XC issues with BOJ

[sonic2009]

Can i clarify something on a High Wycombe - Bloxwich SSR?

I travelled High Wycombe - Coventry 19/12, BOJ until Sunday.

Used 1327 Coventry - Birmingham to travel on to Bloxwich, Guard said only valid for one night BOJ, im travelling on RTN portion dated until 18/01/13, i was under the assumption you can break a journey as many times as you want until ticket expiry.

Who was right myself or the guard will explain what happened once i know if i was right or i made a mistake.

 

[Be3G]

Yep, there is no limit on the number or length of breaks (provided the ticket's within date of course, as yours was). I've broken the return portion of a journey three times myself without issues, though I can't remember if I had a ticket check on the Cross Country train I used as part of that.

 

[tsr]

To take an example, I have also broken a return journey with that type of ticket multiple times, and found that both Southeastern and Southern guards had no problems with that validity whatsoever - including one break which was around a week long. What you experienced was presumably down to XC training inadequacies, or the guard's remembering of restrictions!

 

[sonic2009]

Thanks for the input I had broken my journey at Coventry where i live, and was travelling onward to Bloxwich where my lady friend lives.

The Guard didn't agree with me at first and i explained that you can make a BOJ of more than 1 night. She asked me to pay for another ticket from Coventry as to which i politely said no as i knew i had a valid ticket. She then made a phonecall to somebody who seemed to agree with the guard.

I have both names of Guard & Person she spoke to, she then took my ticket off me without any TIR or nothing.

When i asked for this, she explained i don't have to give you one and preceded to walk through the train checking tickets.

I left it at that as she said she would be getting someone to see me at Birmimgham International, which she did which was two members of platform staff. When the guard gave me my ticket back she ripped it in half, off the train went and i proceeded with the a member of staff up to the ticket office at BHI.

The Virgin ticket staff agreed with me, and printed off the restriction, stamped it and wrote please allow travel and sellotaped my ticket together and i had no further problems.

Should i complain to XC and along what lines should i write?

 

[Baxenden Bank]

Thanks for the input
The Guard didn't agree with me at first ..... She then made a phonecall to somebody who seemed to agree with the guard.

I have both names of Guard & Person she spoke to, she then took my ticket off me without any TIR or nothing.

When i asked for this, she explained i don't have to give you one and preceded to walk through the train checking tickets.

Should i complain to XC and along what lines should i write?

Yes, you should complain, not necessarily to receive compo or an apology but so that XC starts to train it's staff properly - both on train and at 'control' if that is whom she phoned.

Imagine you were a 'little old lady', that did not know the rules and regulations. Further, imagine that, after having your ticket stolen by the guard (because that is what she did having refused to issue a receipt orTIR), your were approached by a Revenue Officer, within London Midlands Penalty Fare area - no proof of ticket having been bought, instant penalty or subsequent prosecution.

Why did she rip the ticket in half? Because she was being spiteful and knew she had been found to be incorrect?

 

[Chapeltom]

Totally unacceptable to treat a passenger like this, and that's before ripping the ticket in half. I'd definitely complain, that's just not on!

 

[221129]

Imagine you were a 'little old lady', that did not know the rules and regulations. Further, imagine that, after having your ticket stolen by the guard (because that is what she did having refused to issue a receipt orTIR)

Technically she hadn't stolen it at all. Although I do agree that you should complain.

 

[Chapeltom]

Technically she hadn't stolen it at all. Although I do agree that you should complain.

That's pedantic :roll: 'having their valid ticket stolen' is that's how the vast majority of the population would see it but of course all tickets belong to the railway. Its bad customer service at best and damn right spiteful at worst to rip the ticket in half.

 

[tsr]

Is it illegal for a member of railway staff (aside from any member of the public) to deface or destroy a ticket without good reason, it being a document provided as evidence of a contract entered into by the passenger and the relevant sellers & companies? Whilst it may remain railway property, it is surely not reasonable to remove the detail of the services required to be rendered in return for the fare paid, particularly if the passenger did not receive a payment receipt. I appreciate that once a ticket is clearly used to the fullest extent of its validity that it may then be marked as such, but this was not understood to be the case here, anyway.

 

[sonic2009]

I think she ripped the ticket in half to not allow further travel.

 

[sonic2009]

Said ticket in Question.

19/12 XC Stamp by XC Guard Banbury - Coventry

Additional circle was done by XC guard today obviously highlighting ticket stamp.

 

[VauxhallandI]

Diabolical there should be ramifications for this person.

It's embarrassing.

 

[Baxenden Bank]

Technically she hadn't stolen it at all. Although I do agree that you should complain.

Having had his ticket taken from him, what proof did the OP have that he had bought a ticket?

It is a requirement when travelling on a train to have with you at all times a valid ticket. That is why the guard should issue a Ticket Irregularity Report to the person whom otherwise she has just put into a criminal position.

Imagine the guard just flushing that ticket down the toilet and denying she had taken it from the OP. Whom would be believed by the platform staff, gateline staff, revenue officer or BTP? Passengers should not be put into that position.

 

[SS4]

You should definitely complain to prevent it happening to others in the future and because you suffered an unnecessary delay to your journey especially if you missed your connection at New Street.

Not to mention taking the ticket off you

 

[455driver]

Should i complain to XC and along what lines should i write?

Yes you should noting (as much as possible) what was said by both of you, this TMs behaviour is not acceptable and needs to be sorted.
Ripping a ticket in half (just to make a point) is not permissible either, you could have asked the ticket office to print you a new ticket as your old one had been damaged.

 

[kevinwaltets]

Good to see 455Driver agreeing that this is totally unacceptable behaviour.

I don't work in the industry but I would hope the guard was just having a bad day.

It does need reporting and the op needs to claim compensation fir the delay in travel.

Hopefully the guard can explain her bad day to her manager

 

[455driver]

Good to see 455Driver agreeing that this is totally unacceptable behaviour.

I don't work in the industry but I would hope the guard was just having a bad day.

How could I not agree with it?

On some of the threads on here I get the feeling that we are only getting half the story (and that is being embelished ) but in this case the OP is right and the TM is wrong, even I know that much and I know the square root of naff all about tickets.

The OP needs to make sure they include the names (plus the train they were on) and make it clear they were not happy about the delay caused through no fault of their own, the way they were treated and the anguish caused by the TM taking the ticket and not providing the OP with a TIR so they could complete their journey, the firther anguish caused by the TM ripping the ticket up (they can embellish that bit ), ask them is it Company policy or acceptable for staff to rip valid tickets up etc.

Dont let this go, some people let a little power go to their head.


Normal service will resume shortly!

 

[Fare-Cop]

The TM or SC should have been able to see from the stamper examination mark, which has been circled in biro, where and when that previous ticket examination was made.

Obviously the image isn't clear enough for us to read it, but if that shows that the OP had not already used the ticket on route past where this TM / SC made her check she should have accepted it, stamped it and politely moved on.

Yes, a complaint should be raised. I would keep a clear photo-copy of your ticket and copy of your letter to XC Customer Relations and submit the original ticket by recorded delivery post along with your complaint sent to:

CrossCountry Customer Relations
FREEPOST RRXU-HUEC-GLLY
Cannon House
18 The Priory Queensway
Birmingham
B4 6BS

 

[paulgreen32]

I feel sorry for guards and passengers as boj on a ticket can be a nightmare. I had a passenger going manchester eus via crewe and told me he was staying overnight a bhm wit that info i could mark cre to bhm on the ticket. After just passing out as a guard more needs to be done either to educate us or simplify tickets.

 

[Fare-Cop]

I feel sorry for guards and passengers as boj on a ticket can be a nightmare. I had a passenger going manchester eus via crewe and told me he was staying overnight a bhm wit that info i could mark cre to bhm on the ticket. After just passing out as a guard more needs to be done either to educate us or simplify tickets.

Excellent post and you clearly have used a common sense approach to help other staff and the passenger at the next ticket examination.

Unfortunately, the vast majority of travellers will not tell the staff making a ticket examination that they intend to break their journey though.

 

[sarahj]

Anytime I mark a return portion of these tickets I always ask if the punter is traveling all the way on this train today. It takes no time to ask, then mark it in the section on the back.
Guards like this give the rest of us a bad name. Sorry this happend, and glad you came across some staff who knew the rules.

But the rules are simple, as long as you finnish your journey before the exp date on your ticket, you can use it, even if your breaking your journey by 29 days. (and up to 2.30 (or 4.00) the next day as well).

 

[Be3G]

Unfortunately, the vast majority of travellers will not tell the staff making a ticket examination that they intend to break their journey though.

Anytime I mark a return portion of these tickets I always ask if the punter is traveling all the way on this train today. It takes no time to ask, then mark it in the section on the back.

When I did the breaking-journey-three-times trip I mentioned earlier in this thread, I told the first couple of guards that I was breaking my journey, but they didn't treat my ticket any differently – they just punched/signed it as usual. So I stopped bothering! It's pleasing to know therefore that some guards do have common sense.

Having said that, marking the ticket with the passenger's intended alighting point for the day could still land them in difficulty if they decide at the last minute to get off earlier for some reason, which they're entitled to do. Probably, therefore, the best thing for a guard to do is to mark the ticket as ‘[STATION PASSENGER JOINED THE TRAIN] to [NEXT STOP ON THE SERVICE]’.

 

[sonic2009]

I did mention to the guard who stamped my ticket on the 19th that i would be breaking my journey for a few days, he said that's fine.

I will write up a letter/email over Xmas and get someone off here to proof read for me.

 

[afyutr]

This thread just made me think about a recent conversation I had with SWT customer services and wondered if anyone could confirm what I was told. A group of us intended on visiting a few places on the same day in the New Forest but there's no ranger/rover ticket for that part of the network. I called to check that we would be able to make more than one BOJ on a return ticket but was told that only one BOJ was permitted on any ticket and I'd have to buy several singles to make 3-4 stops.

Is that right?

In the end we didn't go with the day's plans because of this and SWT lost out on a couple of hundred quid.

 

[Blindtraveler]

I too have had issues with XC and BOJ. Mine was a Birmingham Int>NCL open return with railcard (disabled). First break was at BHM where I stopped long enough to get a taxi to Pizza Express, collect a takeaway and return for the first northbound HST which I took to LDS, breaking there for the night and a bit of work next morning. Returned to Scotland on a VT and Connections advance Via Carlisle and a fortnight later headed to leeds again via same route and ticket. Another day in leeds then headed home on the HST in the evening, splitting onto a bottom teer advance at NCL.

The Grip out of leeds was not happy with BOJ or Split and intendeded throwing me off at York but a manager of some kind was wating there and he confirmed what I was doing was rite and he then spent the rest of the run to NCL Harrumphing every time he walked past. The Edinburgh Grip who took over said that a lot of the new TMs are badly trained and seam to think all theyl ever get is train after train of foalk traveling on APs which to me is simply another nail in XCs coffin. I now travel with the relivant rules, restrictions and coppy of the NRCOC ready to hand and advise anyone else doing unusual things with tickets on XC to do likewise. This does however conflict with my other piece of advice Re traveling with XC which is dont if there is a vaguely viable alternative!

 

[Paul Kelly]

Funnily enough I was also on this train yesterday (assuming we are talking about the 1326 from Coventry; there is no 1327) and also alighted at Birmingham International (having travelled from Oxford). I was sitting in Coach F and didn't notice any commotion.

But if you want some circumstantial evidence as to the guard's understanding of the validity of return tickets, I happened to notice that the person sitting beside me was travelling on the return portion of an Off-Peak Return from Leamington Spa to Oxford, and the guard wrote the figures 22/12 (i.e. yesterday's date) and circled it across the "valid until" date on the ticket. I know people have complained on here before about that sort of thing...
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
What I observed also ties in with Blind Traveller's observation that there is a wave of new badly-trained CrossCountry guards. The guard on the train yesterday was scribbling on all tickets with a pen whereas usually when travelling on CrossCountry I have my tickets stamped with a proper stamper showing the headcode and date (and a V for Virgin!); perhaps that is a way of telling the "old" and "new" guards apart? The guard yesterday didn't announce any of the stops either; the only announcements were upon departing each station saying the next stop would be in approximately xx minutes' time. As I didn't know the route very well I had to guess by the train's deceleration when it was time to start getting ready to get off.

 

[FenMan]

This thread just made me think about a recent conversation I had with SWT customer services and wondered if anyone could confirm what I was told. A group of us intended on visiting a few places on the same day in the New Forest but there's no ranger/rover ticket for that part of the network. I called to check that we would be able to make more than one BOJ on a return ticket but was told that only one BOJ was permitted on any ticket and I'd have to buy several singles to make 3-4 stops.

Is that right?

In the end we didn't go with the day's plans because of this and SWT lost out on a couple of hundred quid.

I often make multiple breaks of journey when travelling around southern England on Saturdays with no issues.

The other week, on a Farnborough - Southampton off peak day return, I broke the journey at Eastleigh and stopped short at St Denys on the way out and broke the journey at Southampton Parkway and Winchester on the way back.

If you don't tell 'em you're breaking the journey for a 2nd/3rd time, how would they ever know? At barriered stations I always ask the gateline assistant to let me out to avoid the risk of a ticket ending up in the hopper.

 

[sonic2009]

Indigo2 were you sitting in the quiet coach?
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
Have just spoken to XC customer relations on the phone, just to confirm what i was doing was perfectly valid & they have told me to email then asap with a complaint.

 

[Paul Kelly]

Yes quiet coach at the front of the train.

 

[sonic2009]

Yes quiet coach at the front of the train.

I was stood in the vestibule at the front of that coach.