Would you shop someone without a valid ticket?

[ChewChewTrain]

I’ve just been on a train where the Train Manager came through inspecting all tickets. He explained to the lady opposite that, because she had a ticket which was split at a forthcoming station at which our train was not going to stop, she would have to get off at the next station and change for a train which did stop there.

She didn’t appear to take this very well, and, sure enough, she remained on the train at the next station. I got off there and walked past the TM; I didn’t tell him she hadn’t get off, but I’d be lying if I said I wasn’t tempted. Why should she get away with a saving unavailable to the rest of us?

It was a train made up of two sets and the TM was moving to the other set, so I’m not sure what he’d have done if I had told him. Whether or not she will get away with it will presumably hinge upon whether she alights at the next station the train stops at, before the TM swaps sets once again. He seemed like the thorough type, so I don’t think he’ll fail to recognise her if he does encounter her again.

So, what would you have done?

 

[skyhigh]

So, what would you have done?

None of my business, if the train manager wants to deal with it let them.

 

[yorkie]

Not calling at a split point is such a minor matter; I wouldn't mention it.

A lot of staff will allow people to do that, especially if the customer has a good attitude and/or asks nicely.

Indeed several years ago, the rules did actually allow this, provided the company whose train was not calling at the relevant station did serve that station at least once a week (or something along those lines), i.e. splitting London to Peterborough at Stevenage would have been fine on LNER, but splitting at St Neots wouldn't be.

 

[LowLevel]

Speaking as a guard I'm far happier if passengers stay out of ticketing disputes. I can manage them myself to the degree I choose and don't have any interest in sorting out potential fisticuffs between the punters (this has happened to me before and is far more time consuming to sort out than one person with a dodgy ticket).

If you want to mention it discretely out of the way then fine, I can choose my actions in my own way - anyone choosing to announce their issue with someone else in front of an entire carriage rarely receives a favourable response from me.

 

[ChewChewTrain]

Speaking as a guard I'm far happier if passengers stay out of ticketing disputes. I can manage them myself to the degree I choose and don't have any interest in sorting out potential fisticuffs between the punters (this has happened to me before and is far more time consuming to sort out than one person with a dodgy ticket).

If you want to mention it discretely out of the way then fine, I can choose my actions in my own way - anyone choosing to announce their issue with someone else in front of an entire carriage rarely receives a favourable response from me.

I don’t think I’d be silly enough to do that!

In any case, I suppose it’s possible she rectified the situation online (though I’d be surprised).

The only time I’ve actually said anything to a staff member is when one of the two inspectors was getting aggro on the infamous last train from Paddington to Cardiff. I know he’d probably radioed his mate anyway, but it could just have not been working, and as I was passing anyway I thought I might as well mention it.

 

[Bletchleyite]

I've tipped a guard off about "likely lads" getting on and hiding in the bog (for which I was thanked) but I'd not get involved in complex stuff.

 

[Feuillesmortes]

I’ve just been on a train where the Train Manager came through inspecting all tickets. He explained to the lady opposite that, because she had a ticket which was split at a forthcoming station

So, what would you have done?

Congratulated her on her good value ticket and compared notes on the best splitting sites.

 

[Mcr Warrior]

Congratulated her on her good value ticket .

Not that good if it isn't actually valid! But the general consensus, so far, seems to be that this is hardly the "crime of the century"!

 

[43066]

No, for two reasons: firstly, because it’s none of your business; secondly because, if the person realises, they won’t take kindly to it and you might well end up being assaulted!

 

[andrew749]

In the situation as described, I'd have pretended I hadn't noticed the other passenger's conversation with the guard (not wishing to inflame an already awkward situation). If the conversation had ended more amicably, I might have had a chat with her about the best websites for split tickets.

Generally I find the best advice is: If in doubt, keep your nose out.

 

[Skiddaw]

I don’t think I’d be silly enough to do that!

In any case, I suppose it’s possible she rectified the situation online (though I’d be surprised).

The only time I’ve actually said anything to a staff member is when one of the two inspectors was getting aggro on the infamous last train from Paddington to Cardiff. I know he’d probably radioed his mate anyway, but it could just have not been working, and as I was passing anyway I thought I might as well mention it.

I have fond memories of that train! Admittedly, I always got off at Reading (before things became really mardy I imagine) but the buffet car could be most entertaining on a Saturday night.

 

[TT-ONR-NRN]

I’ve just been on a train where the Train Manager came through inspecting all tickets. He explained to the lady opposite that, because she had a ticket which was split at a forthcoming station at which our train was not going to stop, she would have to get off at the next station and change for a train which did stop there.

She didn’t appear to take this very well, and, sure enough, she remained on the train at the next station. I got off there and walked past the TM; I didn’t tell him she hadn’t get off, but I’d be lying if I said I wasn’t tempted. Why should she get away with a saving unavailable to the rest of us?

It was a train made up of two sets and the TM was moving to the other set, so I’m not sure what he’d have done if I had told him. Whether or not she will get away with it will presumably hinge upon whether she alights at the next station the train stops at, before the TM swaps sets once again. He seemed like the thorough type, so I don’t think he’ll fail to recognise her if he does encounter her again.

So, what would you have done?

Well done for not doing it. Let's face it, it takes a really unpleasant, unlikeable person to shop someone with nothing to be gained other than to take pleasure in someone else getting in trouble.

 

[geoffk]

Is it still permissible to do as this lady did, PROVIDED one of my tickets is a Rover or season ticket, concessionary pass or other area ticket? I still carry a copy of Conditions of travel 14.2 in case of argument and I've not read that it has changed.

 

[_toommm_]

Is it still permissible to do as this lady did, PROVIDED one of my tickets is a Rover or season ticket, concessionary pass or other area ticket? I still carry a copy of Conditions of travel 14.2 in case of argument and I've not read that it has changed.

Yes it is still allowed. And it’s at least one area-based ticket, so you could theoretically have two rover/ranger etc. tickets.

EDIT: It’s now 14.3, and the NRCoT now clarifies about splitting at stations where the call is marked as pick up/set down only.

 

[Kilopylae]

Aside from agreeing with Yorkie and MCR that it's not that deep in this particular case—it's also none of my business. I have no interest in snitching on people who aren't hurting anyone and ultimately I would be far more judgemental of someone who had a go at a stranger for something that didn't affect them than I would of someone who broke train ticketing rules.

 

[nanstallon]

It seems generally agreed that in the OP's example, it would not be right to get involved, and I agree that it is best not to get involved. After all, it is not as though the lady was travelling without a ticket. Quite often, though, a conductor walks through the train asking for tickets from the last stopping station, and there is somebody studiously keeping his head down, clearly avoiding engagement with the conductor. As someone who believes that fares should be paid, it is hard not to say something - I don't like fare dodgers. But maybe he does have a ticket, and just can't be bothered to fish it out of his jacket. So, I don't risk a confrontation.

 

[Egg Centric]

Firstly, I wouldn't shop people for far more serious offences quite honestly. I don't know where the threshold lies on the "hierarchy of offences" but I would for example probably ignore:

Peaceful cocaine smuggling (probably a hypothetical offence - can't see that happening in practice)
Driving 200mph on an empty motorway
Any "speech" offence
Murdering a paedophile caught in the act
Fox hunting with dogs
Having an air pistol in Scotland while being respectable (we can define that by headwear perhaps - e.g. a flat cap)

Whilst I would probably report:

Desecrating the grave of someone with living relatives
Parking in front of my drive
Selling personal data without authority
Violence against an innocent bystander
Bear baiting
Having an air pistol in Scotland while not being respectable (Burberry baseball cap)

There is no particular coherent philosophy underlying the above but I think most people will have a similar hierarchy even if they disagree exactly which offence goes where.

East Germany teaches us the danger of having a society where people cannot trust their friends, neighbours, even family due to "informants". It's impossible to adhere to every law so we should all fear humourless snitches!

Secondly, on a practical level it wouldn't achieve anything much anyway and for all I know there are facts I'm unaware of - in the OP's example maybe the passenger had been on twitter and got dispensation from the customer services team (for instance). Or on the other side maybe the guard had set up an RPI sting operation. Both unlikely but possible and neither will be aided by me saying anything.

 

[Wallsendmag]

Depends if I was on duty or not.

 

[busestrains]

No i mind my own business. I would never report a fare evader or someone without a valid ticket. It is none of my business. Also frankly i could not care less whether or not other passengers have valid tickets or are fare evading.

 

[Class800]

Speaking as a guard I'm far happier if passengers stay out of ticketing disputes. I can manage them myself to the degree I choose and don't have any interest in sorting out potential fisticuffs between the punters (this has happened to me before and is far more time consuming to sort out than one person with a dodgy ticket).

If you want to mention it discretely out of the way then fine, I can choose my actions in my own way - anyone choosing to announce their issue with someone else in front of an entire carriage rarely receives a favourable response from me.

Sounds a good approach - I think passengers should travel and keep out of other people's business. It's up to the guard what to do with tickets. Reporting people is like constantly moaning to the referee in football. Most guards are quite reasonable with genuine mistakes and able to differentiate that from fare evasion, whatever the rules say - but some guards take a more hardline approach and that's up to them.

 

[Kilopylae]

It's impossible to adhere to every law so we should all fear humourless snitches!

Couldn't have put it better myself!

 

[Class800]

Couldn't have put it better myself!

Agree. Not having the right ticket can fall into at least 3 categories: i) deliberate fare evasion, ii) accidental confusion or mistake, iii) going to a nearby station on a parallel line due to disruption when official acceptance hasn't been arranged. These are quite different. A guard would hopefully distinguish, but they don't always, but passengers shouldn't interfere and judge.

 

[zwk500]

Aside from considering it not my business and not wanting to tell the guard how to do their job, I'd also bear in mind at some point it could be me who's tried to split tickets and gotten it wrong/confused, and that the cost of fixing the error may be substantial and I could benefit from similar leniency at a later time.

 

[kristiang85]

Indeed several years ago, the rules did actually allow this, provided the company whose train was not calling at the relevant station did serve that station at least once a week (or something along those lines), i.e. splitting London to Peterborough at Stevenage would have been fine on LNER, but splitting at St Neots wouldn't be.

Ah I never realised this wasn't allowed anymore. Especially as terminology for a routing can still be "via" a station without stopping at it.

Luckily I always travel via my split itinerary done via split ticketing, so I haven't come a cropper, but good to know.

 

[Lloyds siding]

Well done for not doing it. Let's face it, it takes a really unpleasant, unlikeable person to shop someone with nothing to be gained other than to take pleasure in someone else getting in trouble.

OOH, I don't know?
I was travelling back from Glasgow, sat in my reserved seat with my pre-booked advance ticket, a lady came up and loudly informed me that I was sitting in HER seat and she had a reservation for it and then flashed a seat reservation ticket in front of me, which was indeed for that seat. I suggested that she find somewhere else to sit, which grudgingly she did nearby. Conductor came round to do a ticket inspection, she kicked off again that she had booked the seat I was in. The conductor informed her that she did have a valid seat reservation ......for tomorrow.... as she also had a ticket valid to travel tomorrow....however would she care to pay for TODAY's journey?
I did feel some schadenfreude...

 

[spag23]

Ha ha.
I had a similar incident at Euston, fortunately a few minutes before departure. The other guy argued that his seat reservation trumped my own one. We summoned an inspector to adjudicate.
He pointed out that we were on a Manchester-bound train, and the other guy's ticket was for the Glasgow train; "If you really do want to go to Scotland, you've got three minutes to get over to the right platform".
Whoosh!

 

[PMH]

There's a lot to be said for minding your own business.

 

[Busaholic]

I always beam when I spot a moat, but then I'm not fully paid-up Stasi.

 

[matt_world2004]

would only shop someone if they did someone if they did something to inconvenience me like push past me in the barriers or sit in my reserved seat

 

[nanstallon]

OOH, I don't know?
I was travelling back from Glasgow, sat in my reserved seat with my pre-booked advance ticket, a lady came up and loudly informed me that I was sitting in HER seat and she had a reservation for it and then flashed a seat reservation ticket in front of me, which was indeed for that seat. I suggested that she find somewhere else to sit, which grudgingly she did nearby. Conductor came round to do a ticket inspection, she kicked off again that she had booked the seat I was in. The conductor informed her that she did have a valid seat reservation ......for tomorrow.... as she also had a ticket valid to travel tomorrow....however would she care to pay for TODAY's journey?
I did feel some schadenfreude...

But perhaps it would be nice for her to be allowed to use her next day dated ticket. Obviously she had made an honest mistake.