X country half train locked

[DelW]

I get somewhat cheesed off by the current wave of XC's TV or YouTube adverts - they don't have anywhere near enough capacity for their existing passengers, why do they want to try to pack even more of them in? And as for it being an enjoyable trip, back in about 2010, after some horrible journeys between Reading and Birmingham, I classified XC as a company that I wouldn't travel with under any circumstances (along with Ryanair). I'll either go via London, even with the tube transfer, or I'll drive. I assume the people who produce their adverts (and probably the senior XC management) have never actually been on one of their trains and experienced just how unpleasant they actually are.

 

[Horizon22]

I get somewhat cheesed off by the current wave of XC's TV or YouTube adverts - they don't have anywhere near enough capacity for their existing passengers, why do they want to try to pack even more of them in? And as for it being an enjoyable trip, back in about 2010, after some horrible journeys between Reading and Birmingham, I classified XC as a company that I wouldn't travel with under any circumstances (along with Ryanair). I'll either go via London, even with the tube transfer, or I'll drive. I assume the people who produce their adverts (and probably the senior XC management) have never actually been on one of their trains and experienced just how unpleasant they actually are.

Can't say I've come across any XC ads. I've seen Avanti, GA, LNER, GWR and SWR though. Might be geographical, but some of those others aren't exactly near me either.

 

[ChilliSauce]

Indeed and I don't think it can be called secret when it's in job adverts.

XC it seems refuse to disclose the "Entitlements" for their own staff ...in the public domain, of Rail Delivery Group. Wonder how XC would take to a FOI request?

 

[KNN]

XC it seems refuse to disclose the "Entitlements" for their own staff ...in the public domain, of Rail Delivery Group. Wonder how XC would take to a FOI request?

What are you unsure about?

It seems pretty clear that you are allowed soft drinks when you travel onboard if you have a FC duty or leisure pass, but not alcohol.

If you find a job advert for an XC job it will say something along the lines of "free travel on Arriva services". There doesn't seem to be any secret.

You also need to look at the non TOC specific sections of the RDG website which say you should vacate your seat for fare paying customers.

 

[Mogz]

Because, so often, that will happen regardless of whether or not first gets declassified...

It's not actually true that XC never declassify first. They will try to sell upgrades to people at the weekend, or they may move the odd person with booked assistance who would otherwise have to be found a seat in standard into a first class seat. But they usually won't declassify first proactively it's true.

But it is declassified still when the alternative is leaving people behind. This is pretty common on four cars, or 4+4 where one unit is locked out. Once it becomes a matter of people not getting onto the train they will fill up first class. A few train managers come through the aisle to shout at people who do this, though most don't, and even the ones who do are generally ignored or told to eff off (or worse) and that's the end of it. Once that's happened the train manager is supposed to report the conditions and advise that first should be declassified for part or all of the journey. They may sometimes not do this, which then creates an issue for customers with first class tickets who want to claim a partial refund, because customer service can't see the log entry.

I’ve seen XC trains that are packed to the gills and people standing in the aisle of first class being told that they will have to squeeze back into the vestibules or get off, or else be charged a full first class fare.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 22 Apr 2026 ==

I’m so very glad that due to a change in my work I now visit different locations and use a variety of train companies on a regular basis.

Cross Country should have some of the best trains and longest trains on the network but they have been a disgrace for far too long.

 

[Stephen42]

One bit I do struggle with is on page 7 of accounts pack (numbered page 4) it states '.... the company has and continues to engage with its client (the DfT), customers and customer groups to ensure a positive customer experience....'

Quite how they can claim (and publish that, and auditors don't disagree) when they are locking out units and squashing everyone into part of a train, seems somewhat short of 100% truthful, as I consider locking out units on busy trains to be complete opposite (a negative experience) for the customer.

The auditors are not responsible for the other (i.e. non-financial) information and will not go looking to verify the accuracy. They will report if financial information is misstated or other information is inconsistent with the financials. Separately if the financial audit gives knowledge on other information that means they know a statement is wrong they will state that.

I'd also suggest the emphasis is engaging to deliver a positive customer experience, not that they are always successfully doing so. The reasons why units are locked out have been discussed before and can not be waved away at zero cost. Going against agreements with unions will lead to strike action, only running single units or run no trains at all (as you can't be crowded into a train that doesn't exist) will also not give a uniquely positive customer experience. Similar spending lots of money for current staff to agree for working practices changes will not deliver on their other responsibilities.

I did also query when they do the quarterly travel figures for ‘passenger kms’ for XC is including all the trains they are effectively running at 50% capacity, even though it appears to be running normally…

The passenger km figures wouldn't change unless passengers didn't travel which would be captured. The passenger train/km by the ORR includes all running; regardless of in service, partially locked out, planned or unplanned empty movements, training or route retention trips on mainline infrastructure.

 

[iamraymond]

XC take secrecy as far as practical, eg the accounts for year to 31 March 2025 were approved by the Board In July, but they withheld filing them at Companies House, so public could see them until few days before the 9 month filing limit in late December.

One bit I do struggle with is on page 7 of accounts pack (numbered page 4) it states '.... the company has and continues to engage with its client (the DfT), customers and customer groups to ensure a positive customer experience....'

Quite how they can claim (and publish that, and auditors don't disagree) when they are locking out units and squashing everyone into part of a train, seems somewhat short of 100% truthful, as I consider locking out units on busy trains to be complete opposite (a negative experience) for the customer.

The auditors are not there to disagree, it is not within their remit.

It is standard practice to file closer to the deadline as it aligns with the annual planning and accounting cycle.

 

[Starmill]

I’ve seen XC trains that are packed to the gills and people standing in the aisle of first class being told that they will have to squeeze back into the vestibules or get off, or else be charged a full first class fare.

If there's space to move out of first then yes obviously they'll be asked to move. In these cases the only place to move to would be onto the platform.

Good luck with telling 20-30 people they'll be refused travel because they're in first and don't have first class tickets...

Can't say I've come across any XC ads. I've seen Avanti, GA, LNER, GWR and SWR though. Might be geographical, but some of those others aren't exactly near me either.

There's a forum thread about the TV ad.

 

[bramling]

XC it seems refuse to disclose the "Entitlements" for their own staff ...in the public domain, of Rail Delivery Group. Wonder how XC would take to a FOI request?

I doubt XC would respond to a FOI as being a private company they are not covered by the FOI act. So if they did choose to respond it would be on a goodwill basis. They will come under FOI once renationalised, whenever that may be.

 

[alastair]

What are you unsure about?

It seems pretty clear that you are allowed soft drinks when you travel onboard if you have a FC duty or leisure pass, but not alcohol.

If you find a job advert for an XC job it will say something along the lines of "free travel on Arriva services". There doesn't seem to be any secret.

You also need to look at the non TOC specific sections of the RDG website which say you should vacate your seat for fare paying customers.

Nobody gets free alcohol in XC first class, it's not part of the food and drink offer.

​

 

[LowLevel]

I’ve seen XC trains that are packed to the gills and people standing in the aisle of first class being told that they will have to squeeze back into the vestibules or get off, or else be charged a full first class fare.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 22 Apr 2026 ==

I’m so very glad that due to a change in my work I now visit different locations and use a variety of train companies on a regular basis.

Cross Country should have some of the best trains and longest trains on the network but they have been a disgrace for far too long.

If you take it to it's ultimate argument - which I don't, but for the sake of argument - then the passengers within that carriage have the absolute discretion to pay the upgrade to first class or choose to consider that the first class carriages don't exist as a service that they have not paid to access.

Personally for me the point where you leave people behind is where the line exists as the train is no longer fulfilling it's purpose within the system, but still. The choice exists.

 

[ChilliSauce]

What are you unsure about?

It seems pretty clear that you are allowed soft drinks when you travel onboard if you have a FC duty or leisure pass, but not alcohol.

If you find a job advert for an XC job it will say something along the lines of "free travel on Arriva services". There doesn't seem to be any secret.

You also need to look at the non TOC specific sections of the RDG website which say you should vacate your seat for fare paying customers.

My point being if the facilities that XC provide to their own 1st class active or retired staff was exactly the same as say for Safeguarded then why the statement that their own staff should check internal documentation.

LNER are quite clear despite being funded by the taxpayer they do offer free food to their own staff travelling in 1st class and a similar free food for all our own staff exists on Avanti ..

Whilst some may think why should the tax payer being giving free food away without it attracting a "Benefit In Kind". Both companies are Infact being open in the public domain about the situation..

 

[AlterEgo]

XC it seems refuse to disclose the "Entitlements" for their own staff ...in the public domain, of Rail Delivery Group. Wonder how XC would take to a FOI request?

They're not subject to FOI. The entitlements of its staff are broadly the same as any other TOC. I doubt the internal document you're so exercised about contains anything interesting, but it does say a lot that your prime focus here is whether one or two members of staff might be travelling on your train for free while dozens of others also stand. Yes, they have to vacate their seats for paying passengers unless they are on duty, that was always the case when I worked there.

 

[GoneSouth]

The seats at the high numbered end of D don't have screens.

Shhhhh, don’t tell everyone

I’m struggling to predict XC these days. Went to board the 1725 from Picc a couple of days ago and to my amazement there were loads of empty seats. I was expecting to stand.

A particularly grim looking state of affairs at Bristol Temple Meads on Sunday. The 1127 5 coach 221 rolled in an hour late from Plymouth due to an emergency services incident near Dawlish, and terminated due to the delay caused. There had been multiple other delays, meaning that I'd estimate around 200 people were waiting for the 1227, running around 15 minutes late. This was announced as an 8 coach service with First Class in coaches 1 and 5. Inevitably, the rear 4 coaches were locked out of use, whilst the front 4 already had plenty of passengers from Exeter.

At least 50 people didn't board, probably nearer 70-80. I'm not sure whether this was because they couldn't, or because they decided they didn't fancy trying to wedge into standard class. I'd been heading for the Wales Coast Path around Llanelli - XC were diverting via Newport where I planned to change onto an 80x. I abruptly changed my plans and got the 12:56 to Cardiff formed of 2 X 158, accepting I'd have to do a shorter walk. An odd state of affairs when Cardiff - Portsmouth with its similar history of persistent recent overcrowding is now the sensible option.

I did see a few passengers talking to station staff after it became clear on arrival that the back 4 coaches were locked out of use. The body language was not positive. I don't envy the poor staff in these situations.

Yes, because XC don’t actually have the bothersome task of running any stations, it’s not only their staff that receive the customer backlash. I think a few back to the floor sessions for anybody with any influence at XC should be mandated, a shift at Bristol on a day like described above might be an eye opener for the great leaders at Cross Country Towers. Let’s see how they like dealing with the grief they inflict on other company’s staff.

Utterly terrible company.

 

[ChilliSauce]

They're not subject to FOI. The entitlements of its staff are broadly the same as any other TOC. I doubt the internal document you're so exercised about contains anything interesting, but it does say a lot that your prime focus here is whether one or two members of staff might be travelling on your train for free while dozens of others also stand. Yes, they have to vacate their seats for paying passengers unless they are on duty, that was always the case when I worked there.

Clearly all staff in these categories should be giving up their seats when fare payers are standing ..

 

[AlterEgo]

Clearly all staff in these categories should be giving up their seats when fare payers are standing ..

Yes, they should, if they are not on duty. (If they are on duty a duty pass should be being used anyway)

 

[Djgr]

I doubt XC would respond to a FOI as being a private company they are not covered by the FOI act. So if they did choose to respond it would be on a goodwill basis. They will come under FOI once renationalised, whenever that may be.

I think the date you are looking for is 17 October 2027

 

[sprunt]

If the reason that trains might be half empty is due to a lack of staff (which seems a ridiculous arrangement, but it's apparently where we are) then it's a little counterproductive complaining that staff benefits are too generous. Reducing them isn't going to make the job any more attractive and make recruitment easier is it?

 

[Hairyspotter]

I'm not entirely sure why the OP has such a hang up on staff travel. There's not likely to be more than one or two staff travelling on any given train under normal circumstances, and has been pointed out, the conditions of travel still require pass holders to give up seats in the event of fare paying passengers standing. Those one or two seats are barely a drop in the ocean in the wider context of the overcrowding overall.

Regarding food etc, certainly for XC drivers it is part of their employment package and a previous pay settlement that they are entitled to food and drink when travelling in 1st.

 

[KNN]

My point being if the facilities that XC provide to their own 1st class active or retired staff was exactly the same as say for Safeguarded then why the statement that their own staff should check internal documentation.

It's just a tag on at the end, it says in the piece you quoted what is generally available for staff, all the relevant information seems to be publicly available. What is it you think will be in this internal document?

If it's anything like the TOC I work for it will be specific details which aren't useful for the public and only of interest to the most ardent enthusiast.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 23 Apr 2026 ==

I'm not entirely sure why the OP has such a hang up on staff travel.

It's not even the original poster.

 

[SwindonManor]

...these are just some of my personal experiences with XC (rightfully called cross country because that's what I get every time I travel with them every time I need to go up north as they are a core non London link. However sometimes they're locking half the train, other times they have reservations issues, overcrowding often, people asking "sorry I think this is my seat" when it isn't because XC have double booked. Can't wait for their nationalisation.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 23 Apr 2026 ==

I get somewhat cheesed off by the current wave of XC's TV or YouTube adverts - they don't have anywhere near enough capacity for their existing passengers, why do they want to try to pack even more of them in? And as for it being an enjoyable trip, back in about 2010, after some horrible journeys between Reading and Birmingham, I classified XC as a company that I wouldn't travel with under any circumstances (along with Ryanair). I'll either go via London, even with the tube transfer, or I'll drive. I assume the people who produce their adverts (and probably the senior XC management) have never actually been on one of their trains and experienced just how unpleasant they actually are.

I would go via alternate operators like LNER who operate multiple trains from X Cross to Leeds/York/Newcastle/Edinburgh/Further Scotland per hour
But that involves going via a busy London

 

[Straus]

What could possibly go wrong with putting Manchester Piccadilly on the side of the late running 1501 to Macclesfield? It went 10 mins before the 1601 Manchester service, no staff in sight so I'm sure there will be a few upset people once they realise.

The 1601 to Manchester is standing room and stinks. Absolutely fed up with this service.

 

[Coleridge]

Can't wait for their nationalisation.

I'm pretty sure that nothing will change under Great English British Railways. It'll be a new name and new livery, but everything else the same (or even worse).

 

[DelW]

I would go via alternate operators like LNER who operate multiple trains from X Cross to Leeds/York/Newcastle/Edinburgh/Further Scotland per hour
But that involves going via a busy London

True, but 15 minutes (potentially) packed like sardines on the Northern Line is better than an hour and a half (potentially) packed like sardines on an XC Voyager . Plus the tube often isn't too crowded in the middle of the day, unlike XC.

 

[duffield]

I'm pretty sure that nothing will change under Great English British Railways. It'll be a new name and new livery, but everything else the same (or even worse).

The rumours seem to be that the existing franchise areas may be chopped up and reformed, possibly regionally, so that should create some fairly radical changes, particularly if XC gets dismembered. There's no guarantee that any or all changes will be positive of course, but I'm pretty sure there will be changes beyond names and liveries. There's a lot of pressure for example to remove duplicate functions between the existing franchise areas to save money, so I'd expect quite a lot of managers and back-office types might go, which should feed through for good or for ill into how services are run. If we're lucky XC upper management will be for the chop, which might be a start!

 

[IndegoMouse]

I wonder if they opened up first class to all?

 

[occone]

if XC gets dismembered

Don't raise our hopes

I don't know enough about how things work behind the scenes, so excuse my ignorance, but FFS couldn't they just train + pay staff a bit more so both train sets could run with the catering manager in the other set?

 

[duffield]

Don't raise our hopes

I don't know enough about how things work behind the scenes, so excuse my ignorance, but FFS couldn't they just train + pay staff a bit more so both train sets could run with the catering manager in the other set?

My understand is that that is how it used to work and then the XC top management unilaterally decided to "demote" the catering staff so they could no longer be the only person in one of the units (to save a small amount of money presumably?). That's certainly been reported on this forum. This is why I'm hoping that the top management will be out on their ear next October, and the catering staff might be re-instated to their former level.

 

[JamesT]

My understand is that that is how it used to work and then the XC top management unilaterally decided to "demote" the catering staff so they could no longer be the only person in one of the units (to save a small amount of money presumably?). That's certainly been reported on this forum. This is why I'm hoping that the top management will be out on their ear next October, and the catering staff might be re-instated to their former level.

Unilaterally? Or under pressure from DfT to cut costs?
Have there been any similar improvements in staffing arrangements in any other TOC that has been nationalised yet?

 

[Elecman]

Unilaterally? Or under pressure from DfT to cut costs?
Have there been any similar improvements in staffing arrangements in any other TOC that has been nationalised yet?

Dft/Treasury civil servants who know the cost of everything and the value of nothing in relation to passenger satisfaction / growing the market