ValentaFan1974
Member
- Joined
- 8 Jul 2014
- Messages
- 393
The avanti sets are last in place for refurbishing. Thankfully:
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XC Voyager Refurbishment
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Travelmonkey
Member
Makes sense they were redone under the last TOC, says something that the best trains in arriva's (XC & GC) fleet are the ex avanti,
Quite like the interior but the underfloor engine for long distance journeys are unacceptable IMO. Also not enough loos.
FrontSideBus
On Moderation
- Joined
- 11 Feb 2025
- Messages
- 451
The interior reminds me of some sort of regional turboprop tbh.
Yorkshire09876
Member
Reliable - yes, they are. But as regards being comfortable I can only assume that the people who find Voyager seats comfortable have a very non-standard body shape!
I don't like them, but I can sit in them without medication, which isn't a given in modern trains
tfw756rider
On Moderation
Not enough loos?!
Absolutely nailed on to be the first time ever that anyone said that about a Voyager, lol....
Trainman40083
Established Member
Often occupied by fare dodgers.
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Yes. How often do we get "the buffet trolley can't get down the train".
the smell lol
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2 per carriage in mk1s. 2s and 3s
Trainman40083
Established Member
In some 222 carriages there are two wardrobe sized ones.
I did Edinburgh to Tamworth last Tuesday, the seats are fine, much better than what will replace them I'll confidently say, unless they use the same seats Avanti have used, but we know Arriva will go with the cheapest option, probably whatever they have used on the 170s which I do find uncomfortable.
They don't all need to be disabled toilets though, some should have been standard sized so a few extra rows of seats could have been added, though I remember reading on here somewhere that the reason they are all disabled is because Virgin originally planned to have 3 classes of travel.
Honestly this was a problem when they were first introduced but I recall certain components being moved around to resolve it and it's worked, IMO, I don't find the toilet smell noticeable, the only odours are that of 15 years of nothing being cleaned properly.
Yorkshire09876
Member
We will have to agree to differ on that!
They were awful when knew, and are a good bit worse now the cushions are knackered.
ls2270
Established Member
I have been told in the past that the reason for all the toilets being the disabled type is because at the time the 220s/221s were being ordered it wasn’t known whether this would be stipulated in the disability regulations so Virgin played safe and specified them all as disabled toilets. By the time MML ordered the 222s it was known that only one toilet per unit needed to be a disabled one, hence they specified some of the smaller type.
Trainman40083
Established Member
I wonder how many people use the disabled toilet to change a baby. That wouldn't be nice in one of the wardrobe sized ones.
I’d heard it was because Virgin XC originally planned another class in addition to Standard & Club Class on Voyagers .
Yeah, they are certainly showing their age, the refurb is well overdue!
Still, even now I'd take a Voyager seat over an IET seat.
TheSmiths82
Member
I caught one from Birmingham NS to Manchester last week. It was the usual XC experience, cramped and no where near enough carriages for the passenger load. 90 minutes was just about OK, but I think the woman who I set next to had been on the train since Bristol and she was rather grumpy! My main issue with these trains has never been about the actual trains but the routes they run on.
But still more cushion than you have when they’rerefurbished no doubt.
Definitely agree with this. The IET seats are absolute junk, no padding on them at all now and you might as well stick a park bench in standard class
Yorkshire09876
Member
What a choice! Do you prefer this crap seat, or that crap seat!
Bletchleyite
Veteran Member
In my understanding that is correct - there was going to be a "Virgin Value class" in the end coach which was originally proposed to be 3+2.
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The new seats are FISA LEAN. Not the best for legroom but not the worst for comfort. Try a FLIRT or a Class 196 if you want a go.
Yorkshire09876
Member
They'd have struggled to fit 3+2 into those tilt-profile bodyshells!
Bletchleyite
Veteran Member
Only 5cm narrower than a 720, which I guess proves the point!
. Fortunately sense was seen.
sabanda
Member
Or an SWR 444 in First - I think the headrests are the only real difference from what XC will be using!
Might have to remind myself of how springy the seats were in the 70s on first gen DMUs. That’s taking thinks to the other extreme
Ah yes, I’ve been on a 196.I have a feeling they don’t have arm rests between the seats. Hope that’s not the case as it does protect your personal space a little from spreading neighbours
You are correct that the 196s don't have armrests between the seats. The refurbished XC 170s use the same FISA LEAN seat frame (slightly different cushions, though), with armrests; it's just that WMT didn't specify armrests for the 196s. The Voyager refurbishment renderings show the seats with armrests.
I've attached a couple of images from an Alstom press release of the first and standard class interior renderings below for immediate reference:
Argh, I’ve just realised that the plan to cover the “cigarette stained” centre panel with the spotlights is to… paint it dark grey. I hope that the lighting tubes are replaced and standardised as well (although hopefully not as white as fitted to the dentist waiting room hitachi fleets), but the current set up is a multitude of shades and looks a dingy mess.You are correct that the 196s don't have armrests between the seats. The refurbished XC 170s use the same FISA LEAN seat frame (slightly different cushions, though), with armrests; it's just that WMT didn't specify armrests for the 196s. The Voyager refurbishment renderings show the seats with armrests.
I've attached a couple of images from an Alstom press release of the first and standard class interior renderings below for immediate reference:
YorksLad12
Established Member
Ah, Britain's railways. Where you get a view out of the window from a table in Standard but not First... and not on both sidesYou are correct that the 196s don't have armrests between the seats. The refurbished XC 170s use the same FISA LEAN seat frame (slightly different cushions, though), with armrests; it's just that WMT didn't specify armrests for the 196s. The Voyager refurbishment renderings show the seats with armrests.
I've attached a couple of images from an Alstom press release of the first and standard class interior renderings below for immediate reference:
And, if your lucky to be sat there in First Class with somebody behind you, it becomes a game of who dares to play with the window blind!Ah, Britain's railways. Where you get a view out of the window from a table in Standard but not First... and not on both sides
Are there any versions of the FISA LEAN with tray tables that are actually able to support a laptop? When I've come across them they largely haven't. Given it is difficult to guarantee a table seat - or frankly any seat at all - on these trains it really is a must. As with any service of this length.