Wrexham & Shropshire successful

[37401]

got this e-mail from WSMR today

Dear Sir / Madam,



I am writing in response to your message of support on the website of the Wrexham & Shropshire railway.



First of all, thank you so much for offering us your support. It was enormously appreciated by everyone here at Wrexham & Shropshire. More importantly, it helped demonstrate the strength of feeling about Virgin’s proposal. I’m delighted to tell you that you were successful, and that Virgin announced that they would not be progressing with their proposal. Thank you!



As a result of this, we are able to focus on growing and improving Wrexham & Shropshire. We have a lot of exciting plans which we are working on. Given that you signed up regarding the Virgin threat, I will not email you again unless there is something else critical to our future. However, I’d be delighted if you signed up to our mailing list so we can keep you up-to-date with our plans and promotions. Just visit our website at www.wrexhamandshropshire.co.uk and enter your email address into the box at the bottom.



Once again, thank you so much for your support – I very much hope we continue to exceed your expectations for many years to come.



All the best,





Thomas Ableman



PS – we’re thinking of setting up a community travel club. This would be designed as a way for people in the different towns we serve to get together and enjoy days out in each others’ company. If this is something you would be interested in helping us establish, please email my colleague Chris Rowlands at chris.rowlands@wrexhamandshropshire.co.uk





Thomas Ableman

Marketing Director

Wrexham and Shropshire

so the "small fry" beat the "fat cat" once again

 

[Geezertronic]

so the "small fry" beat the "fat cat" once again

I personally wouldn't say W&S were "small fry" and VT were the "fat cat" to be honest...

 

[37401]

I personally wouldn't say W&S were "small fry" and VT were the "fat cat" to be honest...

true, just felt like saying that phrase , i supose money-wise its like that, i prefer WSMR to Virgin though

 

[steve099]

I just picked this up; odd because I'm not sure I 'supported' WSMR, but I am on their mailing list.

As a result of this, we are able to focus on growing and improving Wrexham & Shropshire. We have a lot of exciting plans which we are working on.

This bit does atleast signal some hope, though I hope it does mean more trains a day in the works, because that is after all what was lost by Virgin pulling out.

 

[ukrob]

What is this post about?

W&S successful at what?

 

[37401]

What is this post about?

W&S successful at what?

beating Virgin as Virgin started there own services from London to Wrexham but only after
WSMR did it, so virgin were trying to beat WSMR but they lost and WSMR were successful

 

[The Planner]

Has the Wrexham Euston Virgin service stopped then ... ??

 

[ukrob]

What is this post about?

W&S successful at what?

beating Virgin as Virgin started there own services from London to Wrexham but only after
WSMR did it, so virgin were trying to beat WSMR but they lost and WSMR were successful

That doesn't answer the question. Have Virgin pulled their Wrexham services? If not, how can you claim that W&S have 'won' ?

 

[37401]

That doesn't answer the question. Have Virgin pulled their Wrexham services? If not, how can you claim that W&S have 'won' ?

im not WSMR are claiming they have won

 

[ukrob]

im not WSMR are claiming they have won

Thats what I don't understand. I have no idea what they think they have 'won'

 

[steve099]

That doesn't answer the question. Have Virgin pulled their Wrexham services? If not, how can you claim that W&S have 'won' ?

Virgin have not pulled their Wrexham-Chester-Euston services, they have withdrawn plans to run Shrewsbury-Birmingham-Euston services which would have competed to a greater extent with WSMR.

 

[ukrob]

Virgin have not pulled their Wrexham-Chester-Euston services, they have withdrawn plans to run Shrewsbury-Birmingham-Euston services which would have competed to a greater extent with WSMR.

I know - but that was a good six weeks ago, and the email in this thread was sent today, hence the confusion.

 

[tbtc]

As said above, this is six week old news, and W&S are still running fewer services than before...

 

[TDK]

Has the Wrexham Euston Virgin service stopped then ... ??

It was in platform 1 at Wrexham tonight at 20.45 and about 15 passengers got off. So it is still running. I think the poster of the original message is out of touch and maybe a tad childish with this " they won" at the time WSMR did quote they had won against VT but this was for the Shrewsbury - London proposal. As quoted this was 6 weeks ago

 

[merlodlliw]

The VT service is a one years trial from Wrexham at 0700 M/F and return ex Euston 1810. So deep questions are being asked,as the year ends in Dec.

Both services were only able to run due to ATW giving it two paths, the 15 quoted on the return to Wrexham would have been the same amount,had ATW runs its DMU from Chester, now anyone off the VT going to stations to Shrewsbury must change at Wrexham to the ATW DMU, I note on many occasions when the VT is late into Wrexham the ATW is not held and passengers have to wait sometimes an hour for the next ATW from Chester.

The same situation is on the up line, ATW stations to Wrexham,then change to the VT . When I travel on this service ex Wrexham 0700 the majority of the 20 or so passengers get off at Chester leaving about five on the VT who appear to get off at Crewe along with me.

Difficult to assess how many go to London or return on this service as its also used as a local service both ways, my guess is very few. Due to VTs pricing.

As for W/S the open access service, the M.D told us extra carriages would be added before extra services, over Whit this occurred.

Anyhow to run any real service Wrexham to London via Chester we need double lines, or the magic dynamic curves which seem to be NRs answer but will not solve late running trains.

 

[The Planner]

Anyhow to run any real service Wrexham to London via Chester we need double lines, or the magic dynamic curves which seem to be NRs answer but will not solve late running trains.

How can infrastructure solve late running trains ?? what utter nonsense. There are so many factors to a late running train it is untrue. The Wrexham Saltney scheme is about CAPACITY, not solving late running.

 

[merlodlliw]

How can infrastructure solve late running trains ?? what utter nonsense. There are so many factors to a late running train it is untrue. The Wrexham Saltney scheme is about CAPACITY, not solving late running.

Dynamic Curves are useless to late running trains if they can not get on the curve in their slot due to late running. Is my understanding

 

[Geezertronic]

The Wrexham train ex Euston at 1810 is a double Super Voyager that splits at Chester with the 1st SV going to Holyhead and the 2nd SV going to Wrexham.

 

[The Planner]

Dynamic Curves are useless to late running trains if they can not get on the curve in their slot due to late running. Is my understanding

Well thats obvious, if a train misses its slot due to it being late, infrastructure isnt going to get it back to time, a signallers action will. A late train on any line will get held back the majority of the time so surrounding services dont become impacted by it. In the case of Wrexham Saltney, it doesnt matter if it was double tracked all the way through, a late train would still need to find a margin at Saltney to get out, and in the other direction, probably at Salop.

 

[merlodlliw]

But dont these dynamic curves create more of a problem than double track
all the way, if stock is late running?, anyhow according to the Transport
Director of WCBC, there is no way the bridge will be double tracked, as he
can not see the A483 (Wrexham bypass) being closed to carry out foundation
work. Just to think this bridge built single track,saved a mere £165K 20 years ago. This would never occur now, as Wrexham was controlled from Mold
at that time (CCC) and of course the Cardiff based Welsh Office.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

The Wrexham train ex Euston at 1810 is a double Super Voyager that splits at Chester with the 1st SV going to Holyhead and the 2nd SV going to Wrexham.

agree, the second units act as a replacement local that was given up by ATW
to let the VT use the single track into Wrexham. The VT is on a years trial to see what passenger traffic it can get,according to VT.

 

[The Planner]

Only very slighty more, as you still get the option to get the train out of Wrexham onto either of the two planned double sections. Thus allowing a train south from Saltney or into Wrexham, the same in reverse if it was late out of Chester.

I find it hard to believe that the A483 would need to be closed completely to do that work, contraflow operation would probably be sufficient. The fact is that double tracking all the way is going to cost too much and not provide the required CBR ratio anyway.

There are normally clauses in road building contracts/acts that say that if in the future a railway needs re-doubling or widening over or under a new road that the Highways Agency have to pay for it. Though I dont think these have ever been acted on.

 

[emoaconr]

But dont these dynamic curves create more of a problem than double track
all the way, if stock is late running?, anyhow according to the Transport
Director of WCBC, there is no way the bridge will be double tracked, as he
can not see the A483 (Wrexham bypass) being closed to carry out foundation
work. Just to think this bridge built single track,saved a mere £165K 20 years ago. This would never occur now, as Wrexham was controlled from Mold
at that time (CCC) and of course the Cardiff based Welsh Office.

Clwyd County Council would have had to have followed the same planning procedures as now, as planning permission would have to have been granted by Wrexham Maelor Borough Council, who obviously supported CCC's proposals. Wrexham CBC is still obviously just as biased against future rail development by producing that statement.

Clwyd did what was right at the time, since the railways were in decline and the road network in the county was in desperate need of upgrading. Unfortunately, very few saw the future increase in capacity that would occur 25 or so years later. It was Wrexham Maelor Borough Council that would have granted planning permission to build the infrastructure for the A483; the county councils are not responsible for planning. The base of CCC in Mold here has no relevance, since the planning issues were in the hands of WMBC based in Wrexham; only the transport plans would have been devised in Mold. Both CCC and WMBC failed to see the future investment in the railways. CCC had huge financial difficulties also, so cutting any corners was their top priority; they were near broke by 1996.

To be honest, you can hardly blame them, since the bypass was a huge success.

 

[SouthEastern-465]

virgin try and beat everyone at everything,anyway thats my opinion

virgin are very childish,if some company does somthing they have to make the same thing just bigger and better,and try and out-perform everything.

 

[ukrob]

virgin try and beat everyone at everything,anyway thats my opinion

The same can be said of almost any business

 

[merlodlliw]

To be honest, you can hardly blame them, since the bypass was a huge success.

I fully agree with you, however 20 years later, this bypass now has chronic
queing problems at the end of it (Rossett to the A55) also we now have
the farce of the new tarmac just laid on both lanes(Ruabon) on the later
built Chirk by pass section) having to be ripped up, due to inferior tarmac
being laid and now replaced, with even more chaos.

However back to the rail, I am not sure about your District Council and County Council statement, also I am sure the Welsh Office was involved.
Ill have a look in the library out of interest, I do recall all hell being let
loose by WMDC when BR singled the track over a weekend.
John Marick was labour MP for Wrexham at the time sponsored by the
then NUR, Wrexham Council was also Labour, so I am sure both were
against the single track. Anyhow thanks for the banter.

 

[TDK]

To be honest, you can hardly blame them, since the bypass was a huge success.

I fully agree with you, however 20 years later, this bypass now has chronic
queing problems at the end of it (Rossett to the A55) also we now have
the farce of the new tarmac just laid on both lanes(Ruabon) on the later
built Chirk by pass section) having to be ripped up, due to inferior tarmac
being laid and now replaced, with even more chaos.

However back to the rail, I am not sure about your District Council and County Council statement, also I am sure the Welsh Office was involved.
Ill have a look in the library out of interest, I do recall all hell being let
loose by WMDC when BR singled the track over a weekend.
John Marick was labour MP for Wrexham at the time sponsored by the
then NUR, Wrexham Council was also Labour, so I am sure both were
against the single track. Anyhow thanks for the banter.[/QUOTE]

I heard it was an error by a strutural engineer when the bridge was designed, aparently he thought 2 tracks meant 2 rails and designed the bridge accordingly as all the other bridges on the route were installed allowing for double track apart from 1.

 

[merlodlliw]

I heard it was an error by a strutural engineer when the bridge was designed, aparently he thought 2 tracks meant 2 rails and designed the bridge accordingly as all the other bridges on the route were installed allowing for double track apart from 1.

Yes but the £165K saving on the single line bridge 20 years ago, keeps on
surfacing. I think I am right in saying this single span bridge is the only one
on the Welsh side, all other overpasses etc are in East Cheshire/Chester area.
So perhaps different consultants etc.
The two track idea,well perhaps,have not heard that one.

 

[tbtc]

Yes but the £165K saving on the single line bridge 20 years ago, keeps on surfacing

Only because you keep on mentioning it

The saving may have been £165k twenty years ago, but that's probably close to half a million pounds in today's money... (given inflation)

 

[me123]

Try £310,000 (source)

 

[merlodlliw]

Try £310,000 (source)

well perhaps I do keep saying it, fools money then, at least a £M to redo it now.