Wrexham redouble

[merlodlliw]

The bridge will be built, note my 'spanner in the works' comment last week!!!

But does the road have to close for a year?

 

[The Informer]

I wouldn't know the answer to that as yet, even so its not the end of the world. They're making out that a whole village will be cut off from the outside world? Who will be? There's only a handful of houses on that lane with the majority being near the Burton end anyway. Lets not forget that it was the people of Rossett who campaigned for a By-Pass which led to the singling of the line and the closure of Rossett Level Crossing to make way for it in the first place!

 

[merlodlliw]

I wouldn't know the answer to that as yet, even so its not the end of the world. They're making out that a whole village will be cut off from the outside world? Who will be? There's only a handful of houses on that lane with the majority being near the Burton end anyway. Lets not forget that it was the people of Rossett who campaigned for a By-Pass which led to the singling of the line and the closure of Rossett Level Crossing to make way for it in the first place!

You are correct of course, I know a few of them down in Rossett,some of whom would like to see the railway gone from the area,however now they can use the new Welsh Government rail feedback form released yesterday to complain.

 

[TDK]

You are correct of course, I know a few of them down in Rossett,some of whom would like to see the railway gone from the area,however now they can use the new Welsh Government rail feedback form released yesterday to complain.

They better make sure that both their feet are in Wales when filling in the form then Bob!

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

Already posted on another thread in the Timetable/Diagrams section: http://www.railforums.co.uk/showthread.php?t=103408

These threads are now right royally screwed up with cross-postings on the same issues.

 

[PHILIPE]

There are posts on this issue on the ATW Gerald thread also.

 

[Gareth Marston]

Back to the thread, Edwina Hart announced the M4 Relief Road today not the missing miles of the Wrexham redouble, a nice round £Billion for roads in Wales.

 

[merlodlliw]

Back to the thread, Edwina Hart announced the M4 Relief Road today not the missing miles of the Wrexham redouble, a nice round £Billion for roads in Wales.

Not surprising, even with the partial redoubling of the line,ATW have announced they will axe two services in & out of Wrexham.
the 0700 Shrewsbury stopper to Wrexham, and the 0747 Wrexham/Birmingham will be axed from May 2015, the very day the £44 million redouble officially opens,it gets worse.

 

[Gareth Marston]

Not surprising, even with the partial redoubling of the line,ATW have announced they will axe two services in & out of Wrexham.
the 0700 Shrewsbury stopper to Wrexham, and the 0747 Wrexham/Birmingham will be axed from May 2015, the very day the £44 million redouble officially opens,it gets worse.

If we get the 158 that overnights at Carmarthan caused by the Manchester LHCS cascade then it doesn't become an issue. The Llandudno flyer is of course the greatest carter of fresh air on ATW's network beyond me why they persist with it at their own expense.

 

[merlodlliw]

If we get the 158 that overnights at Carmarthan caused by the Manchester LHCS cascade then it doesn't become an issue. The Llandudno flyer is of course the greatest carter of fresh air on ATW's network beyond me why they persist with it at their own expense.

The train you mention was the infamous WAG2, it continues to run carrying little if any traffic between Shrewsbury and Newport, when Welsh Government withdrew its open access funding, ATW continued to run it up direction only as what appeared a political sop to West North Wales transport consortia members,who complained it was being withdrawn but never used the service.
As for the proposed cull of the direct 158 busy commuter train to Birmingham from Wrexham from May 2015 we held a SCRUA meeting at Gobowen last evening,if the cull of this train does go ahead,it will mean no direct Birmingham train on the line from Chester to Shrewsbury between 0530 and noon.
Due to the unusual advance knowledge of the axing, we are ahead of the game,as May 2015 timetable changes due for consultation in March 2015 would have been too late to stop the axing of this very busy travel to work train.

 

[Emyr]

Back to the thread, Edwina Hart announced the M4 Relief Road today not the missing miles of the Wrexham redouble, a nice round £Billion for roads in Wales.

Annoying, but a far easier project for a politician to justify.

 

[The Informer]

Has anyone else heard that the linespeeds wont be increased between Wrexham & Chester once the re-double is complete?

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

Has anyone else heard that the linespeeds wont be increased between Wrexham & Chester once the re-double is complete?

That would put the tin lid on it.
What's your source? Does it also apply to Shrewsbury-Gobowen?
In passing, the Wolverhampton-Shrewsbury line is still stuck at 70mph despite all the resignalling and upgrades in recent years.

 

[The Planner]

Wolves Shrewsbury would need substantial works to get it up to 90 and for what it gives you, which isn't much, it got canned.

 

[The Informer]

Shrewsbury Gobowen is yet to have the works to bring up to 90mph. This will eventually get done once a few things get ironed out.
As regards to a source quoting the 60mph between Wrexham & Saltney then lets just see what happens.

 

[TDK]

Has anyone else heard that the linespeeds wont be increased between Wrexham & Chester once the re-double is complete?

I heard this as well but not from a reliable source, just hearsay, even if the speed was increased you won't get any more capacity and it wont take hardly anything off the journey times either as Gresford Bank will have to stay at 60mph unless the whole lot is re-profiled and as far as I am aware nothing is being done at all from Rossett to Wrexham.

 

[merlodlliw]

I heard this as well but not from a reliable source, just hearsay, even if the speed was increased you won't get any more capacity and it wont take hardly anything off the journey times either as Gresford Bank will have to stay at 60mph unless the whole lot is re-profiled and as far as I am aware nothing is being done at all from Rossett to Wrexham.

Welsh Government culled any expected work between Rossett and Wrexham,it is also my understanding the line being doubled between Saltney and Rossett will hardly effect journey times and WG did not ask for the line to carry any extra capacity,The Minister has passed any future work onto the WG North Wales Rail Task Force,this quango has no professional rail members on its committee and is made up of selected County Cllrs & Business people.

 

[TDK]

Welsh Government culled any expected work between Rossett and Wrexham,it is also my understanding the line being doubled between Saltney and Rossett will hardly effect journey times and WG did not ask for the line to carry any extra capacity,The Minister has passed any future work onto the WG North Wales Rail Task Force,this quango has no professional rail members on its committee and is made up of selected County Cllrs & Business people.

So Bob, why have they wasted all that money on it them? Told you from the start it was a waste of money

 

[merlodlliw]

So Bob, why have they wasted all that money on it them? Told you from the start it was a waste of money

The Minister under pressure from everyone shot herself in the foot by taking the wrong advice and ignoring expert opinion from those who know.
It was announced as a fait accompli last July on the very last day before the Welsh Assembly broke up for its eleven week recess.
The Billion £, M4 link in South Wales was announced in the same way this year.

The current redouble in its present £44 millions upgrade is of little use to passengers, the only beneficiary appears to be Network Rail's contractors.
I can not think of any other line in the UK being upgraded in a £44M or similar scheme that did not cater for extra capacity or paths.

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

I heard this as well but not from a reliable source, just hearsay, even if the speed was increased you won't get any more capacity and it wont take hardly anything off the journey times either as Gresford Bank will have to stay at 60mph unless the whole lot is re-profiled and as far as I am aware nothing is being done at all from Rossett to Wrexham.

How do you get the promised "journey time improvements" without increasing the line speed?
Network Rail are expert at de-speccing and phasing things backwards.
Like the coast line speed upgrade a decade ago, or Shrewsbury-Wolves.

 

[Gareth Marston]

Welsh Government culled any expected work between Rossett and Wrexham,it is also my understanding the line being doubled between Saltney and Rossett will hardly effect journey times and WG did not ask for the line to carry any extra capacity,The Minister has passed any future work onto the WG North Wales Rail Task Force,this quango has no professional rail members on its committee and is made up of selected County Cllrs & Business people.

At current line speeds Rosset LC to Wrexham North is a six and a half minute gap for 158 timed services, there's two paths per hour each way if services are spaced evenly. The question is what uses them are where do they come from? As it stands the every other hour services that come up from Cardiff and Shrewsbury and in the reverse direction present themselves at roughly the same time each hour . So where do you stick an hourly service to Holyhead from Cardiff in as the path every second hour has BHM INTL to Holyhead train in it north of shrewsbury.

 

[The Planner]

How do you get the promised "journey time improvements" without increasing the line speed?
Network Rail are expert at de-speccing and phasing things backwards.
Like the coast line speed upgrade a decade ago, or Shrewsbury-Wolves.

By not sending them via Crewe and I have already given the reason for Wolves Shrewsbury, a lot of money for very little in return. It is also worth reminding the fact that NR werent overly bothered by this scheme, it was WG pushed with their cash.

 

[snowball]

The Billion £, M4 link in South Wales was announced in the same way this year.

About the eighth or ninth time it's been announced in the last 25 years.

 

[TDK]

By not sending them via Crewe and I have already given the reason for Wolves Shrewsbury, a lot of money for very little in return. It is also worth reminding the fact that NR werent overly bothered by this scheme, it was WG pushed with their cash.

If Virgin run trains from Wolves to Shrewsbury I bet the line speed is increased, look at the Crewe to Stafford slow lines from 75mph to 100mph overnight when VT discovered the fast lines will be blocked. Unfortunately as Bob has quoted the ministers in charge of the upgrade obviously did not know the logistics of the route and what is needed to improve the service. The only thing that would have been any good for a reasonable improvement is redoubling the whole stretch including another bridge over the A483 but hey there isn't the money available. The only up side to the whole scheme is that the contractors and FOC's have made a mint at the taxpayers expense for a WG project with 80% in England, a huge fail in my book.

 

[Gareth Marston]

By not sending them via Crewe and I have already given the reason for Wolves Shrewsbury, a lot of money for very little in return. It is also worth reminding the fact that NR werent overly bothered by this scheme, it was WG pushed with their cash.

There's nothing via Crewe now apart from a Swansea to Cheter turn in the evening.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

If Virgin run trains from Wolves to Shrewsbury I bet the line speed is increased, look at the Crewe to Stafford slow lines from 75mph to 100mph overnight when VT discovered the fast lines will be blocked. Unfortunately as Bob has quoted the ministers in charge of the upgrade obviously did not know the logistics of the route and what is needed to improve the service. The only thing that would have been any good for a reasonable improvement is redoubling the whole stretch including another bridge over the A483 but hey there isn't the money available. The only up side to the whole scheme is that the contractors and FOC's have made a mint at the taxpayers expense for a WG project with 80% in England, a huge fail in my book.

Wales bats above its weight in the aerospace sector is an oft heard statement with more than 5% of the UK's aerospace employment yet look at where the employees at Airbus live and most of the income is spent in Cheshire and the Wirral. Travel from South Wales to Wrexham involves going through North Shropshire the area doesn't conform to a neat division between England and Wales.

 

[The Planner]

If Virgin run trains from Wolves to Shrewsbury I bet the line speed is increased, look at the Crewe to Stafford slow lines from 75mph to 100mph overnight when VT discovered the fast lines will be blocked.

Will bet substantial amounts of cash that it wont, the project has been canned. Shrewsbury paths offered on whats there. The slow lines between Crewe and Stafford was a logical thing to do for low cost and means more trains for when Norton Bridge is dug up and doesnt just benefit Virgin.

 

[muddythefish]

This sorry and drawn-out saga highlights the short-termism, lack of joined-up thinking and forward-looking planning that has afflicted this country for the past 50 years.

And not just in transport - but from government to local authorities to business to our national sports teams.

It's sad and it's pathetic.

 

[TDK]

Will bet substantial amounts of cash that it wont, the project has been canned. Shrewsbury paths offered on whats there. The slow lines between Crewe and Stafford was a logical thing to do for low cost and means more trains for when Norton Bridge is dug up and doesnt just benefit Virgin.

Well that is double standards and admittedly is does not only help VT. But hey lets redouble the line between Saltney and Rosset and then lets slap a 20mph ESR for a mile in there too just to delay things even more. We all know planner that if VT shout jump NR say how high and if anyone else shouts jump NR are wearing concrete boots.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

This sorry and drawn-out saga highlights the short-termism, lack of joined-up thinking and forward-looking planning that has afflicted this country for the past 50 years.

And not just in transport - but from government to local authorities to business to our national sports teams.

It's sad and it's pathetic.

Well the public voted in the current WG did they not? Maybe it's time to change it! Vote in someone else to run Wales.

 

[The Planner]

We all know planner that if VT shout jump NR say how high and if anyone else shouts jump NR are wearing concrete boots..

Well seeing it from the inside I know that is not the case at all.

 

[TDK]

Well seeing it from the inside I know that is not the case at all.

Unfortunately most of the railway workers I know who do not work for VT and there are a few see it from the outside, maybe it is poor PR on NR behalf but it seems that not all TOC's are treated the same, I know with delay attribution it is who pays the highest fines get priority etc. but when it comes to work carried out and Rugby was a fine example NR are well and truly under Mr. Bransons spell.