Since when did the union and what they wanted have anything to do with 'what the law says (or doesn't)'?
It will be the union staffing agreement preventing use / forcing lock out.
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X country half train locked
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It will be the union staffing agreement preventing use / forcing lock out.
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Swedenorer
Member
As Billy Cotton used to say "if Mrs Bloggs of Wigan pays for my band show she expects a band show and not a hard luck story". Now to an extent I sympathise with XC as the inheritors of one of BRs more stupid ideas, X Country as it is now is trying to do the impossible and failing. For example all the services from the West Country also form the important xx24 Bristol TM service to Cheltenham and Birmingham. Unless all their trains were fully reservable they invariably run the risk of pax with walk up fares of all kinds set by other TOCs turning up and filling every space. Trouble is they can't seem to even honour the reservations they've issued while claiming to still be offering walk up access on what are effectively inter regional stopping trains by not using the resources they have - meagre though they already are. All those people in post #29 should have been given taxis - not a hard luck story and a terrible impression of a modern railway.
Tetragon213
Member
That's just XC for you. Cram us like sardines, crank up the prices to "suppress demand", and rake in the profit at the expense of non-London commuters.
This very common locking out half the train on XC is getting ridiculous. Southern have been running 171+171+171 formations daily on the London Bridge to Uckfield services for over fifteen years. The guard is allowed to be in whatever portion they chose and it has worked fine with no issues. I was on a 171+171+171 last week where the guard was in the front unit meaning that both the middle and rear units had no staff. So if it has worked fine for over fifteen years at other TOCs like Southern then why do XC insist on this ridiculous practice of locking out an entire unit and causing severe overcrowding because a staff member is unavailable. It is a joke. This is the kind of thing that gives the unions a bad reputation among passengers. XC and the unions need to get their act together and get some common sense.
Straus
Member
I think a fair point is made above - the guards seem to think passengers understand there are staffing issues and sympathise with their position, whereas the paying public couldn't care less and just want the service they paid for.
Overcrowding is bad enough at any time, but it makes you seethe with rage when theres 100% more capacity just being dragged along behind because XC can't get their act together.
I'm not a guard so there may be complications I don't understand, but it doesn't seem overly complicated to move between units during the longer dwelling stops.
Overcrowding is bad enough at any time, but it makes you seethe with rage when theres 100% more capacity just being dragged along behind because XC can't get their act together.
I'm not a guard so there may be complications I don't understand, but it doesn't seem overly complicated to move between units during the longer dwelling stops.
Tetchytyke
Veteran Member
The CEO of XC was previously “invited to leave” Royal Mail because of their issues. She then went to run HMP Amazon Prime in West Yorkshire.
All of this is a feature not a bug.
Swedenorer
Member
The CEO of XC was previously “invited to leave” Royal Mail because of their issues. She then went to run HMP Amazon Prime in West Yorkshire.
All of this is a feature not a bug.
Amanda Furlong, Interim Managing Director of UK Trains at Arriva said: “Shiona joins CrossCountry at an important time for the business, when progress is being made to improve services across the network. “Her proven track record of delivering transformational change and operational excellence will be crucial in providing the leadership needed to improve performance and drive the business forward." (Source https://www.railstaff.co.uk/2025/04/28/crosscountry-welcomes-shiona-rolfe-as-managing-director/)
Still waiting...
bahnause
Member
According to my information the Call for Aid system in a Voyager does not alert the driver and might not even be transferred to another unit.
bramling
Veteran Member
ISTR this came up before and was given as a technical reason why there needs to be a staff presence. However, rolling stock can be modified…
Snow1964
Established Member
It's not just Southern, GWR operates turbos in multiple on some lines eg Portsmouth-Cardiff. Yes XC serves exactly the same platforms at certain stations (eg Southampton, Newport etc). And the GWR stop at stations that are unstaffed at certain times too.
Actually there are few odd locations like Avoncliff (with front door only) where some trains are formed of pairs of units without through gangways, guards happily move to other unit at nearby stations.
Quite why XC needs or agreed to this idea when it isn't used by other operators (even at same stations) is something I don't understand. Passengers will never understand, half the train, not half the fare.
Is it just a feature of unrefurbished voyagers, which could be modified
I've stopped using XC now, unless it is unavoidable. Seat reservation chaos, staffing issues, 1/2 trains, terrible overcrowding, delays... the sooner the company is gone the better IMHO. Next trip LDS-SOU is via London. Slightly longer, and the tube strikes might complicate things, but no more stinking, rammed, unpleasant XC.
Tetragon213
Member
Same here. Whenever I travel between the Midlands and my family down South, I typically go out of my way to travel via London. Surprisingly, it sometimes works out marginally cheaper to go via London than it does to use ClownCountry via Reading.
Although, going via Reading and using ClownCountry does also mean an increased possibility of Delay Repay...
KNN
Member
Also, as discussed previously on the forum, for XC they insist on it being two guards while Avanti/Virgin used a guard and a caterer on the same stock.
voyagerdude220
Established Member
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Cross Country used to have Retail Service Managers taking the responsibility of being the only member of Staff on the front of a double 22x formation at times when a second Train Manager wasn't available but I believe unions brought an end to this because of a pay dispute. (I could be wrong what caused the practice to cease but it certainly used to happen.)
Even back in Virgin Trains days they used to regularly have 2x221s in service with only a TM in the rear set and catering staff in the front. I believe this arrangement still happens today with some of their 10 car Everos.
It's pretty standard in the UK, I think XC and EMR are the outliers in having a full train manager on both of a pair of trains - the difference I imagine is that with EMR this has been the case for over 20 years since MML introduced the 222s which means the establishment number is up to date with the staffing need, whereas until comparatively recently XC were using caterers routinely.
Swedenorer
Member
If that is correct and it's been allowed to continue someone's head should roll.
What a high percentage of corporate speak buzzwords in that quote!
They also have the short end of the stick when it comes to delays, as some of the routes are so long. The trains (or some of them) are very shabby inside as well, though it was a far better choice going XC from Edinburgh to Penzance in one day than driving over 2 or 3
It's all a very tragic state of affairs. For all their own issues, GWR have got around this issue just fine with 10-car IETs; it might not be the most efficient approach (Front Set Leads), but at least they are not routinely locking out half of the train.
Every time you think XC can't get worse from their ranking (IMO, but it's probably a shared one!) as the worst TOC, they keep doing things to cement their position. They've been dealt a bad hand, but they don't help themselves. And it's the passenger that ultimately suffers.
Every time you think XC can't get worse from their ranking (IMO, but it's probably a shared one!) as the worst TOC, they keep doing things to cement their position. They've been dealt a bad hand, but they don't help themselves. And it's the passenger that ultimately suffers.
They don't rake in the profit, all fare revenue goes to the Treasury.
Which no where near covers the expenditure of such operations.
Me too.
I used to use the XC route when travelling down south to Reading from Penrith but it was so horrendous that I gave up on it and now travel AWC to Euston and then walk across to Paddington. It is a bit more expensive but frankly it's worth every penny especially on the return leg. I really dreaded the XC bit from Reading to Wolverhampton.
Jim the Jim
Member
What would be the point in having reservations for them to cease to apply when the train is busy!
Snow1964
Established Member
I am missing something here looking at XC trains latest accounts, appears they do make a profit
Fare Income £519,124,000
Gross Profit £49,471,000
Operating profit £3,621,000
Franchise subsidy £28,222,000 less £3,991,000
Profit before tax £4,438,000
Tax on profit £1,332,000
Profit for year 3,206,000
XC TRAINS LIMITED filing history - Find and update company information - GOV.UK
XC TRAINS LIMITED - Free company information from Companies House including registered office address, filing history, accounts, annual return, officers, charges, business activity
find-and-update.company-information.service.gov.uk
Dr Hoo
Established Member
The ‘ac
The ‘Accounts’ simply perpetuate the polite fiction that CrossCountry ‘keep’ a single penny of the revenue. It goes to the DfT.I am missing something here looking at XC trains latest accounts, appears they do make a profit
Fare Income £519,124,000
Gross Profit £49,471,000
Operating profit £3,621,000
Franchise subsidy £28,222,000 less £3,991,000
Profit before tax £4,438,000
Tax on profit £1,332,000
Profit for year 3,206,000
XC TRAINS LIMITED filing history - Find and update company information - GOV.UK
XC TRAINS LIMITED - Free company information from Companies House including registered office address, filing history, accounts, annual return, officers, charges, business activity
ChilliSauce
On Moderation
- Joined
- 28 Oct 2025
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- 328
What is also out of the public domain is the reduced price / free rail travel that XC offer / provide to their staff on XC services. Given they are staff then hopefully they are required to give up seats if fare payers are standing ...but who knows .. hidden behind a cloak of XC secrecy
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My thoughts are these: in an effort to improve availability on the core XC routes ...do XC actually have to operate west of Exeter? ....could GWR carry customers onwards towards Penzance?
And do XC have to operate North of York? Is their capacity for LNER & Transpennine tocarry customers onwards towards Scotland .? .
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Snow1964
Established Member
XC take secrecy as far as practical, eg the accounts for year to 31 March 2025 were approved by the Board In July, but they withheld filing them at Companies House, so public could see them until few days before the 9 month filing limit in late December.
One bit I do struggle with is on page 7 of accounts pack (numbered page 4) it states '.... the company has and continues to engage with its client (the DfT), customers and customer groups to ensure a positive customer experience....'
Quite how they can claim (and publish that, and auditors don't disagree) when they are locking out units and squashing everyone into part of a train, seems somewhat short of 100% truthful, as I consider locking out units on busy trains to be complete opposite (a negative experience) for the customer.
To be fair, I am pretty sure every operator offers free travel to their staff on their own network, so XC are not alone in this regard, and it shouldn’t have any impact to the normal passenger.
== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: ==
I did also query when they do the quarterly travel figures for ‘passenger kms’ for XC is including all the trains they are effectively running at 50% capacity, even though it appears to be running normally…
KNN
Member
Indeed and I don't think it can be called secret when it's in job adverts.
Because, so often, that will happen regardless of whether or not first gets declassified...
It's not actually true that XC never declassify first. They will try to sell upgrades to people at the weekend, or they may move the odd person with booked assistance who would otherwise have to be found a seat in standard into a first class seat. But they usually won't declassify first proactively it's true.
But it is declassified still when the alternative is leaving people behind. This is pretty common on four cars, or 4+4 where one unit is locked out. Once it becomes a matter of people not getting onto the train they will fill up first class. A few train managers come through the aisle to shout at people who do this, though most don't, and even the ones who do are generally ignored or told to eff off (or worse) and that's the end of it. Once that's happened the train manager is supposed to report the conditions and advise that first should be declassified for part or all of the journey. They may sometimes not do this, which then creates an issue for customers with first class tickets who want to claim a partial refund, because customer service can't see the log entry.
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