XC Voyager Refurbishment

[AJDesiro]

Are there any versions of the FISA LEAN with tray tables that are actually able to support a laptop? When I've come across them they largely haven't. Given it is difficult to guarantee a table seat - or frankly any seat at all - on these trains it really is a must. As with any service of this length.

Class 444s in First Class, 458/4s in both Standard and First, and the refurbsihed EMR and XC 170s all have a much larger seat-back table than the FISA LEANs on the FLIRTs and 196s. If I recall correctly this larger design of table was able to support my laptop with no problems. Considering the XC 170s got the larger table variant, I'd be surprised if the Voyagers didn't.

 

[danshrimp]

Class 444s in First Class, 458/4s in both Standard and First, and the refurbsihed EMR and XC 170s all have a much larger seat-back table than the FISA LEANs on the FLIRTs and 196s. If I recall correctly this larger design of table was able to support my laptop with no problems. Considering the XC 170s got the larger table variant, I'd be surprised if the Voyagers didn't.

That's very good to know!

 

[voyagerdude220]

I've always been a big fan of the seats installed on the ex Avanti 221s in First Class. I don't think they need changing/refurbishing at all. I think that whilst comfortable, the original Cross Country First Class seats are simply very worn down and knackered.

 

[tfw756rider]

I've always been a big fan of the seats installed on the ex Avanti 221s in First Class. I don't think they need changing/refurbishing at all. I think that whilst comfortable, the original Cross Country First Class seats are simply very worn down and knackered.

Are they actually different seats? As in, completely replaced/changed to different bases/frames at some point?

 

[voyagerdude220]

Are they actually different seats? As in, completely replaced/changed to different bases/frames at some point?

I don't know to be honest. They could well be the same but I find the leather material itself to be very comfortable.

 

[tfw756rider]

I don't know to be honest. They could well be the same but I find the leather material itself to be very comfortable.

Ah, so they're likely better just from the padding and covering.

 

[voyagerdude220]

Ah, so they're likely better just from the padding and covering.

And I guess possibly (I'm guessing) not as worn due to less usage/wear and tear compared to the older original Cross Country seats.

Would I be right to guess that the Standard Class seats on the ex Avanti 221s are also more liked/comfortable (I realise this is all subjective!) compared with the original Cross Country 220/221s?

 

[ainsworth74]

It sort of goes with the terrain considering the nature of the thread but if we could avoid going too far down the rabbit hole of seat discussion unless it's directly relevant to the Voyager refurb that would be appreciated!

 

[Russel]

Argh, I’ve just realised that the plan to cover the “cigarette stained” centre panel with the spotlights is to… paint it dark grey. I hope that the lighting tubes are replaced and standardised as well (although hopefully not as white as fitted to the dentist waiting room hitachi fleets), but the current set up is a multitude of shades and looks a dingy mess.

The centre panel being grey will be a decent improvement, as much as I don't mind the design of the current interior, ignoring the state XC have let it deteriorate to, the different shades of beige and cream does look very 90s.

 

[Sparks807Evo]

I note earlier in the thread there was mention of engines switching off en-route akin to the 185’s ECO mode. Is anything being done as part of this refurb, or is anything future mod planned, to address the number of engines idling? The engine fumes at New Street owed increasingly due to the Voyagers is surely something that needs to be addressed given the growing focus on environmental impact.

 

[The_Train]

You are correct that the 196s don't have armrests between the seats. The refurbished XC 170s use the same FISA LEAN seat frame (slightly different cushions, though), with armrests; it's just that WMT didn't specify armrests for the 196s. The Voyager refurbishment renderings show the seats with armrests.

I've attached a couple of images from an Alstom press release of the first and standard class interior renderings below for immediate reference:

Those seats look really comfortable for a Scotland to the South West journey Be comfier to sit on the floor, which is quite lucky when it comes to XC as you have more chance of a seat on the floor than an actual "seat"

 

[GoneSouth]

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Those seats look really comfortable for a Scotland to the South West journey Be comfier to sit on the floor, which is quite lucky when it comes to XC as you have more chance of a seat on the floor than an actual "seat"

Yea they don’t look great in that image. I’ll reserve judgement until I’ve done Bristol to York sat in one. But, at the rate things are moving right now with this refurb I’ll never have the opportunity as I’ll be retired before they finish one unit! What’s taking so long? This was announced well over a year ago and nothing visible yet.

 

[fgwrich]

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Yea they don’t look great in that image. I’ll reserve judgement until I’ve done Bristol to York sat in one. But, at the rate things are moving right now with this refurb I’ll never have the opportunity as I’ll be retired before they finish one unit! What’s taking so long? This was announced well over a year ago and nothing visible yet.

“We are sorry to announce that the Cross Country Voyager Refurbishment has been delayed by approximately….. Please listen for further announcements. We are sorry for the delay that this will cause to your journey”

Delays. Cross Country. The two go hand in hand surely! In all seriousness though, the first will always be the slowest as we know from other refurbishments. Though the XC refurbs do seem to be somewhat shrouded in mystery.

 

[Wyrleybart]

“We are sorry to announce that the Cross Country Voyager Refurbishment has been delayed by approximately….. Please listen for further announcements. We are sorry for the delay that this will cause to your journey”

Delays. Cross Country. The two go hand in hand surely! In all seriousness though, the first will always be the slowest as we know from other refurbishments. Though the XC refurbs do seem to be somewhat shrouded in mystery.

Are there delays ? I heard back in June that 220033 was stood down until October 2025 and it was assumed that would be the first XC voyager refurb. Well 220033 was apparently split up into individual cars at the Greatest Gathering in August with some suggestion that is was being evaluated for the prototype refurb. I don't recall any date given for the first refurb to enter service, so is it actually late ?

 

[ashley84]

I note earlier in the thread there was mention of engines switching off en-route akin to the 185’s ECO mode. Is anything being done as part of this refurb, or is anything future mod planned, to address the number of engines idling? The engine fumes at New Street owed increasingly due to the Voyagers is surely something that needs to be addressed given the growing focus on environmental impact.

I was on a Voyager recently where exactly that was happening. Pulled into station, engine stopped. Sometimes it restarted when we set off again and sometimes it didn't (and presumably the other coaches took up the strain.) I assumed it was a fault...

 

[CR165022]

Are there delays ? I heard back in June that 220033 was stood down until October 2025 and it was assumed that would be the first XC voyager refurb. Well 220033 was apparently split up into individual cars at the Greatest Gathering in August with some suggestion that is was being evaluated for the prototype refurb. I don't recall any date given for the first refurb to enter service, so is it actually late ?

220033 also had it vinyls stripped on one car, as well as apparently having it's interior stripped out, so it would suggest that at least something is happening.

 

[NEDdrv]

I was on a Voyager recently where exactly that was happening. Pulled into station, engine stopped. Sometimes it restarted when we set off again and sometimes it didn't (and presumably the other coaches took up the strain.) I assumed it was a fault...

All XC voyagers are now fitted with IESS (start/stop) software. Certain stations engines are shut down but can be restarted by driver. Engines can also restart at later station by software.

 

[800Travel]

All XC voyagers are now fitted with IESS (start/stop) software. Certain stations engines are shut down but can be restarted by driver. Engines can also restart at later station by software.

Ah I wondered what this was about

 

[Bornin1980s]

I had my carriage's engine briefly shut down today, taking with it some of the lights. Is that supposed to happen?

 

[NEDdrv]

I had my carriage's engine briefly shut down today, taking with it some of the lights. Is that supposed to happen?

Don’t think that should happen, voyagers can now cross feed electricity to more than one coach per set (if 2 engines shut down both will be supplied from other vehicles)

 

[Sparks807Evo]

Thanks all for the responses re: IESS. Really good to hear that is being done. Admittedly not been on.a Voyager for a few months so was unaware.

 

[davidrockyroad]

There are only 58 Voyager diagrams vice 60 in the December 2025 timetable. This does mean there will be fewer double Voyagers out and about, but it also means that these units can be sent off for their refurbishment.

 

[dk1]

Good to see the XC 220/221 fleet have just been awarded another Golden Spanner.

 

[DaveyJones]

Good to see the XC 220/221 fleet have just been awarded another Golden Spanner.

Honestly there's not many units in that category...

 

[dk1]

Honestly there's not many units in that category...

Still a great accolade to have. Pendolinos in second. I’m so chuffed the excellent 755/4s got gold too.

 

[route101]

Was on ex Avanti 221 today and much nicer than the native XC voyagers. The shop was being used, I didn't see if it was a static trolley though?

 

[bb21]

Good to see the XC 220/221 fleet have just been awarded another Golden Spanner.

It did cause a few giggles around the room when announced , but well deserved regardless.

 

[GoneSouth]

It did cause a few giggles around the room when announced , but well deserved regardless.

Whilst they may do a good job with reliability and maintenance, we probably need a golden ticket award for passenger comfort, cleanliness and general state of repair. They wouldn’t be winning that. Golden mould award might be closer to the mark

 

[Wyrleybart]

It did cause a few giggles around the room when announced , but well deserved regardless.

I am no apologist for the fleet because I think they are awful in terms of wasted space, dull dreary saloons and the awful engine drone and vibration.

But - because they have so much redundancy, they are actually quite resilient from the operator's point of view. A really useful feature is the ability for one to drag another one home using "R&R". If the electric coupler heads don't work it is possible to run them using two pipe air brakes unlike practically any other multiple unit these days.

 

[Russel]

Good to see the XC 220/221 fleet have just been awarded another Golden Spanner.

It's deserved, to be fair, yes internally they are a mess, but reliability wise they are solid.