory, under Virgin.

 

[TT-ONR-NRN]

The first class coaches were done first from memory, under Virgin.

The first class coaches had the seat covers replaced by Virgin, who brought in the leather, but Avanti did all of the interior repainting, adjustments and deep cleaning.

 

[swt_passenger]

According to the latest Modern Railways the refurbished ex Avanti 221s are the last to go through the program. They will need more work than the others to standardise the seat layout.

Surely the ex-Avanti units being done last has been expected since the info started being drip fed by XC around about post #65?

 

[TT-ONR-NRN]

According to the latest Modern Railways the refurbished ex Avanti 221s are the last to go through the program. They will need more work than the others to standardise the seat layout.

And to turf out the shop.

 

[NEDdrv]

I don't know the ins and outs, just something I have heard and would certainly fit with the need to outsource the transfers back from Litchurch Lane to Central Rivers.

Have the drivers seats been changed as part of the refurb the same as the saloon seats have been?.

No,drivers seats have not been done they are being done as part of a different plan

 

[dk1]

Avanti didn’t even exist ten years ago.

The fabulous Virgin of course back then

 

[TT-ONR-NRN]

The fabulous Virgin of course back then

What a beautiful time that was

 

[dk1]

What a beautiful time that was

The likes we will sadly never witness again.

 

[Mugby]

Are Cross Country actually usung the shop in the ex-Avanti sets while they still exist?

 

[sabanda]

Are Cross Country actually usung the shop in the ex-Avanti sets while they still exist?

Yes - the shops have received full XC branding and are used instead of a trolley on those sets

 

[TT-ONR-NRN]

Are Cross Country actually usung the shop in the ex-Avanti sets while they still exist?

Yes - the shops have received full XC branding and are used instead of a trolley on those sets

It actually works better than the trolley in my opinion, because the customer service staff just DO not bother to push the trolley through, and make announcements telling people to come to Coach F. If you're in Coach B, that's a LOT of people to push through. At least with the shop it's more centrally located than the static trolley.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 3 Mar 2026 ==

220033 is back out tomorrow starting with 1H14 0701 Birmingham New Street to Manchester Piccadilly.

 

[driverd]

It actually works better than the trolley in my opinion, because the customer service staff just DO not bother to push the trolley through, and make announcements telling people to come to Coach F. If you're in Coach B, that's a LOT of people to push through. At least with the shop it's more centrally located than the static trolley.

Strongly agreed. With hindsight, surely XC would agree removing the shop wasn't the best idea - what's replaced it is even less functional and, in practical terms, has simply swapped the bike storage area with the shop.

If they were planning to cut new windows into the vehicles and pop in an extra 8 seats or so, I'd have been all on favour. Sadly the luggage area tends to default to a sitting area (not least because leaving luggage well out of sight isn't favourable for anyone) and the bike storage is moved from the extreme end of the train to the (often very busy) middle. I can see the logic back in the 00's, when PIS screens couldn't easily decipher train orientation, but surely in 2026, especially considering usual passenger loadings, it makes far more sense to keep the shop.

Anyway, I digress. Has anyone seen the second refurbished unit? Do we know if the swooshy thing towards the back of the driving vehicles has been added, or are we stuck with the sharp pink:grey contrast?

 

[357]

the customer service staff just DO not bother to push the trolley through

Do you think that the reason for this the vast majority of the time might be because of this....

that's a LOT of people to push through

???

 

[BanburyBlue]

Do you think that the reason for this the vast majority of the time might be because of this....

???

From experience, there are many times where I've been on a lightly loaded XC train (it does happen!) where they still don't push the trolleys through. Totally get it on a busy train.

 

[TT-ONR-NRN]

Do you think that the reason for this the vast majority of the time might be because of this....

???

For goodness sake

I’m talking about the many times this happens when the train is not crowded.

 

[Russel]

For goodness sake

I’m talking about the many times this happens when the train is not crowded.

I have to agree here.

As a regular XC passenger, there is little to no consistency with catering regardless of how full or empty the train is.

 

[LittleRedTrain]

Strongly agreed. With hindsight, surely XC would agree removing the shop wasn't the best idea - what's replaced it is even less functional and, in practical terms, has simply swapped the bike storage area with the shop.

I've found one big benefit of the big, ex-shop, luggage area is that it's the only place you can stow a folding mobility scooter for those mobility-impaired passengers who need to use one.
The normal luggage racks are simply inadequate for this, and XC won't let you book a wheelchair space for one unless you sit in it for the entire journey (which they simply are not designed for from a safety or comfort perspective).

I suspect the same goes for pushchairs.

 

[occone]

I'd bet XC know the shop is better for passengers, but that standardisation of their fleet is better for them. XC do not serve their passengers, the passengers are an afterthought and an annoyance to them.

 

[Hairyspotter]

I believe this is due to a union issue with the refurbishment work (not my original assumption of a route knowledge issue as that was put to bed by them being driven into Litchurch Lane under their own power)

Or it could just be the reality of the situation which is that the ROSCO deals with the refurbishments and as such the unit technically goes off-lease whilst the work is carried out. As such, the ROSCO contracts a firm to move its units to where they need to be, in the case of 22x using RailAdventure.

The same process applies to the XC 170 refurbishment program where one of the other firms moves them to and from Crewe LNWR.

So absolutely nothing to do with Trade Unions and everything to do with the reality of business on the railway network.