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Would you shop someone without a valid ticket?

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zwk500

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OOH, I don't know?
I was travelling back from Glasgow, sat in my reserved seat with my pre-booked advance ticket, a lady came up and loudly informed me that I was sitting in HER seat and she had a reservation for it and then flashed a seat reservation ticket in front of me, which was indeed for that seat. I suggested that she find somewhere else to sit, which grudgingly she did nearby. Conductor came round to do a ticket inspection, she kicked off again that she had booked the seat I was in. The conductor informed her that she did have a valid seat reservation ......for tomorrow.... as she also had a ticket valid to travel tomorrow....however would she care to pay for TODAY's journey?
I did feel some schadenfreude...
I would do exactly what you did in this situation - sit quietly, but firmly, where I am and wait for this person to make a fool of themselves to the guard. No need to dob anybody in for it.
But perhaps it would be nice for her to be allowed to use her next day dated ticket. Obviously she had made an honest mistake.
If people are being aggressive and rude to other customers without checking their paperwork then I think the Conductor took the appropriate action to get the person to climb down a couple of steps by charging them.
 
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Egg Centric

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I would do exactly what you did in this situation - sit quietly, but firmly, where I am and wait for this person to make a fool of themselves to the guard. No need to dob anybody in for it.

(As an aside - it's not clear from @Lloyds siding's story if he or she knew that the rude lady was travelling on the wrong day. Overbooking/reserving *is* possible - I dunno exactly how but I saw it happen last Friday; in that case it was solved amicably but the guard took details of the travel agent that sold one set of the tickets to do... something... with. I found this strange and was going to make a thread about it but found other times where it had occurred.
 

zwk500

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(As an aside - it's not clear from @Lloyds siding's story if he or she knew that the rude lady was travelling on the wrong day. Overbooking/reserving *is* possible - I dunno exactly how but I saw it happen last Friday; in that case it was solved amicably but the guard took details of the travel agent that sold one set of the tickets to do... something... with. I found this strange and was going to make a thread about it but found other times where it had occurred.
Indeed - I think I may have seen an overbooking happen once (it was at the far end of the carriage and I didn't want to stick my nose in), and that's another good reason for not getting involved - you don't know how the wrong tickets have come to be held.
 

BJames

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Indeed - I think I may have seen an overbooking happen once (it was at the far end of the carriage and I didn't want to stick my nose in), and that's another good reason for not getting involved - you don't know how the wrong tickets have come to be held.
I've had someone come up to me and say they'd booked my seat. I asked to see their ticket and indeed it was for the correct day, time and train we were on. Fortunately there was an unreserved seat a couple of rows over which she was able to take but that one was odd. I asked to see the ticket because someone else had come up to me 5 minutes earlier to say the same thing, but she was in the wrong carriage (and rather insistent she wasn't).

But to answer the thread title. Personally I wouldn't, mainly because I don't want to get involved and get in any sort of trouble with the person I'd just dobbed in it. It's useful to hear from @LowLevel as well that guards tend to prefer this non-involvement from passengers. The only time I have ever had staff involved was someone sitting in my seat in First Class on LNER and they were sort of debating with me whether to move. Platform staff at Kings Cross came on and turns out they didn't even have a first class ticket anyway. There were no ticket checks so had they just moved to an unreserved first class seat they would have gotten away with it...
 

spag23

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But perhaps it would be nice for her to be allowed to use her next day dated ticket. Obviously she had made an honest mistake.

Nice? Yes. But since when has making an honest mistake been a permitted excuse for escaping a penalty from our wonderful TOCs? (See half the threads under Disputes and Prosecutions)
 

MikeWh

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So, what would you have done?
In the specific example of the OP I would not have said or done anything.

However, if someone is openly bragging about not paying anything and there is a chance to have a discreet word then I absolutely would, and indeed did twenty-or-so years ago. I took a train from Redhill to East Croydon. At Merstham a group of boys got on and were bragging about how easy it was to avoid buying tickets. I sat biting my lips until Purley where I moved along the train and mentioned to the guard what was happening. He thanked me and radioed ahead to East Croydon, where sure enough a reception committee was waiting.
 

ChewChewTrain

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He thanked me and radioed ahead to East Croydon, where sure enough a reception committee was waiting.
Ah yes, the old Reception Committee. Reminds me of when a group of people who I’ll leave undescribed were brazenly smoking on a mostly full weekend 125 into Paddington, in the daytime and in the presence of young children. Pleas from staff and mothers alike to stop were derisively ignored.

Other than with football crowds/matches, I don’t think I’ve ever seen so many police officers as awaited the train as it pulled into Platform 1. At least two or three were by each door. Unbarriered platform or not, they weren’t going to let the miscreants get away!

I didn’t have time to observe what happened, but I hope it was more than just a warning. I care less than most if someone wants to discreetly vape away from other passengers, but this was the real thing, and they actually seemed to be enjoying upsetting people.
 

Segedunum

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I wouldn't be dropping anyone in it unless I thought what they were doing posed a danger to other passengers or the safe running of the train. Even then it'd be done discreetly.

I have assisted a guard before with a drunk passenger who'd decided to lie face down in the aisle on a train before, but he wasn't exactly causing anyone any harm...other than being in the way :lol:
 

Kilopylae

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Nice? Yes. But since when has making an honest mistake been a permitted excuse for escaping a penalty from our wonderful TOCs? (See half the threads under Disputes and Prosecutions)
To be fair, a railway prosecution advice forum is the definition of a skewed sample. It's eminently possible that the cases we see are the minority and that many more people are being treated fairly and not posting about it.
 

43066

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Nice? Yes. But since when has making an honest mistake been a permitted excuse for escaping a penalty from our wonderful TOCs? (See half the threads under Disputes and Prosecutions)

The vast majority of threads on which are by people who have acted dishonestly and are trying to get out of being prosecuted.

To be fair, a railway prosecution advice forum is the definition of a skewed sample. It's eminently possible that the cases we see are the minority and that many more people are being treated fairly and not posting about it.

Indeed. Only yesterday I witnessed a TM at my TOC allowing several people to travel earlier than their advance tickets allowed, due to tube strikes in London. They came up and politely asked first, rather than chancing their arms. Generally makes all the difference!
 

spag23

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o be fair, a railway prosecution advice forum is the definition of a skewed sample. It's eminently possible that the cases we see are the minority and that many more people are being treated fairly and not posting about it.
Good point. I myself have mentioned my own fair treatment (at STP), but I don't reckon there's any way of gauging the overall (ie non-selective) "leniency" ratio.
 

ChewChewTrain

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The vast majority of threads on which are by people who have acted dishonestly and are trying to get out of being prosecuted.
I certainly get the impression that some seeking help are only interested in reducing consequences, and the only thing they regret about their behaviour is not “cheating smarter” to avoid getting caught. It is probably all too easy to fall into the habit of doing “fiddles” whenever and wherever one can, and almost feeling entitled to do so for whatever reason(s).

If you’ve ever had to hold your tongue in such threads, you’re not alone, particularly when it appears that people are trying to deceive those for whose unpaid help they asked. Not that I am complaining that comments in those threads should be limited to those intended to help the OP with their immediate problem.
 

Edsmith

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I’ve just been on a train where the Train Manager came through inspecting all tickets. He explained to the lady opposite that, because she had a ticket which was split at a forthcoming station at which our train was not going to stop, she would have to get off at the next station and change for a train which did stop there.

She didn’t appear to take this very well, and, sure enough, she remained on the train at the next station. I got off there and walked past the TM; I didn’t tell him she hadn’t get off, but I’d be lying if I said I wasn’t tempted. Why should she get away with a saving unavailable to the rest of us?

It was a train made up of two sets and the TM was moving to the other set, so I’m not sure what he’d have done if I had told him. Whether or not she will get away with it will presumably hinge upon whether she alights at the next station the train stops at, before the TM swaps sets once again. He seemed like the thorough type, so I don’t think he’ll fail to recognise her if he does encounter her again.

So, what would you have done?
I wouldn't have said anything and the TM probably wouldn't have done anything about it anyway, I did once 'snitch' on a group of chavs who got off and ran down the other end of the train to avoid a ticket, the revenue guy I told thanked me but didn't seem to be in any hurry to go after them. The only other thing I would snitch on is someone hogging the toilet to avoid a ticket check, no consideration for anyone wanting to use it for it's intended purpose.
 

sheff1

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I have been on many journeys York to Doncaster where other passengers have been openly discussing the fact that they hadn't bought tickets. I wouldn't try and inform anyone as the behaviour is so common and well publicised that staff should know about it and are presumably not interested in doing anything (I did once see guard checking and he had taken a tidy sum without even getting half way through my carriage before arrival).

I did once alert a guard: I boarded at Newcastle where there were staff at each Frst Class door preventing non-First Class ticket holders boarding. At Durham two rather noisy people got in the carriage, one said "this is First Class", the other said "sit here anyway". The guard came through asking for ticekts from Durham and these chancers ignored him. After a short while I walked down as if going to the toilet and when I caught up the guard in the vestibule told him they had got on at Durham. On his return he stopped and asked for their tickets and moved them down to Standard. If they had not been so noisy I may well not have done anything.
 

spag23

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I once experienced the opposite scenario in a First Class compartment on Thameslink. On seeing the approaching inspector, the couple opposite went straight into a pre-emptive sob story of apologies and excuses, begging to be let off with a minimal penalty. The RPI just looked at their tickets, silently nodded and walked away.
I could see they were perplexed.
"This is the rear carriage" I explained to them, "so it's de-classified".
 

_toommm_

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There were some lads on a train I was on from Bristol to Weymouth today who boarded at Yeovil - most of them were ‘waiting for their mum to send them the tickets’. Understandably the guard made three of them pay, whilst one of the others resisted. Cue some racist remarks whilst the guard gave two on the buzzer for each request stop. The fourth finally paid after much arguing, and the guard keeping the train at Maiden Newton until he paid.
 

Ianigsy

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I’ve pointed out to a guard on the Calder Valley before now when somebody had coincidentally had to go to the toilet on the two occasions that she’d announced she was checking tickets.

What the guard chooses to do with that information is down to their judgement and other responsibilities, i.e. doors etc, however on this occasion she had time to wait outside the toilet for him.
 
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