XC issues with BOJ

[1e10]

The guard on the train yesterday was scribbling on all tickets with a pen whereas usually when travelling on CrossCountry I have my tickets stamped with a proper stamper showing the headcode and date (and a V for Virgin!); perhaps that is a way of telling the "old" and "new" guards apart?

I've had some of the older guards scribble on my ticket as a means of marking it as used. Sometimes they scribble a circle around the date and also scribble a 'Y' on the ticket too.

 

[andrewkeith5]

I've had some of the older guards scribble on my ticket as a means of marking it as used. Sometimes they scribble a circle around the date and also scribble a 'Y' on the ticket too.

I really dislike guards who scribble all over my tickets - purely because if I do break my journey and happen to encounter another guard they will either :

a) ignore the first guard's pointless scribbling; or
b) cause a whole bunch of problems because, even though my ticket is valid, the first guard has made it look like it isn't

It's for this reason that I always carry my tickets in a ticket holder and avoid giving the guard the opportunity to scribble.

If you're going to mark my ticket used, at least do so accurately - put the headcode and date, neatly, in that nice empty orange band at the top, so the rest of the details are still readable...

 

[455driver]

It's for this reason that I always carry my tickets in a ticket holder and avoid giving the guard the opportunity to scribble.

They are not your tickets as they remain the property of the railway!

 

[cjmillsnun]

This thread just made me think about a recent conversation I had with SWT customer services and wondered if anyone could confirm what I was told. A group of us intended on visiting a few places on the same day in the New Forest but there's no ranger/rover ticket for that part of the network. I called to check that we would be able to make more than one BOJ on a return ticket but was told that only one BOJ was permitted on any ticket and I'd have to buy several singles to make 3-4 stops.

Is that right?

In the end we didn't go with the day's plans because of this and SWT lost out on a couple of hundred quid.

I think SWT would be wrong, but I'm not 100%

 

[jkdd77]

I think SWT would be wrong, but I'm not 100%

They are wrong.

 

[Chapeltom]

Totally unenforceable anyway, if you can BoJ once, no-one can really stop you having multiple breaks of journey.

 

[David Goddard]

Totally unenforceable anyway, if you can BoJ once, no-one can really stop you having multiple breaks of journey.

Unless your ticket gets gripped on each leg, and when the third one comes along finds two grips already...

 

[34D]

You do mean that the return portion was Jan 2014 didn't you?

 

[Fare-Cop]

The relevant extracts from National Rail Conditions of Carriage:

B. VALIDITY OF TICKETS

11. The period during which you can use a ticket
The period during which a ticket is valid is printed on the ticket or will be made clear to you when you buy your ticket. If you use a ticket after the expiry of the ticket’s validity, you may be treated as having joined a train without a ticket and Condition 2 or 4 will apply.
If, as a result of a delay to your train, the validity of the ticket you are using expires during your journey, you will still be allowed to complete that journey. However, in these circumstances, you may not break your journey unless your train is so delayed that a break is reasonably required.

C. USE OF TICKETS

16. Starting, breaking or ending a journey at intermediate stations
You may start, or break and resume, a journey (in either direction in the case of a return ticket) at any intermediate station, as long as the ticket you hold is valid for the trains you want to use. You may also end your journey (in either direction in the case of a return ticket) before the destination shown on the ticket. However, these rights may not apply to some types of tickets for which a break of journey is prohibited, in which case the Ticket Seller must make this clear when you buy your ticket.
If you start, break and resume, or end your journey at an intermediate station when you are not entitled to do so, you will be liable to pay an excess fare. This excess fare will be the difference between the price paid for the ticket you hold and the price of the lowest priced ticket(s) available at a ticket office for immediate travel that would have entitled you to start, break and resume, or end your journey at that station on the service(s) you
have used.
A ticket which entitles you to travel on the London Underground and/or Docklands Light Railway does not entitle you to break and resume your journey at any of the stations on these networks unless it is a Season Ticket or a Travelcard.12 For the purposes of this Condition and Condition 11, you will be treated as breaking your journey if you leave a Train Company’s or Rail Service Company’s stations after you start your journey other than to:
(i) join a train at another station, or
(ii) stay in overnight accommodation when you cannot reasonably complete your journey within one day, or
(iii) follow any instructions given by a member of a Train Company’s or Rail Service Company’s staff.

 

[andrewkeith5]

They are not your tickets as they remain the property of the railway!

Wow that's taking pedantic to a whole new level :razz:

 

[yorkie]

Unless your ticket gets gripped on each leg, and when the third one comes along finds two grips already...

This discussion isn't applicable, as if break of journey is allowed, there's no issue, however any 'grip' I've ever seen has not in any way indicated whether or not a break of journey took place.

 

[AndyLandy]

Wow that's taking pedantic to a whole new level :razz:

If you want really pedantic, tickets remain the property of the issuing TOC, not The Railway. Particularly as the railways themselves are inanimate objects and thus do not have the concept of ownership.

Sorry!

 

[embers25]

This discussion isn't applicable, as if break of journey is allowed, there's no issue, however any 'grip' I've ever seen has not in any way indicated whether or not a break of journey took place.

and therein lies the key point. No grip (unless requested) states break of journey and most are just a pen mark which is pretty meaningless. However there are still too many guards out there (XC and EC ones spring to mind) that insist any mark is an issue (even on long trips).

 

[Fare-Cop]

For those of us old enough to remember using them, this is where the old variously shaped punch-out ticket nips had a real advantage in many cases.

Each BR area and some TTI teams had different nips and you could quickly see where an examination mark had been made, so if there was a mark that showed the ticket had been examined in the last segment of the paid for journey you knew it may have been completely used and an attempt to re-use might be evident.

If you were examining tickets in that section, the simple question 'Have you stopped off somewhere sir?' was often all that was usually necessary to clarify.

 

[sonic2009]

You do mean that the return portion was Jan 2014 didn't you?

Sorry yes i did. 18/01/2014

 

[Anvil1984]

I really dislike guards who scribble all over my tickets - purely because if I do break my journey and happen to encounter another guard they will either :

a) ignore the first guard's pointless scribbling; or
b) cause a whole bunch of problems because, even though my ticket is valid, the first guard has made it look like it isn't

It's for this reason that I always carry my tickets in a ticket holder and avoid giving the guard the opportunity to scribble.

If you're going to mark my ticket used, at least do so accurately - put the headcode and date, neatly, in that nice empty orange band at the top, so the rest of the details are still readable...

On my trains I have 70+ tickets to check in less than 10 minutes, I am not issued with a expensive stamper like the longer distance companies, only a hole punch (which tells the same story as a scribble and a pen. I'm not gonna faff around writing date, time and headcode on every ticket when theres a lot more important things to worry about, if a passenger states they are breaking a journey then I will endorse it but otherwise a scribble will have to suffice.

And quite simply if a ticket is in a ticket wallet that does not deter me, I will ask for it to be removed

 

[Flamingo]

Occasionally passengers ask can I not stamp their ticket (always a one month return) as they wish to BoJ. I always ask where, and endorse ticket accordingly, sometimes with a very dischuffed passenger as they now can no longer use it as a season ticket. One guy asked this when the next stop was the final destination...

 

[afyutr]

The relevant extracts from National Rail Conditions of carriage

Cheers for that. I thought that at the time but didn't fancy risking if having been specifically told by the TOC that it wasn't allowed.

 

[island]

Occasionally passengers ask can I not stamp their ticket (always a one month return) as they wish to BoJ. I always ask where, and endorse ticket accordingly, sometimes with a very dischuffed passenger as they now can no longer use it as a season ticket. One guy asked this when the next stop was the final destination...

That sort of passenger deserves a TIR

 

[ANorthernGuard]

On my trains I have 70+ tickets to check in less than 10 minutes, I am not issued with a expensive stamper like the longer distance companies, only a hole punch (which tells the same story as a scribble and a pen. I'm not gonna faff around writing date, time and headcode on every ticket when theres a lot more important things to worry about, if a passenger states they are breaking a journey then I will endorse it but otherwise a scribble will have to suffice.

And quite simply if a ticket is in a ticket wallet that does not deter me, I will ask for it to be removed

My thoughts exactly Anvil

 

[yorkie]

I really dislike guards who scribble all over my tickets - purely because if I do break my journey and happen to encounter another guard they will either :

a) ignore the first guard's pointless scribbling; or
b) cause a whole bunch of problems because, even though my ticket is valid, the first guard has made it look like it isn't

Hang on, the guard you could justifiably "dislike" is not the first guard, but a subsequent guard who claims that you cannot change trains and/or break your journey. Such claims are extremely rare.

It doesn't matter if a guard scribbles all over a ticket, the ticket remains valid within the validity period, until the final destination is reached.

 

[Flamingo]

That sort of passenger deserves a TIR

If I knew where to get one, how to fill it it, and who to give it to after filling it in I would

 

[Baxenden Bank]

For those of us old enough to remember using them, this is where the old variously shaped punch-out ticket nips had a real advantage in many cases.

Are 'guards' issued with nips (as above) or proper stamps which state the train code, date etc (as per Virgin)? Is it that the 'guard' has misplaced them / finds it easier to just scribble with a biro?

Some 'guards' use felt pen and I know of people who quickly wipe off the wet ink, thus being able to re-use the ticket!

 

[island]

Are 'guards' issued with nips (as above) or proper stamps which state the train code, date etc (as per Virgin)? Is it that the 'guard' has misplaced them / finds it easier to just scribble with a biro?

Some 'guards' use felt pen and I know of people who quickly wipe off the wet ink, thus being able to re-use the ticket!

Varies by TOC. Some TOCs are apparently required to use Zifa stampers as a franchise condition.

Don't know why you write guard in quotation marks; it is a perfectly normal word...

 

[sheff1]

Don't know why you write guard in quotation marks; it is a perfectly normal word...

Yes, but the person checking tickets might be a conductor, senior conductor, train manager, on-train team leader and possibly someone with other titles which I have overlooked ..... and that is before we get to RPIs, RPOs ....

If I remember, I describe all these people as 'ticket checkers' for ease of reference. Some of them object - "we have other, more important, duties you know" . Maybe 'guard' is a better option.

I don't mind what any of these people scribble, stamp or write on my ticket - it doesn't affect the overarching validity thereof. Even if they were to write 'not valid on EMT', the ticket would retain the same validity as it had before they wrote nonsense on it.

 

[Baxenden Bank]

Varies by TOC. Some TOCs are apparently required to use Zifa stampers as a franchise condition.

Don't know why you write guard in quotation marks; it is a perfectly normal word...

Because the person I would always regard as a guard comes in many modern guises - train manager, conductor etc. and may not actually be responsible for guarding the train in the old fashioned sense. As this site is riddled with pedants (or pendants as someone had it the other day by mistake) I used quotation marks to imply guard or any person with a different job title doing that job of checking tickets on train.

 

[island]

Fair enough I think "guard" is the generic term which encompasses "train manager" and "conductor" but then there are also "ticket examiners" on FSR who aren't guards and "on-board managers" on Southeastern high speed services who aren't guards either

 

[ffm]

On the subject if the thread I have issues with PWUA instead of QE. JAT. PEP. FGS.

 

[Eagle]

Postal Workers' Union of Aotearoa, Quantitative Easing, Japanese Association of Translators, Pauli Exclusion Principle, and Federation of Genealogical Societies?

 

[bb21]

If there is a joke in there somewhere then I am completely stumped.