XC Dawlish problems 13 September 2015.

[PHILIPE]

I am starting a new thread as previous extended ones are now quite old and all mixed up despite attempts to clear up. A post from the wilderness of news whereas in other areas many relatively minor things get reported on the Forum.
Last night 1V65 XC Voyager 17 07 Manchester Picc to Plymouth came to stand at Dawlish at approx. 22 00 after a large wave (high winds at the time) gave the train a wash and with sea salt getting into the rooftop equipment (longstanding problem with Voyagers). In fact, if high winds/tides are forecast XC will suspend Voyager worked trains along the route.
Following 1V68 13 49 Glasgow to Plymouth ran past on opposite line (bi-directional) to attach to front but unable to move. Passengers were transferred at ground level from 1V65 to 1V68 which arrived Plymouth 3 hours late. and demic left there until rescued at 07 20 this morning.
Obvious disruption this morning but I don't know the actual details of the train service.

 

[misterredmist]

funny how they named the DMU's "Voyagers" yet they can't handle a wave !

 

[Ash Bridge]

I don't want to start an AT300 knocking thread, but I sincerely hope this weakness of the 220/221 design has been taken into consideration,and they do not suffer similar failures when they replace the HST sets on services to the far Southwest.

 

[Philip Phlopp]

I don't want to start an AT300 knocking thread, but I sincerely hope this weakness of the 220/221 design has been taken into consideration,and they do not suffer similar failures when they replace the HST sets on services to the far Southwest.

TS1983 in the IEP Train Technical Specification specifically requires the IEP sets (and will apply to the AT300 fleet) to remain fully functional after exposure to salt water spray, and TS1844 requires them to be fully operational after running through water upto a depth of 100mm above rail height. That's in addition to meeting the TSI requirements for typical UK climatic conditions.

Japan is naturally prone to extremes of weather, being in the Typhoon region, and their railway network is very resilient despite wide spread electrification, they're able to run trains in relatively high winds, with high levels of rainfall and sea-spray.

I'd be very surprised indeed if the Hitachi AT300 family (IEP and others) isn't significantly over engineered in this respect, making full use of the experience Hitachi and the Japanese railway network has built up operating in very hostile weather conditions.

 

[Woody]

An article from todays "Western Morning News"
http://www.westernmorningnews.co.uk...r/story-27793513-detail/story.html?afterReg=Y

 

[Ash Bridge]

TS1983 in the IEP Train Technical Specification specifically requires the IEP sets (and will apply to the AT300 fleet) to remain fully functional after exposure to salt water spray, and TS1844 requires them to be fully operational after running through water upto a depth of 100mm above rail height. That's in addition to meeting the TSI requirements for typical UK climatic conditions.

Japan is naturally prone to extremes of weather, being in the Typhoon region, and their railway network is very resilient despite wide spread electrification, they're able to run trains in relatively high winds, with high levels of rainfall and sea-spray.

I'd be very surprised indeed if the Hitachi AT300 family (IEP and others) isn't significantly over engineered in this respect, making full use of the experience Hitachi and the Japanese railway network has built up operating in very hostile weather conditions.

That's good to learn, so theoretically they should be at least as dependable as the current 125's.

 

[Kite159]

The waves were bad when I passed the area at around 19:10, at least it washed the side of the HST when a large wave hit.

 

[HSTEd]

Remember they have places where they have to spray heated water on Shinkansen tracks to stop them being buried in Snow.

 

[davetheguard]

I don't want to start an AT300 knocking thread, but I sincerely hope this weakness of the 220/221 design has been taken into consideration,and they do not suffer similar failures when they replace the HST sets on services to the far Southwest.

I wrote a letter to Modern Railways three or four months ago asking this very question and hoping for some sort of official response from Hitachi. My letter was never published by the magazine.

The only possible benefits may be, if the newly ordered bi-modes can't cope with waves at Dawlish, that the political pressure to re-open the alternative route via Okehampton - Tavistock/Bere Alston becomes unstoppable.

Time will tell....

 

[455driver]

TS1983 in the IEP Train Technical Specification specifically requires the IEP sets (and will apply to the AT300 fleet) to remain fully functional after exposure to salt water spray,

That is the problem I can see, Dawlish can dump several thousand gallons of water on top of the train, 'salt water spray' doesn't even come close to describing it!

 

[PHILIPE]

I wrote a letter to Modern Railways three or four months ago asking this very question and hoping for some sort of official response from Hitachi. My letter was never published by the magazine.

The only possible benefits may be, if the newly ordered bi-modes can't cope with waves at Dawlish, that the political pressure to re-open the alternative route via Okehampton - Tavistock/Bere Alston becomes unstoppable.

Time will tell....

Some 18 months on from the re-opening of the Sea Wall and serious discussion on an alternative route, nothing seems to have happened in that direction yet.

 

[gimmea50anyday]

I always understood that a modification had all but eliminated that flaw with the "salties" (as XC staff nicknamed them soon after introduction and demic'ing themselves in droves......)

 

[Ash Bridge]

The Met Office are warning of the strongest El Niño weather event possibility since 1950, maybe nature will give the powers that be a wake up call this winter regarding the sea wall?

 

[HSTEd]

You could probably bury the entire exposed side of the line in a reverse cut and cover tunnel for much less than the cost of a marginally useful diversion route.

 

[najaB]

You could probably bury the entire exposed side of the line in a reverse cut and cover tunnel for much less than the cost of a marginally useful diversion route.

Or, even cheaper but equally effective - build an offshore breakwater.

 

[61653 HTAFC]

That is the problem I can see, Dawlish can dump several thousand gallons of water on top of the train, 'salt water spray' doesn't even come close to describing it!

All in one go? Surely that's tsunami levels of water...?

 

[bnm]

Only needs just over 5 cubic metres of water for there to be 1000 gallons.

 

[alexl92]

Just out of interest, how did they recover the Voyager?

 

[TheEdge]

All in one go? Surely that's tsunami levels of water...?

No, not at all. Don't underestimate the strength of weather on southwest coast, remember once you are down to Devon and Cornwall that's open Atlantic you are looking on and those storms are North Atlantic beasties.

 

[455driver]

All in one go? Surely that's tsunami levels of water...?

Yes, having been on the receiving end and feeling the train rock as the wave hit it I would say there were several thousand gallons of water involved!

The managed to get it able to be driven from the Exeter end cab and ran the train wrong road back to Dawlish Warren before crossing over to the up line and scuttling off to Central Shivers for a repair or 3 to the other end.

 

[61653 HTAFC]

Well, it sounded a lot, but people do have a habit of underestimating the power of the sea, and as you've experienced it at the sharp end I shall respectfully bow to your judgement!

 

[DarloRich]

Some 18 months on from the re-opening of the Sea Wall and serious discussion on an alternative route, nothing seems to have happened in that direction yet.

because nothing is going to happen anytime soon - there is no funding.

 

[deltic]

I am starting a new thread as previous extended ones are now quite old and all mixed up despite attempts to clear up. A post from the wilderness of news whereas in other areas many relatively minor things get reported on the Forum.
Last night 1V65 XC Voyager 17 07 Manchester Picc to Plymouth came to stand at Dawlish at approx. 22 00 after a large wave (high winds at the time) gave the train a wash and with sea salt getting into the rooftop equipment (longstanding problem with Voyagers). In fact, if high winds/tides are forecast XC will suspend Voyager worked trains along the route.
Following 1V68 13 49 Glasgow to Plymouth ran past on opposite line (bi-directional) to attach to front but unable to move. Passengers were transferred at ground level from 1V65 to 1V68 which arrived Plymouth 3 hours late. and demic left there until rescued at 07 20 this morning.
Obvious disruption this morning but I don't know the actual details of the train service.

Why didnt 1V66 1110 Aberdeen to Plymouth try to rescue the train - as this was the service directly behind it? The Glasgow train was a further 1hr behind.

 

[PHILIPE]

Why didnt 1V66 1110 Aberdeen to Plymouth try to rescue the train - as this was the service directly behind it? The Glasgow train was a further 1hr behind.

I don't know, but probably still assessing 1V65

 

[HarleyDavidson]

funny how they named the DMU's "Voyagers" yet they can't handle a wave !

To be pedantic they're DEMUs. The engines drive a generator, which drives the traction motors via a cardan shaft.

 

[MarkyT]

Why didnt 1V66 1110 Aberdeen to Plymouth try to rescue the train - as this was the service directly behind it? The Glasgow train was a further 1hr behind.

That earlier train may have been quite busy and perhaps if the wind was still up they didn't want the risk of two trains full of people potentially stuck in the section. The bi-di signalled up track is slightly further from the sea wall so is slightly less vulnerable. 1V66 was only 2.5 minutes late passing Teignmouth and indeed most other trains in both up and down directions collected little delay following the incident, all running via the up line.

 

[Class 170101]

TS1983 in the IEP Train Technical Specification specifically requires the IEP sets (and will apply to the AT300 fleet) to remain fully functional after exposure to salt water spray,

Sounds a bit like some watches that say water resistant up to 30 metres but really shouldn't be taken into the swimming pool sadly. I hope its better than that.

 

[PhilipF]

We've been in Brixham for a few days, and there are really high tides here now. Last evening the wind was from the west, so in theory the line should have been somewhat sheltered. Just how bad could it be if the wind was from the east?

 

[Rapidash]

It didn't feel that bad. I was on a Sprinter headed home an hour or so before it, had the usual water over the top, but nothing unusual, hell the windows didn't blow open, which is the usual sign of a proper hoolie.

By the way, If anyone wishes to experience the average Devon autumn windspeed in a more urban setting, head to Exeter in a storm and try and walk around the corner of John Lewis. It's like being punched in the face with a brick. Very bracing and refreshing.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

We've been in Brixham for a few days, and there are really high tides here now. Last evening the wind was from the west, so in theory the line should have been somewhat sheltered. Just how bad could it be if the wind was from the east?

Easterlies are always potentially destructive. The Berry Head weather station was recording regular 110 gusts during last winter, but as they were mostly westerly it wasn't too bad.

 

[najaB]

It didn't feel that bad. I was on a Sprinter headed home an hour or so before it, had the usual water over the top, but nothing unusual, hell the windows didn't blow open, which is the usual sign of a proper hoolie.

It only takes one big wave at the wrong time.