Wrexham redouble

[The Informer]

Drop in session at Rossett tomorrow Tue 29th between 3pm and 7pm. I may go along for a nosey!

 

[merlodlliw]

Drop in session at Rossett tomorrow Tue 29th between 3pm and 7pm. I may go along for a nosey!

I appreciate the four or five NR Cardiff staff will be getting an ear bashing from locals about the crossings and Colas staff blocking station Rd Rossett(own goal)
but have a look at the drawings,last time they included the 2.5 miles from Gresford Junction to Wrexham General, I asked about this and was told the knife was put in at Rossett,without new plans being drawn up.
I found the NR staff helpful and understanding.
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An interview on the redouble from the Secretary of the line partnership, was broadcast on BBC radio Wales this morning.
This is a short message I have sent to Shrewsbury/Chester line users Assoc

Excellent radio interview this morning on Radio Wales(National), Sheila Dee of the line Partnership gave an excellent case for the Wrexham North Station,loss of the 2.5 miles of dual track between Gresford North and Wrexham General preventing extra capacity.

Sheila in the interview mentioned little thought had been given to the £44million massive scheme for Wrexham area travel to work to Liverpool/Manchester and the West Midlands, Sheila said "things have moved on since scheme was announced last May", Now we have the Super Prison with 2K inmates who will have visitors,a hub South of Rossett would help alleviate traffic on the A483,prevent snall ups(my words) at Wrexham General station that will be caused by buses from the Prison,plus adding to already overcrowded trains.

Sheila touched on the present scheme,although it will help cut 16 minutes off a journey North/South Wales, it does nothing for Wrexham leaving no capacity for future half hourly trains to where people want to travel to via Chester.

The interview was very well balanced,with our case being broadcast all over Wales, it is available on I player, the broadcast was five minutes start 0724.

Obviously more was discussed, this is my potted version from memory.

Bob

 

[The Informer]

To be fair Bob i haven't seen any Contractors blocking Station Rd. They actually wont tolerate any vehicles parking outside the compound and even open the foot crossing gates for the public and guide them across.

 

[merlodlliw]

To be fair Bob i haven't seen any Contractors blocking Station Rd. They actually wont tolerate any vehicles parking outside the compound and even open the foot crossing gates for the public and guide them across.

There was a problem a few weeks ago,but it appears to have been sorted,however a few at Rossett who want the entire railway removed,will never be happy, met one at the first drop in.
As others have said it was Rossett residents who campaigned for the A483 by pass & as a result the track was singled.

 

[berneyarms]

I appreciate the four or five NR Cardiff staff will be getting an ear bashing from locals about the crossings and Colas staff blocking station Rd Rossett(own goal)
but have a look at the drawings,last time they included the 2.5 miles from Gresford Junction to Wrexham General, I asked about this and was told the knife was put in at Rossett,without new plans being drawn up.
I found the NR staff helpful and understanding.

I generally find these sort of meetings the most informative of the lot, because you're talking with industry professionals rather than politicians looking for a vote!!!

 

[merlodlliw]

I generally find these sort of meetings the most informative of the lot, because you're talking with industry professionals rather than politicians looking for a vote!!!

I found by talking to the engineers both Colas & NR without members of the public present gave an insight into the few pros and many cons of the scheme, although the NR Media person had his script. Well worth a visit.
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How the Wrexham Daily Leader reported the Network Rail Rossett event,

Rail upgrade is derailing our lives, say villagers
Published date: 30 July 2014 | Published by: Rory Sheehan



RESIDENTS attending a Network Rail event hit out at the disruption caused by work on a £44m scheme.

Rossett villagers have previously reported that work under way to improve the Wrexham to Chester line was causing traffic chaos outside their homes.

The changes will see 5.5 mile stretch of line ‘re-doubled’ between Rossett and Saltney Junction.

The issues raised previously included the road being blocked by a flow of large vehicles and workmen parking on the road instead of in a designated compound.

The consultation event at Rossett and Burton Village Hall yesterday saw a large turn-out with people registering their views to the rail company representatives.

Cllr Hugh Jones, who represents the Rossett ward on Wrexham Council, said it has been “chaotic” and “shambolic”.

“Even by their own admission, Network Rail have admitted they have had problems.

“I’d like to see a proper plan and timetable in place. I want them to properly engage with residents before they carry out work.”

Farmer David Willis from Burton said he was concerned about potential road closures: “It will be chaos for the village. I’ve not been reassured at all.

“Station Road has already been shut. You can walk through but you can’t drive through.

“We need to get to Rossett as there are no shops in Burton at all – so we’re being cut off.

“On a busy day, 50 to 80 tractors go over the bridge but they will all have to go through the centre of the village.”

Peter Maddocks, 65, from Llay, said: “I’ve come along just to see why they are only doubling the line as far as Rossett and not all the way to Wrexham.

“Wrexham is the third largest conurbation in Wales. We’re still only on a single track – yet places like Newport are getting the benefit of electrified tracks.”

A spokesman for Network Rail at the event, said: “Most of the concerns surround traffic and we are asking contractors to park at a compound in Rossett or Balderton.

“The workers are then shuttled to the site by minibus to minimise disruption.

“The biggest deliveries are still coming by rail but we’ll still have to have some road vehicles over the next fortnight which will be busy and traffic might be heavier than normal. After that, work should slow down. We have sent out letters to the community and advertised events like this to allow people to come to us with their concerns and drop by. We also have a 24 hour helpline and all concerns are logged and dealt with.”

 

[TDK]

I found by talking to the engineers both Colas & NR without members of the public present gave an insight into the few pros and many cons of the scheme, although the NR Media person had his script. Well worth a visit.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
How the Wrexham Daily Leader reported the Network Rail Rossett event,

So it is just the people of Rossett whining about access and not the real problem that the £44m is a complete waste of money then?

 

[merlodlliw]

So it is just the people of Rossett whining about access and not the real problem that the £44m is a complete waste of money then?

In Fairness Peter Maddocks has made a comment about the Scheme.

Just recieved this from Arriva Trains, For Rail Uk members information about the blockade

Changes to published services between Wrexham General and Chester Saturday 2 to Sunday 10 August 2014

Dear Customer

There will be changes to published services between Wrexham General, Chester and Shrewsbury from Saturday 2 to Sunday 10 August. This is due to Network Rail’s improvement work to provide an additional track between Wrexham General and Chester. This will lead to an improvement in punctuality in the future.

The work will affect your journey if you are using the following Arriva Trains Wales services between

South Wales / Shrewsbury and Holyhead
Birmingham International and Holyhead
We apologise for any inconvenience this may cause you.

Rail replacement bus services will be running between Wrexham General and Chester. For further information, please click here and check rail replacement bus timetable posters at stations.
Services from South Wales to North Wales will terminate at Wrexham General and restart at Chester and vice versa. Services will run as in the published timetable except for some minor re-timings in the evening to provide connections into other services. Please check your journey before setting out.
For travel from South Wales/Shrewsbury to stations along the North Wales Coast/Holyhead, passengers are advised to travel on the South Wales to Manchester service and change trains at Crewe. For southbound journeys the opposite applies. Journeys may take between 30 and 60 minutes longer.
Daytime off-peak services (from approximately 9am to 4pm) between Birmingham International/Shrewsbury and Chester/Holyhead will be diverted via Crewe calling at all stations between Shrewsbury and Crewe. Journeys may take up to 15 minutes longer.
A shuttle train service will operate between Shrewsbury and Wrexham General calling at Gobowen, Chirk and Ruabon and vice versa that will connect into and out of services to Birmingham International at Shrewsbury. Some trains will run earlier or later than the published timetable. Please check your journey before setting out.
The information above is valid on Mondays to Saturdays. Routes and timings on Sundays will be different.
For further information and rail replacement bus timetable, please click here.

We regret that dogs (except guide dogs), cycles, prams and large items of luggage cannot be carried on replacement bus services.

 

[berneyarms]

Your quotation marks are getting mixed up again - I think you're jinxing the system somehow!!

Virgin also have a notice on their website:

Wrexham to Chester

Routes:
London & West Midlands - Chester & North Wales

Date: From Monday 04 August until Friday 08 August

What is happening?


The following trains services are cancelled:


07:00 Wrexham to Chester


20:22 Chester to Wrexham


Alternative route:


Rail replacement coaches between the two stations, will be provided by Arriva Trains Wales.

 

[merlodlliw]

Your quotation marks are getting mixed up again - I think you're jinxing the system somehow!!

Virgin also have a notice on their website:

Yes too many quotes,ill remove it when the system allows,

 

[HowardGWR]

Is there a nice map shewing what's to be done please, not detailed, just the stretches involved?

 

[Squaddie]

Peter Maddocks, 65, from Llay, said: "I’ve come along just to see why they are only doubling the line as far as Rossett and not all the way to Wrexham.

"Wrexham is the third largest conurbation in Wales..."

It looks like "Peter Maddocks" may have been briefed by certain forum members.

Wrexham isn't the third-largest conurbation in Wales: by almost any measure you care to use, Cardiff, Swansea and Newport are bigger than Wrexham. The Office for National Statistics says that the Wrexham urban area is the 7th largest in Wales. If you consider cities, counties and county boroughs by population, then Wrexham is only the 10th largest.

 

[merlodlliw]

Is there a nice map shewing what's to be done please, not detailed, just the stretches involved?

You will find a drawing on this page "Network Rail speaks to Rossett", http://www.nwrail.org.uk/nw1405c.htm best I can do on an open website,otherwise PM me.

 

[Gareth Marston]

Drove back from Liverpool airport in early hours passed Rosset on A483 around 0200 lights and machinery in evidence along whole stretch back to bridge over railway.

 

[merlodlliw]

Todays Wrexham Daily "The Leader" has run two articles on the proposed axing of trains, one from Jill Seymour MEP below

.
PROPOSALS to axe morning train services from Wrexham have been
called "a kick in the teeth". lill Seymour, MEP, condemned Arriva
Trains Wales plans to withdraw its morning service from Wrexham to
Birmingham, calling at Chirk and Gohowen. while a feeder service from
Shrewsbury at 7am into North Wales is also facing the chop when new
timetables come into force next year.
It comes as Oswestry Town Council also slammed the proposal.
Mrs Seymour said: "Arriva Trains Wales insists this new timetable is still
under development and has yet to be agreed.
"The company says it will listen to feedback from customers as part of the
consultation process but it is blatantly obvious what that feedback is going to
say. Rail travellers in Shropshire who have used this commuter service for
many years will be furious at the news."
The West Midlands representative added: "It is another kick in the teeth
to rural commuters at a time when they are being urged to use public
transport. What are they to do if it barely exists at the time they need it
most?"
Following last week's meeting, Oswestry Town Council resolved to
express its own concern to Arriva and to North Shropshire MP Owen
Paterson.
Councillor Martin Bennett said: "The council felt this would be a bad step. It
represents a loss of services which seems to be a typical attitude of large
companies to small rural areas." '
He added: "It is not simply a matter of getting to Birmingham, it is the
stops in between and people who may be inconveniences because they can't
get to Wellington or Telford in the same wav as they used to."

The other was from another Politician in North East Wales,concerned about the proposed axing of trains in North East Wales,

 

[PHILIPE]

And the withdrawal of a train from Llandudno at 06 34 which is also the subject of strong complaint.

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

Drove back from Liverpool airport in early hours passed Rosset on A483 around 0200 lights and machinery in evidence along whole stretch back to bridge over railway.

Plenty of action today, though difficult to see from the road.
A class 66 and train was parked under the A483 overbridge.
All the level crossings said "Road Closed" although they were in fact open, at least when I went by.
Many road-railers and much new ballast in evidence at Balderton.

 

[merlodlliw]

And the withdrawal of a train from Llandudno at 06 34 which is also the subject of strong complaint.

Heres the other media release,printed in today's Leader.








MEDIA RELEASE / DATGANIAD I'R CYFRYNGAU
Release / Rhyddhau: 5th August 2014
Contact / Cyswllt Removed

N Wales needs better transport links with England after five northern cities outline £15bn plan says AM

North Wales Liberal Democrat AM Aled Roberts is calling on the Welsh Government to give more priority to improving rail and road links with Manchester and Liverpool.

Mr Roberts’ call came after the England’s Northern Cities announcement that they are bidding for a £15 billion plan to improve transport links was backed by the Chancellor, George Osborne.

“In June the Chancellor called for the creation of a ‘northern global powerhouse,’” commented Aled Roberts. “And now the northern cities are making a similar call it seems likely that the Chancellor’s Autumn Statement will contain some major financial commitments to improve transport.

“If the Welsh Government continues their policy of concentrating only on improving transport links between north and south Wales, then we in North Wales could lose out on a golden opportunity to benefit from major investment in England’s North West.

“Already large numbers of people commute from North Wales to the Liverpool and Manchester conurbations but commuting is a nightmare as a result of road congestion and the lack of direct commuting trains.

“Indeed from December, if current plans are maintained, we are likely to lose a key commuting service from Llandudno to Manchester and I have written to both the Welsh Government’s transport minister and Arriva Trains Wales to try and save it.

“Just one per cent of the £1,000,000m that is being spent on improving the M4 around Newport could give Wrexham direct train services to Manchester and Liverpool. Only £10m more is required to dual most of the line between Wrexham and Chester so that more trains can run".




ENDS

 

[frodshamfella]

Heres the other media release,printed in today's Leader.








MEDIA RELEASE / DATGANIAD I'R CYFRYNGAU
Release / Rhyddhau: 5th August 2014
Contact / Cyswllt Removed

N Wales needs better transport links with England after five northern cities outline £15bn plan says AM

North Wales Liberal Democrat AM Aled Roberts is calling on the Welsh Government to give more priority to improving rail and road links with Manchester and Liverpool.

Mr Roberts’ call came after the England’s Northern Cities announcement that they are bidding for a £15 billion plan to improve transport links was backed by the Chancellor, George Osborne.

“In June the Chancellor called for the creation of a ‘northern global powerhouse,’” commented Aled Roberts. “And now the northern cities are making a similar call it seems likely that the Chancellor’s Autumn Statement will contain some major financial commitments to improve transport.

“If the Welsh Government continues their policy of concentrating only on improving transport links between north and south Wales, then we in North Wales could lose out on a golden opportunity to benefit from major investment in England’s North West.

“Already large numbers of people commute from North Wales to the Liverpool and Manchester conurbations but commuting is a nightmare as a result of road congestion and the lack of direct commuting trains.

“Indeed from December, if current plans are maintained, we are likely to lose a key commuting service from Llandudno to Manchester and I have written to both the Welsh Government’s transport minister and Arriva Trains Wales to try and save it.

“Just one per cent of the £1,000,000m that is being spent on improving the M4 around Newport could give Wrexham direct train services to Manchester and Liverpool. Only £10m more is required to dual most of the line between Wrexham and Chester so that more trains can run".




ENDS

Interesting, this is what I thought with respect to the Welsh Government wanting better access to Liverpool ( and Manchester) and therefore backing Halton Curve, which was what I suggested on the Halton Curve posting on here. Thanks for clarification.

Carl

 

[adrock1976]

Just a thought with how the north of Wales seems to miss out a lot on decisions made at Cardiff.

Have the people residing in Gwynedd and Clwyd ever held a mock referendum to declare independence from Cardiff? It would get the establishment to sit up and take notice of the concerns of North Wales far more seriously than they do at present.

In peace

Adam

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

Just a thought with how the north of Wales seems to miss out a lot on decisions made at Cardiff.
Have the people residing in Gwynedd and Clwyd ever held a mock referendum to declare independence from Cardiff? It would get the establishment to sit up and take notice of the concerns of North Wales far more seriously than they do at present.

We had a real referendum in 1997 and Clwyd (along with all the Marches counties) voted against devolution - but we got it anyway.
Cardiff is fractionally closer than London, but Manchester, Liverpool and Birmingham are much closer - in spirit as well as geographically. Even Dublin is at about the same distance from here.
The devolution tide is still running, unfortunately. A lot depends on what happens in Scotland.
The Halton Curve is typical of the regional issues that impact on Wales as much as any of the local communities.
People also forget that Arriva Trains Wales services are not the plaything of Cardiff Bay.
The WG are equally responsible for developing services in the English Marches counties as per the franchise contract.
While they do a decent job of that, the local (Welsh) politicians are inclined to forget this fact.
In my view it was a mistake to brand ATW solely as a Welsh operator, because it isn't.
The new road layout at the England/Wales border at Shotwick has an stylised Welsh dragon heading west, and an English lion heading east.
ATW stock needs to have an English lion logo as well as the Welsh Dragon...

 

[Squaddie]

Have the people residing in Gwynedd and Clwyd ever held a mock referendum to declare independence from Cardiff? It would get the establishment to sit up and take notice of the concerns of North Wales far more seriously than they do at present.

Three-quarters of the population of Wales lives in the south, thirteen of the fifteen most populous towns in Wales are in the south, and most Welsh industry is in the south: therefore, most of the public money invested in Wales is inevitably spent in the south. That doesn't mean that north and mid Wales don't get their fair share or that they are ignored by Cardiff.

No matter what the Welsh Government does, certain contributors to this forum will find something to complain about. It's political.

 

[Railman]

Is it not true that all of these problems, about funding and stock shortages are just the symptoms of de-nationalisation. looking at small local issues and not the big picture. If you want to bring in employment and and tourism, by definition you need good transport to/from other areas. England, Scotland and Wales are too small to each have there own "trainsets".

 

[TDK]

Three-quarters of the population of Wales lives in the south, thirteen of the fifteen most populous towns in Wales are in the south, and most Welsh industry is in the south: therefore, most of the public money invested in Wales is inevitably spent in the south. That doesn't mean that north and mid Wales don't get their fair share or that they are ignored by Cardiff.

No matter what the Welsh Government does, certain contributors to this forum will find something to complain about. It's political.

Where and what is your source on this information?

 

[kieron]

The Halton Curve is typical of the regional issues that impact on Wales as much as any of the local communities.

As is the road by the white dragon you mentioned, which the WG paid a surprisingly large amount towards even though almost all of the work for that section was in Cheshire.

People also forget that Arriva Trains Wales services are not the plaything of Cardiff Bay.

And how much of what they do is controlled by decisions taken by Alistair Darling.

The WG are equally responsible for developing services in the English Marches counties as per the franchise contract.
While they do a decent job of that, the local (Welsh) politicians are inclined to forget this fact.

Local politicians are always interested in proposals to spend more public money in their areas, as that's one of the things which gets them favourable coverage in local papers.

While this particular politician nominally represents North Wales, he's from Wrexham, something which may have influenced the specific suggestions he makes.

 

[Gareth Marston]

As is the road by the white dragon you mentioned, which the WG paid a surprisingly large amount towards even though almost all of the work for that section was in Cheshire.

And how much of what they do is controlled by decisions taken by Alistair Darling.

Local politicians are always interested in proposals to spend more public money in their areas, as that's one of the things which gets them favourable coverage in local papers.

While this particular politician nominally represents North Wales, he's from Wrexham, something which may have influenced the specific suggestions he makes.

How well I remember an officer in the SRA telling me in a hotel bar that they had got this model that showed rail usage would go into decline and how this was informing the decisions on then stalled franchise decision.

 

[merlodlliw]

While this particular politician nominally represents North Wales, he's from Wrexham, something which may have influenced the specific suggestions he makes.

Aled Roberts was also leader of Wrexham County Council until he was elected to The National Assembly of Wales,he has a very deep understanding of railways in North Wales being a member of Taith for many years, of course he will be batting for Wrexham,having a good knowledge of where people travel to from North East Wales.

 

[TDK]

Aled Roberts was also leader of Wrexham County Council until he was elected to The National Assembly of Wales,he has a very deep understanding of railways in North Wales being a member of Taith for many years, of course he will be batting for Wrexham,having a good knowledge of where people travel to from North East Wales.

He hasn't done a good job so far Bob, he will do as he is told unfortunately like they all do!

 

[merlodlliw]

He hasn't done a good job so far Bob, he will do as he is told unfortunately like they all do!

I don't agree, hes an opposition AM,plus both he and Mark Isherwood have tabled more railway questions in the Senedd than any other AMs.


Hows the new track after the blockade?
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One of the rail replacement buses between Wrexham and Chester stuck in traffic for over three hours,due to roadworks on the A483, story here
http://www.dailypost.co.uk/news/north-wales-news/motorists-stuck-wrexham-a483-three-hour-7591915
I understand all other ex Wrexham Rail replacement services were diverted though Flintshire to avoid the A483

 

[TDK]

I don't agree, hes an opposition AM,plus both he and Mark Isherwood have tabled more railway questions in the Senedd than any other AMs.


Hows the new track after the blockade?
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
One of the rail replacement buses between Wrexham and Chester stuck in traffic for over three hours,due to roadworks on the A483, story here
http://www.dailypost.co.uk/news/north-wales-news/motorists-stuck-wrexham-a483-three-hour-7591915
I understand all other ex Wrexham Rail replacement services were diverted though Flintshire to avoid the A483

So what has he actually achieved so far Bob?