As far as we are concerned you're stuck with the next train operated by the same train operator with advances if your train is too full to board, unless they bother to ask for ticket acceptance, which is generally granted. On a personal level discretion is more likely to be exercised though.
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XC enforcing invisible reservations
- Thread starter embers25
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As far as we are concerned you're stuck with the next train operated by the same train operator with advances if your train is too full to board, unless they bother to ask for ticket acceptance, which is generally granted. On a personal level discretion is more likely to be exercised though.
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RailUK Forums
My friend bought some tickets from Birmingham New Street ticket office yesterday, Off Peak Return from New Street to Man Picc, outward next Thursday, 2nd April using XC, she asked if she could reserve a seat and was told none were available, this is the second time this has happened, the first time was a few weeks ago, when she got on the train the crazy "May be reserved on route" signs were displayed meaning you could be asked to vacate your seat by someone who had only booked the seat 10mins before even though you had purchased a couple of days previous and been told no seats were available, (I think this 10min reservation rule is one of the most stupid ideas I have ever come across). We always book our tickets several days in advance specifically to reserve seats, this being the only advantage of buying early. Is there any way she can now reserve a seat? she doesn't have access to a smart phone, neither have I for that matter.
iantherev
Member
May well be the case, especially as it will be the last chance to travel from the South Coast to Manchester before the Reading blockade. The warning signs are permanent stickers but even XC can't reserve what is already reserved!
I suppose it is possible all the seats are reserved as it is Easter, (though I doubt it), this certainly wasn't the case a few weeks ago.
There were no "warning stickers", the "may be reserved" signs were on the digital display above the seats.
Apparently the system has been down all day. I travelled from Derby to Birmingham just after mid-day and an announcement was made to that effect. I returned on the 19.30 Brum - Newcastle and the scrolling message was showng:
We are unable to display seat reservations today due to national computer fault, if anyone presents a ticket for the seat you are sitting in, PLEASE give it up for them.
We are unable to display seat reservations today due to national computer fault, if anyone presents a ticket for the seat you are sitting in, PLEASE give it up for them.
I assume the message being displayed on this Voyager then is the doing of a train manager and not a company wide message if you're not seeing the exact same message. I too have heard on occasions before that there have been system wide problems across the country for the reservation system.
There really is no excuse for this. It's 2015 and a system shouldn't have this many problems on a regular basis.
I've just used the FGW website to book a journey on 2nd April that involves using XC on the 09.36 from Oxford to Wolverhampton, and it did let me make a reservation.
I have however sometimes had problems getting reservations when booking at short notice; my guess is that this means that all the reserveable seats were reserved. However, on at least one occasion I seem to remember that Trainline-powered websites would give me a reservation and mixing desk ones wouldn't (or maybe vice versa), although I can't remember whether that journey involved XC or not. If different booking systems can give different results, maybe the system used by booking office staff suffers from the same problem.
If you want to know what seats are available on a particular train, do a dummy booking on the Cross Country site and you'll be able to see a seating plan showing which seats are free. If you note down the seat you want, I believe a ticket office can reserve a specific coach and seat number (York have done for me in the past).
Marton
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Failed Unit
Established Member
Can they still print labels? I have seen this happen on the XC HST on a Dundee - Plymouth service.
Jonfun
Established Member
Yes. They can be done on Avantix, although this of course relies on the Train Manager a) knowing about the fault, and b) having time to do anything about it - eg delayed inbound workings, taking over a train mid journey etc.
As has been stated it's possible to manually set each display to virtually anything.
As has been stated it's possible to manually set each display to virtually anything.
This will work if you're booking/checking prior to 00:00 on the day of travel. After 00:00, all seats in coaches other than C are marked as reserved.
ValleyLines142
Established Member
I would ask again at any staffed ticket office. It could be that perhaps the booking system at New Street was down. I can't see how the train is that full already.
Also, you don't need a smartphone to use the TMR system. It's just a text.
My friend called at New Street again today and got seat reservations for the tickets she got on Friday, so it does seem as though the system was down on Friday.
iantherev
Member
The Penzance - Manchester I was on on Friday had no displays and Paper reservations. On the other hand the HST I subsequently caught had electronic reservations showing.
Justin Smith
Established Member
I have had extended correspondence with Cross Country Trains about short notice seat reservations ("Ten Minute Seat Reservations" = TMR) and they have stated that TMR should be suspended by the train manager if the train is busy and seats are short.
Two points arise from this :
1 If there is a shortage of seats and you sit in a seat marked "may become reserved during the journey" (as opposed to reserved from XXX to YYY) if anyone tries to evict you the train manager has not done his job properly because he has failed to suspend TMR. Thus, one assumes, you do not have to move even if he asks you, or, he has to get you a seat elsewhere, possibly in First Class ? ! ?
2 If TMR is only available if there are plenty of seats on the train anyway, what is the point of it ? ! ?
Two points arise from this :
1 If there is a shortage of seats and you sit in a seat marked "may become reserved during the journey" (as opposed to reserved from XXX to YYY) if anyone tries to evict you the train manager has not done his job properly because he has failed to suspend TMR. Thus, one assumes, you do not have to move even if he asks you, or, he has to get you a seat elsewhere, possibly in First Class ? ! ?
2 If TMR is only available if there are plenty of seats on the train anyway, what is the point of it ? ! ?
It'd be interesting to speak to a few TMs to see what they actually think of the TMR. With CrossCountry it's a fairly busy job as it is; maybe they simply don't have time to go through micro-managing it for people. And of course the times when they would are when it's quiet... when it isn't necessary!
Of course their first priority remains safety, followed by timeliness, then revenue and customer service.
Of course their first priority remains safety, followed by timeliness, then revenue and customer service.
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I have spoken to a couple, and they don't like it at all, or the insistence of XC to turf people out of their seats when the reservation system isn't working.
Naturally, two TM's can't be regarded as a big sample!
Justin, there's no point in TMR at all in my view, but XC must see some benefit in it or they would have abandoned it by now. They do like to put their staff in very difficult positions through policies like these. It's almost as if they take some perverse kind of joy in creating conflict between their passengers and then expecting their on board staff to help to sort out the mess that they've created.
Naturally, two TM's can't be regarded as a big sample!
Justin, there's no point in TMR at all in my view, but XC must see some benefit in it or they would have abandoned it by now. They do like to put their staff in very difficult positions through policies like these. It's almost as if they take some perverse kind of joy in creating conflict between their passengers and then expecting their on board staff to help to sort out the mess that they've created.
They do not care about their trains, they do not care about their staff, and they certainly do not care at all about their passengers. All they care about is money, this makes them money so they go for it.
Bletchleyite
Veteran Member
As there is no fee for TMRs, I don't see how it is all that much of a money spinner.
Jonfun
Established Member
I'm awfully confused at this. Advance Purchase on the Day allows customers to get cheaper tickets if they're willing to commit to quieter trains - how is this a bad thing for customers?
scotsman
Established Member
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Point is that TMR is a unique selling point. TMR gets more pax on seats.
Pax then more likely to buy XC only tickets, enjoy flexibility whilst easily reserving seats.
Pax, now on train, more likely to purchase wifi or catering - on top of hypothetical XC only fare going straight to Arriva.
Pax then more likely to buy XC only tickets, enjoy flexibility whilst easily reserving seats.
Pax, now on train, more likely to purchase wifi or catering - on top of hypothetical XC only fare going straight to Arriva.
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As said, TMR is a unique selling point. It must attract business that XC thinks wouldn't otherwise be there or they surely wouldn't persist with it?
Mind you, there's so much wrong with XC, that I wouldn't be surprised if the net effect of this was to drive people like me from using their services and they don't even realise it.
After all, their pricing policy has done exactly the same thing, meaning that their customer base now seems to consist purely of short distance travellers, and season ticket holders, with occasional long distance traveller sif they're lucky enough to bag a cheap Advance.
People with expensed Anytime Returns also make up a small number. The wealthier contingent of those entitled to railcards with Off-Peak Returns for long-distance also, but again they have been completly abused as a business sector by the application of a 0930 restriction for off-peak tickets. If I'm travelling from Plymouth to York, there really isn't a "peak" in that journey.
I'm sure there are a small number of passengers who travel on Anytime returns. There are, for example, some flows where there will be business travellers, Reading to Birmingham used to see a lot of business when I was selling tickets, there was a mini peak at the ticket windows before the 0630 and 0730 trains back in the day!
Even revenue wise, though, I'm sure this pales into insignificance compared to short flows like Leeds - Sheffield, Birmingham - Cheltenham, and Bristol - Gloucester and Taunton. I've noticed large numbers of people travelling on between these points on the journeys I've reluctantly taken with XC.
I've given up trying to make sense of XC's revenue and pricing strategy. They seemed to think that everyone leaving somewhere like Par before 0930 would just pay for a more expensive ticket when they brought in the across the board restrictions. What happened, I suspect, was that people learnt to split their journeys, took alternative transport, or just didn't travel. Hence the early morning trains at such locations heading east are almost deserted whenever I've seen them.
Then again, according to my contact inside XC, they don't have much of a policy these days!
Failed Unit
Established Member
Many people I know have now started going via London. I certainly do for a Bristol - Edinburgh journey now.
I haven't used XC between Edinburgh and Leeds for years, I understand upon leaving Leeds trains can be full but they normally have thinned out after York. For me change a York on East Coast guarentees a seat a methord I wouldn't change even with the XC reservation system. (As an added bonus you have a buffet as know you can get something to eat and drink)
I used to use Cross-Country a lot in BR days for the direct train, but the combination of crowding, price (it is rarely the cheap option to use XC) and lack of catering has forced me away.
I used the cross country network a lot before Operation Princess and the Voyagers. I used them less after that, then much less after their restrictions came in and the off peak fares became ludicrously high to boot. Now I only use them when I absolutely have to, eg for reasons of time.
The experience wasn't perfect, but it was a lot more comfortable than what we have now. The last journey I made was on a service that should have been an HST, which I thought would be more comfortable. It was still rammed inside the central core, with people standing all along my coach between Leeds and Birmingham. I was happy to get off at Cheltenham. The XC unit from there to Cardiff was busy, but not as bad as the HST had been.
The TMR system is just another disincentive to use their trains on top of the poor catering, high prices, discomfort and overcrowding that you've identified!
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