Wrexham redouble

[alwaystouchout]

What sort of services would this line be seeing after 'significant' doubling?

 

[Squaddie]

What sort of services would this line be seeing after 'significant' doubling?

The benefits are being presented entirely in terms of improvements to the service between Holyhead and Cardiff:

As a result of these enhancements there will be:

• an ability to run an extra train every two hours between Holyhead and Cardiff via Wrexham in both directions
• a reduction of 16 minutes journey time between Holyhead and Cardiff.

Note that the redoubling will provide the ability to run an additional train - no firm promise of actual additional services.

 

[merlodlliw]

What sort of services would this line be seeing after 'significant' doubling?

The line Wrexham to Saltney is ATWs & NRs biggest pinch point,it will allow extra services after 2015 to cater for the substantial growth in passengers generated by the new Super Prisons 2000 inmates families,plus relief of chronic overcrowding on services from 2015. As things stand the single track is now at capacity of three trains only an hour.

My colleagues are already noting cutbacks to the original plans, IE dual track from Wrexham General to Wrexham North Junction.

 

[cle]

NR's biggest pinch point?

 

[Squaddie]

NR's biggest pinch point?

Probably not.

 

[cle]

God help the railways when the super-prison is built!

 

[swcovas]

Probably not.

Probably in Wales.

 

[merlodlliw]

NR's biggest pinch point?

I should add,NRs(Wales) biggest pinch point I forget Network Rail is also devolved in Wales.

 

[krus_aragon]

Probably in Wales.

I expect its biggest competitor would have been Gowerton, but that's just been fixed this year too.

 

[Squaddie]

I should add,NRs(Wales) biggest pinch point I forget Network Rail is also devolved in Wales.

I think Cardiff Queen Street (to give an example off the top off my head) might be a bigger pinch point.

 

[edwin_m]

I think it was last month's Modern Railways where it was mentioned that the doubling would save over ten minutes on some journey times. I think this is because passing on this section eliminates long waits at places like Shrewsbury.

 

[Gareth Marston]

Hourly service from Cardiff to Holyhead has been seen on Welsh Government documents, a recent reply from the WG transport Minister to one of Merodlliw's local politicians seems to hint that this is what the re double will allow.

 

[The Planner]

Sure it wasn't span on not having to go via Crewe?

 

[merlodlliw]

Hourly service from Cardiff to Holyhead has been seen on Welsh Government documents, a recent reply from the WG transport Minister to one of Merodlliw's local politicians seems to hint that this is what the re double will allow.

That is correct,I put it up on this earlier, It appears we have found where the Minister as got her savings from, a colleague informs me.

They have essentially deleted all the changes at the Wrexham end, meaning no alterations at Croes Newydd NF box (it will all be at Chester PSB).
A 4-mile single track is better than 9.5 but will mean about a 10-minute headway where maybe 5 would have been possible with the full scheme.
It probably means the current layout and 40mph limit at Wrexham North will stay.
Hopefully the other proposed line speeds (90 north of Rossett, 75 south) will be implemented (currently 60 throughout).

So it seems an hourly Train between Holyhead & Cardiff via Wrexham will shave 16 minutes off the journey and solve all the problems,I dont thnk so.

 

[pablo]

Please do not drop your aches!

 

[anthony263]

I think Cardiff Queen Street (to give an example off the top off my head) might be a bigger pinch point.

Yes the Bridge over Newport Road just north of Queen Street station is another major pinch point along with the line between Queen Street and Cardiff Central stations.

If all the extra services proposed do happen then the Bridge will need to be replaced by one which can accomodate 4 tracks

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

Travelling Wrexham-Shrewsbury yesterday, it's evident that the remaining jointed sections of track (about 5 stretches from memory) have now all been replaced with welded rail.
However, all the old track panels are still littering the embankments :cry:.

I didn't see any sign of line speed increases, new signs etc.
In fact, because of leaf fall, the journey was punctuated with very slow approaches to places like Ruabon and Chirk.
It was also quite difficult getting going from the stop at both stations, lots of slipping evident.

 

[merlodlliw]

Please do not drop your aches!

We gogs have a problem with translation
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

Travelling Wrexham-Shrewsbury yesterday, it's evident that the remaining jointed sections of track (about 5 stretches from memory) have now all been replaced with welded rail.
However, all the old track panels are still littering the embankments :cry:.

I didn't see any sign of line speed increases, new signs etc.
In fact, because of leaf fall, the journey was punctuated with very slow approaches to places like Ruabon and Chirk.
It was also quite difficult getting going from the stop at both stations, lots of slipping evident.

Agree its like a junk yard,one of the problems left over,due to Political interference with the redouble, I understand the old line was due to be removed when the Saltney/Wrexham line redouble was to commence in October,but WG stopped it for alleged" Value for money" so removal equipment was removed, now all the alleged saving will disappear to remove the old old junk.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

Yes the Bridge over Newport Road just north of Queen Street station is another major pinch point along with the line between Queen Street and Cardiff Central stations.

If all the extra services proposed do happen then the Bridge will need to be replaced by one which can accomodate 4 tracks

Not a problem,anything Cardiff wants Cardiff gets,in my opinion.With all respect Thats how I see it.

 

[Gareth Marston]

We gogs have a problem with translation
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---


Agree its like a junk yard,one of the problems left over,due to Political interference with the redouble, I understand the old line was due to be removed when the Saltney/Wrexham line redouble was to commence in October,but WG stopped it for alleged" Value for money" so removal equipment was removed, now all the alleged saving will disappear to remove the old old junk.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---


Not a problem,anything Cardiff wants Cardiff gets,in my opinion.With all respect Thats how I see it.

Not quite NR have scoped it out and the answer it adds a lot of cost - which can be overcome- but perhaps more importantly it would mean closing a main artery into Cardiff city centre (Newport Road) for a couple of Months.

 

[merlodlliw]

Not quite NR have scoped it out and the answer it adds a lot of cost - which can be overcome- but perhaps more importantly it would mean closing a main artery into Cardiff city centre (Newport Road) for a couple of Months.

Agree its like closing the Wrexham Expressway to remove the single track bridge that caused us all these problems up here.But I can guess which will come first in priority, not Wrexham

 

[Gwenllian2001]

Agree its like closing the Wrexham Expressway to remove the single track bridge that caused us all these problems up here.But I can guess which will come first in priority, not Wrexham

The bridge at Cardiff Queen Street, or Fitzalan Bridge as it used to be called, is a bottleneck after being narrowed in the Seventies. Considering the sheer volume of traffic, I guess it would be a priority over Wrexham but I doubt that anything will happen for the foreseeable future.

 

[merlodlliw]

The bridge at Cardiff Queen Street, or Fitzalan Bridge as it used to be called, is a bottleneck after being narrowed in the Seventies. Considering the sheer volume of traffic, I guess it would be a priority over Wrexham but I doubt that anything will happen for the foreseeable future.

I agree the Rail Bridge over the Wrexham Expressway cannot compare with the Queen Street bridge with volume of rail traffic, it does however show how planning was carried out in the 70s & 80s with little or no consideration of future rail needs.
My current concern is,it appears the Wrexham General area requirements are being ignored by WG, the Network Rail drawings submitted showed an extension of dual track of under two miles from General to Wrexham North(Gresford) junction to allow a five minute headway,if this cutback goes ahead and it looks like it, an opportunity to relay the dual track I mention will be lost while equipment is on site, future requirements of growth in passenger numbers at Wrexham General need immediate attention now with the arrival of the Super Prison in 2017, this alone will generate enormous passenger footfall.

 

[The Planner]

Apart from the side issue of stock, why can't that be accommodated by longer trains?

 

[merlodlliw]

Apart from the side issue of stock, why can't that be accommodated by longer trains?

With all respect, it was Network Rail who submitted the plans to WG earlier in the year & Network Rail plans showed a five minute head with the redouble between General & Wrexham North Junction.
I am looking at the bigger picture of track capacity in the future,it was Political interference that singled the line in the first place to save less that £500K on a bridge. The Gowerton redouble ran over budget, but it was completed as per the plans & drawings all paid for by WG.
All the old track lying on the embankments between Bersham & Shrewsbury would have been removed by now, if phase two had gone ahead in October,but politics decided to interfere.
As for the side issue of stock,with all the £Ms spent on the Cambrian with dynamic loops etc, it remains a two hourly service, but the infrastructure will ensure extra capacity from next year

 

[alwaystouchout]

I agree the Rail Bridge over the Wrexham Expressway cannot compare with the Queen Street bridge with volume of rail traffic, it does however show how planning was carried out in the 70s & 80s with little or no consideration of future rail needs.
My current concern is,it appears the Wrexham General area requirements are being ignored by WG, the Network Rail drawings submitted showed an extension of dual track of under two miles from General to Wrexham North(Gresford) junction to allow a five minute headway,if this cutback goes ahead and it looks like it, an opportunity to relay the dual track I mention will be lost while equipment is on site, future requirements of growth in passenger numbers at Wrexham General need immediate attention now with the arrival of the Super Prison in 2017, this alone will generate enormous passenger footfall.

I thought the proposed Wrexham North station was going to be located closer to Rossett/Station Road?

 

[merlodlliw]

I thought the proposed Wrexham North station was going to be located closer to Rossett/Station Road?

Wrexham North Junction is just before the single track bridge at Gresford heading North, its about two miles from Wrexham General,.nothing to do with the proposed station to be Called Wrexham North which is at Rossett..

Bob

 

[alwaystouchout]

Wrexham North Junction is just before the single track bridge at Gresford heading North, its about two miles from Wrexham General,.nothing to do with the proposed station to be Called Wrexham North which is at Rossett..

Bob

Ah right, my misunderstanding.

 

[Jona26]

I wonder how the people of Rossett feel about their station being called Wrexham North?!! Although over the border I'm surprised there's no campaign to call it Chester South!

 

[PHILIPE]

I wonder how the people of Rossett feel about their station being called Wrexham North?!! Although over the border I'm surprised there's no campaign to call it Chester South!

It was called Rossett when there was a station there before in pre-Beeching days. Why call it something else ?

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

I wonder how the people of Rossett feel about their station being called Wrexham North?!! Although over the border I'm surprised there's no campaign to call it Chester South!

There's a Holiday Inn in Ewloe (well into Wales) called "Chester West".
Broughton Airbus factory is often called "Chester" by BBC North West.
Even BAE used to call it that (like mentioning Bristol rather than Filton).

Lady Diana's butler "lived in Farndon" according to the Chester edition of the Chronicle, and "ran a shop in Holt" according to the Wrexham edition.
Both are true (they are on opposite sides of the River Dee border), but you can see how the news is massaged for the audience.