XC Dawlish problems 13 September 2015.

[Rapidash]

It only takes one big wave at the wrong time.

Funnily enough I've been on every type of stock possible on the line here in Winter, and there's never been an issue apart from the hydrophobic Voyagers.

I'm all for being ominous and hysterical in the appropriate place, but I will point out that, other than this one conking out, to the best of my knowledge, no train has ever been sent plummeting to a watery grave, nor have they been smote upon the cliffs at Dawlish. There'd be ghost walks for a start....

 

[Busaholic]

I wrote a letter to Modern Railways three or four months ago asking this very question and hoping for some sort of official response from Hitachi. My letter was never published by the magazine.

The only possible benefits may be, if the newly ordered bi-modes can't cope with waves at Dawlish, that the political pressure to re-open the alternative route via Okehampton - Tavistock/Bere Alston becomes unstoppable.

Time will tell....

Having got enough sheep to vote blue in May (every seat in S.W. England bar Exeter) there is no pressure whatever until a few months prior to May 2020 for an alternative route, at which time a few more noises will be made to keep the sheep contented for another five years.

Here's where Jeremy Corbyn could use fraternal connections and get his brother Piers to produce a computer model at his weather agency showing the reality of climate change in Devon and Cornwall, particularly related to the south coast. High winds are no longer confined to the autumn/winter months but are now liable to be present in any month - the July just past was a good example with gales on several days in West Cornwall at least. A spring tide combined with a gale from the 'wrong' direction would be enough to deluge Dawlish and Penzance rail lines once again and cause structural damage.

 

[najaB]

Funnily enough I've been on every type of stock possible on the line here in Winter, and there's never been an issue apart from the hydrophobic Voyagers.

The 'wrong time' I was talking about is when a Voyager is passing! The point I was making is that something like one in a thousand waves is twice the size of the average, combine that with a Voyager (which is more sensitive to water ingress) passing at just the right time and we have a stranded train while the HST before it and Pacer after it barely get wet.

 

[hassaanhc]

By the way, If anyone wishes to experience the average Devon autumn windspeed in a more urban setting, head to Exeter in a storm and try and walk around the corner of John Lewis. It's like being punched in the face with a brick. Very bracing and refreshing.
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My uni is based next to the Royal Docks in East London, somewhere that is very exposed to the wind, and even after 2 years I find myself surprised by it, especially when it comes to deciding how warm to wrap up before going outside .

 

[talltim]

Interesting Delay Attribution Board document re Voyagers at Dawlish from last year
http://www.delayattributionboard.co... XC unit failure @ dawlish FINAL SignedL.pdf

 

[FordFocus]

AFAIK Voyagers use some type of rheostatic or dynamic braking systems that avoid the main use of the air brake disc systems to save on wear and tear. The resistors are roof mounted and expels the hot air to the atmosphere. When a wave hits these resistors it causes a problem with the Voyagers systems stopping the train.

Is it not a simple answer for this system to be isolated during high waves and for Voyagers to use a conventional air braking system instead?

 

[bnm]

Other electrical systems on the Class 220/221s can be affected by water ingress, including those that control the doors.

 

[83G/84D]

From what I was told yesterday by a friend who works for Cross Country there were previously some modifications made to the Voyager fleet in light of past problems along the sea wall although he was not sure of exact details.

Anyone know more about this?

Regarding this incident the train came to a stand between stations and the brakes could not be released so when the assisting train arrived the failed one still could not be moved hence a transfer of around 30 passengers along the track from one train to another.

All passengers were briefed and escorted with temporary lighting provided and plenty of staff on site to assist.

Strong north / easterly winds forecast along the south coast later today along with heavy rain at times, high tide this evening could be interesting.

 

[SpacePhoenix]

Is there any way that some sort of shield could be added to protect the resistor bank without either causing the resistor bank to overheat or fouling the loading gauge?

 

[Blindtraveler]

or better still when the new sets arrive scrap the Voyagers instead of the HSTs. Whilst this is a joke, it does pose some questions doesnt it?

 

[anme]

Sounds a bit like some watches that say water resistant up to 30 metres but really shouldn't be taken into the swimming pool sadly. I hope its better than that.

Why do you say that? Are you familiar with the technical standard mentioned (TS1983)?

 

[plymothian]

...so basically XC have been blamed for the delay for running a train that cannot cope with sea water ingress over a line next to the sea that NR's forecasting system deemed no significant threat from high waves.

So if XC are going to take the brunt of any delay attribution, perhaps they should say f-it and never run a Voyager west of Exeter again.

 

[talltim]

So if XC are going to take the brunt of any delay attribution, perhaps they should say f-it and never run a Voyager.

Edited that for you

 

[Blindtraveler]

@talltim

Hypothetically, would there be enough 170s to work EXD to PLY, NQY and PNZ when the above arnt worked with HSTs? Voyagers could be cascade to the Nottingham Cardif, Birmingham Stansted and Birmingham Leicesters with some re diagramming to ensure mainly 4 cars used.

 

[najaB]

@talltim

Hypothetically, would there be enough 170s to work EXD to PLY, NQY and PNZ when the above arnt worked with HSTs? Voyagers could be cascade to the Nottingham Cardif, Birmingham Stansted and Birmingham Leicesters with some re diagramming to ensure mainly 4 cars used.

Ooh.. can't wait to do Aberdeen to Penzance in a 170!

 

[MarkyT]

From what I was told yesterday by a friend who works for Cross Country there were previously some modifications made to the Voyager fleet in light of past problems along the sea wall

Bombardier modified some control software associated with the resistor banks. That was supposed to make the system less susceptible to the sea spray problem, but they probably can't easily eliminate the problem entirely.

 

[Cliveblackpool]

IF it was considered that there was a possibility of the Voyager getting a dose of salt water, why was it not diverted onto the up line? That was one reason of installing bi directional running on the up line.

 

[Crossover]

@talltim

Hypothetically, would there be enough 170s to work EXD to PLY, NQY and PNZ when the above arnt worked with HSTs? Voyagers could be cascade to the Nottingham Cardif, Birmingham Stansted and Birmingham Leicesters with some re diagramming to ensure mainly 4 cars used.

Since I don't believe Voyagers are cleared for Stansted, that is one of the routes where they wouldn't be able to work

 

[PHILIPE]

IF it was considered that there was a possibility of the Voyager getting a dose of salt water, why was it not diverted onto the up line? That was one reason of installing bi directional running on the up line.

If XC believe there is a possibility, they terminate short/cancel trains. I should imagine this would have been unforeseen.

 

[najaB]

IF it was considered that there was a possibility of the Voyager getting a dose of salt water, why was it not diverted onto the up line? That was one reason of installing bi directional running on the up line.

As I pointed out earlier, something like 1 in 1000 waves will be significantly larger than average. It's entirely possible that this Voyager was victim to just such a rogue wave.

 

[MarkyT]

As I pointed out earlier, something like 1 in 1000 waves will be significantly larger than average. It's entirely possible that this Voyager was victim to just such a rogue wave.

Yes I've noticed this walking on the sea wall and waiting around for steam specials. A high tide with a moderate swell and you think you're fine, then suddenly the big one arrives and you get soaked!

 

[sbatts43]

Just out of interest, how did they recover the Voyager?

I was watching the Blenheim Cam then and It crawled past sometime In the morning. If you go to Dawlish Beach. Com website, click on recordings tab at top of page, you will see It. Page 3 I think you will see It.
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or better still when the new sets arrive scrap the Voyagers instead of the HSTs. Whilst this is a joke, it does pose some questions doesnt it?

Damn good Idea. Never liked them from the start. Voyagers that Is.
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That earlier train may have been quite busy and perhaps if the wind was still up they didn't want the risk of two trains full of people potentially stuck in the section. The bi-di signalled up track is slightly further from the sea wall so is slightly less vulnerable. 1V66 was only 2.5 minutes late passing Teignmouth and indeed most other trains in both up and down directions collected little delay following the incident, all running via the up line.

So why don't they all run via the up line In bad weather?

 

[MarkyT]

So why don't they all run via the up line In bad weather?

Hindsight is wonderful isn't it. I suppose the weather wasn't quite bad enough to vary the plan and then it was the freak 1 in a 1000 wave that did the damage. It's fairly quiet in the evening on a Saturday with services thinning out earlier than weekdays and even Sundays, so the single line working didn't have to cope with very many trains really in this case. If the same thing had happened on a different day or at a different time of day then the disruption may have been worse and affected many more travellers.

 

[455driver]

To be pedantic they're DEMUs. The engines drive a generator, which drives the traction motors via a cardan shaft.

To be even more pedantic the engine drives an alternator which powers the traction motors which are connected to the final drives on the axles by a cardan shaft!
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IF it was considered that there was a possibility of the Voyager getting a dose of salt water, why was it not diverted onto the up line? That was one reason of installing bi directional running on the up line.

Because there were trains using the up line!
They cant stuff every other train just because a Voyager cant cope with a bit of water!

The problem is the poxy Voyagers, every other train copes well enough no matter how much water gets thrown on top of them.

There is a video of a 150/1 stuck at Dawlish just before the wall was breached, it ran wrong road back to Dawlish Warren before returning to Exeter. I then took the train to Exmouth and there was that much water in the cab there were waves running from side to side, that unit never missed a beat even though it was saturated. The Voyagers should have been designed to cope instead of all the excuses they keep coming out with!

To use a well worn phrase, lessons will be learned etc etc!

 

[Martin_1981]

My (now separated) parents' first journey on a Voyager from Leicester to Plymouth in October 2002 was on a day when the waves were high at Dawlish. The train, bound for Penzance, terminated at Exeter, the train conductor announcing something along the lines of 'Voyagers are allergic to sea water'. They continued to Plymouth on a FGW HST.

 

[Welshman]

As I pointed out earlier, something like 1 in 1000 waves will be significantly larger than average. It's entirely possible that this Voyager was victim to just such a rogue wave.

Cue Newspaper headlines - "Train delayed by wrong type of wave"

 

[PHILIPE]

Alleged that conditions at Dawlish yesterday were the worst since the closure due to a combination of high winds and high tides. XC Canned the Voyagers for part of the day. Reported on Yahoo by passenger on 1C95 1857 Paddington to Penzance that conditions atrocious, stopped at Dawlish Warren to pick up Network Rail "watchman" to ride through at 20 mph.

 

[Bald Rick]

Alleged that conditions at Dawlish yesterday were the worst since the closure due to a combination of high winds and high tides. XC Canned the Voyagers for part of the day. Reported on Yahoo by passenger on 1C95 1857 Paddington to Penzance that conditions atrocious, stopped at Dawlish Warren to pick up Network Rail "watchman" to ride through at 20 mph.

Indeed. And the railway is all still there.

 

[Busaholic]

Indeed. And the railway is all still there.

For now.

 

[Bald Rick]

For now.

The bit that was rebuilt will still be there when the rest of Devon has eroded!