XC Voyager Refurbishment

[py_megapixel]

1. Will this solve overcrowding?

Not on its own, no

3. Will we see the end of 4-car operations on Edinburgh-Plymouth?

In theory the additional Voyagers being taken on should achieve that, but I highly doubt it will be totally eliminated in practice as there will be cases where, despite the best efforts of the controllers, a single 4-car unit is the best that is available

4. Will there be automated announcements?

The Voyagers already have the equipment fitted but it's not used for some reason. It really ought to be, for accessibility reasons, and it would seem logical to get the system working at refurb, but no idea if they'll bother or not.

5. Would it be better to get brand new trains in addition or in lieu of the refurbished voyagers?

Almost certainly, but funding for that does not seem forthcoming.

 

[GoneSouth]

Sounds like there’s a fair bit of stuff on voyagers that isn’t used now or won’t be in future. Automatic announcements, tilting, and who remembers the at seat audio entertainment

 

[Mollman]

5. Would it be better to get brand new trains in addition or in lieu of the refurbished voyagers?

It would be better for a committed to plan for electrifying the core cross country routes to be agreed. This would allow for the right mix of new trains (duel voltage electric not just everything bi-mode) to be brought in slowly replacing the voyagers in 5-15 years time.

 

[Russel]

Sounds like there’s a fair bit of stuff on voyagers that isn’t used now or won’t be in future. Automatic announcements, tilting, and who remembers the at seat audio entertainment

The auto announcements and at seat audio will all be running on late 90's tech no doubt, given when the fleet was constructed, so getting any of it working again now may be easier said than done.

I do remember listening to the at seat audio though, did they every update the playlists, every time I used it I recall hearing the same things!

 

[Parallel]

The automated announcements are very occasionally in use on XC’s Voyagers as shown in the below clips, but I’ve not heard them in use myself. But as mentioned above, the system likely isn’t the most up-to-date.

(Videos show automated announcements in use)

 

[Scotrail314209]

I was on a CrossCountry Voyager between Paignton and Manchester a few months ago. We were a bit delayed and to my surprise an automatic announcement played apologising for the delay. I can’t remember the exact wording of it nor did I manage to get a recording.

 

[td97]

I was on a Voyager earlier this month which played next station automated announcements. Interestingly on a diversion route via Crewe & Wilmslow.

 

[ScotTrains]

I just watched the video that Tim Dunn posted. This refurb looks truly awful!

I've always liked the first class seats on XC. They're big and reasonably comfortable. The purple seat colour with white antimacassar looked smart.

These new thin, hard, drab grey seats are a massive downside. If they're anything like the 1st class ones on the azuma then there's no way I'll be doing any more long journeys with XC. I can only manage about 2hrs on an azuma before getting back ache!
Are the XC 1st class seats even needing refurbished? They always seemed in reasonably good condition.
I bet if they actually asked their 1st class customers what interior they prefer, nobody would pick this new refurb!!

 

[Doomotron]

I just watched the video that Tim Dunn posted. This refurb looks truly awful!

I've always liked the first class seats on XC. They're big and reasonably comfortable. The purple seat colour with white antimacassar looked smart.

These new thin, hard, drab grey seats are a massive downside. If they're anything like the 1st class ones on the azuma then there's no way I'll be doing any more long journeys with XC. I can only manage about 2hrs on an azuma before getting back ache!
Are the XC 1st class seats even needing refurbished? They always seemed in reasonably good condition.
I bet if they actually asked their 1st class customers what interior they prefer, nobody would pick this new refurb!!

It's worth noting that the current first class seats are the same as the Class 390s, which have not been changed in the latest refurbishment. I think they're making a mistakes with the new seats, even though I haven't watched Tim Dunn's video.

 

[Russel]

The automated announcements are very occasionally in use on XC’s Voyagers as shown in the below clips, but I’ve not heard them in use myself. But as mentioned above, the system likely isn’t the most up-to-date.

(Videos show automated announcements in use)

Thanks for sharing these, I've been a frequent passenger on the Voyagers since their introduction but I've never heard these used in person!

 

[Megabus]

I do remember listening to the at seat audio though, did they every update the playlists, every time I used it I recall hearing the same things!

It wasn't a playlist, it was FM radio. Which was quite often not tuned into the station that was advertised in the seat back info.

 

[Russel]

It wasn't a playlist, it was FM radio. Which was quite often not tuned into the station that was advertised in the seat back info.

Was there not some kind of pre-recorded faux live station?

 

[skyhigh]

The auto announcements and at seat audio will all be running on late 90's tech no doubt, given when the fleet was constructed, so getting any of it working again now may be easier said than done.

From memory the at seat audio equipment was removed because the space was needed for later additions (wifi maybe?) so it's no longer fitted.

 

[ashley84]

Was there not some kind of pre-recorded faux live station?

IIRc in Voyagers it was 3 pre-recorded options, plus radio 4. The pre recorded stuff had some big name hosts presenting, so could pass for something you might find on other BBC radio stations eg radio 1 or 2.
The Pendolino system was more sophisticated and more channels, I think both live and recorded.

 

[Snow1964]

Are they still doing work on the 458 EMUs?

Yes, not sure exactly where Widnes are up to with 458 refurbs, but only about 13 x 4car remaining to be done.

Tiny quantity compared to 200+ voyager vehicles

 

[Bletchleyite]

Was there not some kind of pre-recorded faux live station?

Yes, there was that too.

 

[Russel]

From memory the at seat audio equipment was removed because the space was needed for later additions (wifi maybe?) so it's no longer fitted.

Ah yes, I do recall hearing about that yes.

With the rise of unlimited mobile data, WiFi is another system they Voyagers have that is slowly becoming redundant.

 

[_toommm_]

With the rise of unlimited mobile data, WiFi is another system they Voyagers have that is slowly becoming redundant.

Maybe not on Voyagers - they may aswell be a Faraday cage with the linings on the windows. Signal abd usable Internet isn't great on IC trains in the UK, and even less so on XC.

 

[Goldfish62]

Ah yes, I do recall hearing about that yes.

With the rise of unlimited mobile data, WiFi is another system they Voyagers have that is slowly becoming redundant.

Good luck trying to get a signal through the windows!

 

[swt_passenger]

IIRc in Voyagers it was 3 pre-recorded options, plus radio 4. The pre recorded stuff had some big name hosts presenting, so could pass for something you might find on other BBC radio stations eg radio 1 or 2.
The Pendolino system was more sophisticated and more channels, I think both live and recorded.

The “radio 2 like” recording I remember listening to repeated after about 3 hours. There was almost nothing live on a Voyager, they were a cheapskate system when compared to the Pendolino as you say..

 

[GoneSouth]

Ah yes, I do recall hearing about that yes.

With the rise of unlimited mobile data, WiFi is another system they Voyagers have that is slowly becoming redundant.

Not sure about that, the voyagers do act as faraday cages and block mobile signals which make it difficult to get a decent signal a lot of the time. Internal fast WiFi might still be a good idea.

 

[Trainman40083]

Good luck trying to get a signal through the windows!

Yes that is a pane.

 

[Russel]

Maybe not on Voyagers - they may aswell be a Faraday cage with the linings on the windows. Signal abd usable Internet isn't great on IC trains in the UK, and even less so on XC.

Good luck trying to get a signal through the windows!

Not sure about that, the voyagers do act as faraday cages and block mobile signals which make it difficult to get a decent signal a lot of the time. Internal fast WiFi might still be a good idea.

I've never really noticed mobile signal to be any worse on Voyagers than any other fleet, not saying it's any good, just no worse.

I have found the WiFi to be patchy at best though, certainly not fast.

 

[duffield]

I've never really noticed mobile signal to be any worse on Voyagers than any other fleet, not saying it's any good, just no worse.

I have found the WiFi to be patchy at best though, certainly not fast.

My conclusion both from personal experience and from other people's anecdotes is that the mobile signal varies massively according to device, provider, train location and which coach and seat you are sitting in. But on the same stretch of line I definitely get a better signal on (e.g.) a 158 than a class 22x Voyager/Meridian.

In theory, if done right, with large external aerials it should always be possible to provide a better (faster and more stable) WiFi service than anyone can get directly via their mobile provider. Unfortunately, in practice the technology used will probably be too cheap and outdated to achieve this!

 

[M60lad]

Is there a reason why some trains act like faraday cages regarding mobile signals? It doesn't just affect Voyagers I've had similar problems on TPEs 185s, when the doors are open its fine but as soon as the doors close the signal goes again.

 

[Goldfish62]

Is there a reason why some trains act like faraday cages regarding mobile signals? It doesn't just affect Voyagers I've had similar problems on TPEs 185s, when the doors are open its fine but as soon as the doors close the signal goes again.

Pendolino the same, and on SWR the 450s are worse than the 458s for mobile reception.

 

[Snow1964]

Is there a reason why some trains act like faraday cages regarding mobile signals? It doesn't just affect Voyagers I've had similar problems on TPEs 185s, when the doors are open its fine but as soon as the doors close the signal goes again.

It's more to do with the windows
1) They are often smaller on modern trains
2) They often are not next to where hold phone by ear, instead there is a pillar (and some have wide pillars)
3) Glass is often coated (or tinted) to reduce glare and effect of sun warming inside (to assist air conditioning).
4) Films bonded to glass can also be a problem (often added to avoid scratching).

It is the last two, that particularly affects certain classes of trains, especially if the glass coating or film contains microscopic particles of metal. I have no idea what voyager windows are coated with, but I suspect it is a coating including metal.

 

[Kite159]

I was on former Avanti 221115 this evening and couldn't help noticing that it seemed the driving coaches had been swapped over.

The all table layout coach with shop was coach D, next to a standard class driving coach (F). Rather than next to the FC coach like I was expecting it to be.

Must cause hassle with seat reservations not matching as I was under the impression that the low density standard class coach would be coach B on the former Avanti units.

Sorry if off topic, couldn't find a thread about the transferred 221s

 

[Trainman40083]

I was on former Avanti 221115 this evening and couldn't help noticing that it seemed the driving coaches had been swapped over.

The all table layout coach with shop was coach D, next to a standard class driving coach (F). Rather than next to the FC coach like I was expecting it to be.

Must cause hassle with seat reservations not matching as I was under the impression that the low density standard class coach would be coach B on the former Avanti units.

Sorry if off topic, couldn't find a thread about the transferred 221s

I seem to recall a thread a while ago, that suggested that the unreserved coach on five car Voyagers had been changed to get round the issue. But it has been months since I last travelled on a Voyager.

 

[sprinterguy]

I was on former Avanti 221115 this evening and couldn't help noticing that it seemed the driving coaches had been swapped over.

The all table layout coach with shop was coach D, next to a standard class driving coach (F). Rather than next to the FC coach like I was expecting it to be.

The ex-Avanti sets with XC have been returned to their as-built formations, to match the native XC sets, with the shop vehicle moved back adjacent to the standard class driving car (coach F).

Virgin altered the formation of their retained West Coast Voyager sets fairly soon after the XC franchise went to Arriva.