Worth complaining, or am I overreacting?

[fowler9]

It's word for word accurate, as I wanted honest opinions, not for people to make me feel better by siding with me.

I'm a very non-confrontational person, and I go out of my way to avoid any kind of conflict under normal circumstances. For me, silly as it sounds, it took quite a lot of courage for me to even go up to him and ask the questions. I'm the kind of idiot who would get an awful meal and not say a word to the staff.

I went against my natural instinct this time and felt out of my depth when he reacted the way he did, but stayed calm and although I'd probably not do it again in a similar situation, I've decided I will submit a complaint to Crosscountry with a focus on his bizzare opinions on m-tickets, but with a side note about his refusal to engage with my questions and impoliteness. I work in customer service and if I treated someone that way I'd have to answer for it, I'm sure.

Thanks everyone for your thoughts and opinions. As a regular traveller on that route I'm now just dreading my next encounter with him.

Good luck mate. You certainly shouldn't be dreading encountering a member of staff.

 

[HowardGWR]

One or two other points emerged to me. Why is a member of staff, on duty, sitting in first class, and using his phone? First he should better sit in standard where he is more likely to be of use if rowdy people get on and he should better choose a place near ladies or elderly travelling alone, to give assurance. Secondly, if he wants to use the phone, he should use it outside the compartment (first or standard) so that he does not disturb customers.

I see we have customer experts on here. Do staff get training on these obvious benefits of good behaviour?

 

[455driver]

One or two other points emerged to me. Why is a member of staff, on duty, sitting in first class, and using his phone? First he should better sit in standard where he is more likely to be of use if rowdy people get on and he should better choose a place near ladies or elderly travelling alone, to give assurance. Secondly, if he wants to use the phone, he should use it outside the compartment (first or standard) so that he does not disturb customers.

I see we have customer experts on here. Do staff get training on these obvious benefits of good behaviour?

Maybe you would like him to doff his cap as you walk past as well! :roll:

 

[OLJR]

Why? It will only get bumped down to CS anyway.

i) It will not necessarily get bumped straight down to CS without any CEO interaction
ii) In some companies CS take more interest in cases that come from the CEO office.

The OP's complaint is particularly bad for the brand because it:

i) Suggests that some tickets are more valid than others, which may lead to "issues" in other cases
ii) A member of staff appeared to be discriminating an individual based on their appearance.

If I was the CEO of a rail operator I would want to hear about this.

 

[rdeez]

It's worth saying here that this incident is very much the opposite of every experience I've had with XC crew in the couple of years I've been travelling with them. Last year I even decided to write to their customer relations praising one of the crew for outstanding customer service. This guy is definitely in the minority in my experience.

 

[fowler9]

One or two other points emerged to me. Why is a member of staff, on duty, sitting in first class, and using his phone? First he should better sit in standard where he is more likely to be of use if rowdy people get on and he should better choose a place near ladies or elderly travelling alone, to give assurance. Secondly, if he wants to use the phone, he should use it outside the compartment (first or standard) so that he does not disturb customers.

I see we have customer experts on here. Do staff get training on these obvious benefits of good behaviour?

In my company if you are seen with your phone out in the office it is an instant gross misconduct offence.

 

[David57]

I work in a customer facing job, and if I had that attitude of the train manager, and was reported to my company, I would be in the office for a 'tea, biscuits, and a please explain' meeting Very quickly........

There are some very arrogant train staff out there (that tarnish the reputation of the very good ones).

 

[fowler9]

Maybe you would like him to doff his cap as you walk past as well! :roll:

I have to wear business attire and am expected to be polite to everyone I come across despite not being in a customer facing role.

 

[PermitToTravel]

In my company if you are seen with your phone out in the office it is an instant gross misconduct offence.

Of course traincrew aren't based in an office and might well need to communicate using a mobile phone for work reasons. I don't see a reason this shouldn't happen in the saloon, particularly if nobody is waiting to speak to them / they don't need to be doing anything else

 

[fowler9]

i) It will not necessarily get bumped straight down to CS without any CEO interaction
ii) In some companies CS take more interest in cases that come from the CEO office.

The OP's complaint is particularly bad for the brand because it:

i) Suggests that some tickets are more valid than others, which may lead to "issues" in other cases
ii) A member of staff appeared to be discriminating an individual based on their appearance.

If I was the CEO of a rail operator I would want to hear about this.

In my company every complaint is dealt with by management level staff. In every company I have worked with any complaint passed to the CEO has been dealt with in the same way in the sense that whatever level of staff that normally deal with the complaint will deal with it, just that the CEO will be kept informed of what is going on. In incredibly rare circumstances the CEO may take direct involvement.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

Of course traincrew aren't based in an office and might well need to communicate using a mobile phone for work reasons. I don't see a reason this shouldn't happen in the saloon, particularly if nobody is waiting to speak to them / they don't need to be doing anything else

Yeah sorry mate, I was referring to personal mobile phones. Even in an office some staff are authorised to use a company mobile phone so it isn't that different. Just that on a train the staff are subject to more customers seeing them doing it.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
At the end of the day in 39 years I have felt compelled to complain about the railways once about the service I received, and that was about a bus replacement. Northern Rail more than compensated me. On more than 4 occasions I have felt the urge to thank a TOC for the service provided by e-mail or in writing. I love the railways and think they give me an amazing service.

 

[BestWestern]

From a serving Guard with another company - yes, you absolutely have grounds for complaint, and serious complaint at that. Assuming, of course, that your account is indeed accurate, this individual has a shockingly poor and completely unacceptable attitude. I would have done precisely what you did, having been deliberately insulted by somebody who is supposed to be providing a service I've paid, and challenged them directly - why wouldn't you?! Best of luck.

 

[ATW Alex 101]

Maybe he is the same guard who physically stopped me boarding into the first class carriage from the platform at Newton Abbot, pointing down the train and muttering 'down there mate' or something to that effect. I made a complaint to XC (along with a compo claim as it was about an hour late) and I simply got an apology and assurance that it wouldn't happen again. To be fair though, he probably got suspicious when he saw that a tracksuit-clad lanky geezer was walking into his first class, thinking that I was a vagrant or something.

In the OP's case, provided it's true, I would definitely complain, and include his name if you know it, It's certainly not the attitude that I, if not most, would expect in a customer facing role.

 

[NSE]

I only ever travel for leisure (and often for the sake of traveling). So I'm always in my own clothes. I wear what is comfortable, generally shorts or tracksuit bottoms (Nice ones though ) and I've never been met with any "this is first class mate, standards over there" sort of attitude whenever I've been in first class. In fact I had two first class legs of a journey with XC this year, and both guards were very helpful.

 

[GarethJohn]

It's word for word accurate, as I wanted honest opinions, not for people to make me feel better by siding with me.

I'm a very non-confrontational person, and I go out of my way to avoid any kind of conflict under normal circumstances. For me, silly as it sounds, it took quite a lot of courage for me to even go up to him and ask the questions. I'm the kind of idiot who would get an awful meal and not say a word to the staff.

I went against my natural instinct this time and felt out of my depth when he reacted the way he did, but stayed calm and although I'd probably not do it again in a similar situation, I've decided I will submit a complaint to Crosscountry with a focus on his bizzare opinions on m-tickets, but with a side note about his refusal to engage with my questions and impoliteness. I work in customer service and if I treated someone that way I'd have to answer for it, I'm sure.

Thanks everyone for your thoughts and opinions. As a regular traveller on that route I'm now just dreading my next encounter with him.

Just take it on he Chin. Was it such a bad experience that you could jepordise someones career? Perhaps his experience with you has taught him a lesson. Test him next time wear a dirty Tracksuit, Baseball Cap and carry a super strength bottle of Cider he'll probably laugh. Think of it as a compliment and that you are far to young looking to ever afford a First Class ticket.

 

[asylumxl]

Just take it on he Chin. Was it such a bad experience that you could jepordise someones career? Perhaps his experience with you has taught him a lesson. Test him next time wear a dirty Tracksuit, Baseball Cap and carry a super strength bottle of Cider he'll probably laugh. Think of it as a compliment and that you are far to young looking to ever afford a First Class ticket.

I don't see why he shouldn't complain and just "take it on the chin". The person in question is obviously not doing his job well, so either he needs to change his tune or find another career. Like I said earlier in the thread, any other industry behaviour like that wouldn't be tolerated.

 

[Moonshark]

I do have some sympathy with the TM.

How can you have sympathy with him? Providing such an appalling and discriminative level of customer service is not acceptable at all. The OP is absolutely right to complain and if I was the conductor's boss I would be terminating his employment straight away (no pun intended).

Someone with that attitude should not be doing a customer facing role. One does wonder if the conductor would have been so rude if it was a bunch of rowdy well built men in first class (that would be a different story )

 

[8J]

Just take it on he Chin. Was it such a bad experience that you could jepordise someones career? Perhaps his experience with you has taught him a lesson. Test him next time wear a dirty Tracksuit, Baseball Cap and carry a super strength bottle of Cider he'll probably laugh. Think of it as a compliment and that you are far to young looking to ever afford a First Class ticket.

Utter rubbish and it's posts like these that annoy me about RailUK. Im sure if I asked my colleagues tomorrow then they would side with the OP. Despite what some people think, the self loading freight deserve some decency. A presence in the train with a polite manner. The XC TM hasn't done himself any favours and really shouldn't be in the job. As a fare paying passenger, you deserve better than that.

 

[Searle]

i) It will not necessarily get bumped straight down to CS without any CEO interaction
ii) In some companies CS take more interest in cases that come from the CEO office.

The OP's complaint is particularly bad for the brand because it:

i) Suggests that some tickets are more valid than others, which may lead to "issues" in other cases
ii) A member of staff appeared to be discriminating an individual based on their appearance.

If I was the CEO of a rail operator I would want to hear about this.

If you were CEO of a rail operator, I can assure you that you wouldn't have enough time to deal with complaints on a level like this (with no disrespect to the OP)

 

[fowler9]

If you were CEO of a rail operator, I can assure you that you wouldn't have enough time to deal with complaints on a level like this (with no disrespect to the OP)

I completely agree, the CEO may briefly put his name to the complaint. I think some people have a vastly distorted view of how companies work.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

Just take it on he Chin. Was it such a bad experience that you could jepordise someones career? Perhaps his experience with you has taught him a lesson. Test him next time wear a dirty Tracksuit, Baseball Cap and carry a super strength bottle of Cider he'll probably laugh. Think of it as a compliment and that you are far to young looking to ever afford a First Class ticket.

Wow, that would convince me to complain. If this fella has a history of complaints against him then maybe he is crap at his job and should find something else. If he had a bad day I doubt anything more would come of it.

 

[GarethJohn]

I don't see why he shouldn't complain and just "take it on the chin". The person in question is obviously not doing his job well, so either he needs to change his tune or find another career. Like I said earlier in the thread, any other industry behaviour like that wouldn't be tolerated.

Hardly anything to get in a sweat over is it. The passenger got the trip they wished. And I don't think risking a Man's Career is worth it over something so trivial. No one got hurt.

 

[PermitToTravel]

Hardly anything to get in a sweat over is it. The passenger got the trip they wished. And I don't think risking a Man's Career is worth it over something so trivial. No one got hurt.

Up to him not to risk his career with things so trivial, isn't it?

 

[O L Leigh]

I agree with you in principle, though think "Hello, can I have a look at your ticket?" or "Tickets please!" may be a better execution than "Wrong way, wrong way"!

Yes perhaps. However, the TM is correct in that with experience comes a "nose" for situations and when someone might be travelling otherwise than in accordance with their ticket, and largely these instincts would be correct.

It might appear to be discriminatory, but generally speaking not many casually dressed youngsters travel first class and, as such, the OP simply didn't fit the profile of a typical first class ticket holder. Clearly that's not the OP's fault. Could the TM have dealt with the matter a little better, arguably yes. The more astute amongst you will have spotted that I have not absolved the TM entirely of blame in my earlier post. However, the TM was entirely justified in asking to see the OP's ticket to ensure that he was travelling in the correct part of the train. Enforcement of ticketing regulations is part of the TM's job after all.

I have to say I am at a complete loss to understand how you can possibly see this as 'six of one and half a dozen of the other'. All the passenger did was make a joke which would have lightened the mood in most situations. This TM sounds like the sort of person who gives all train staff a bad name and perhaps questions need to be asked as to whether he is suitable for the job, for him to claim that the passenger was abusing him is just laughable.

I'm afraid any loss to understand is down to your interpretation of events. Did the OP have to challenge the TM? No. All that followed once the train had arrived at New Street was down to the OP.

While I understand that the OP felt aggrieved I don't see what benefit there was to harangue the TM about what the OP considered to be shortcomings in the way he discharged his duties. The TM was clearly content to let matters stand once he'd satisfied himself that the OP was entitled to travel in first class. It was the OP that approached the TM and challenged him, not the other way round. He could have simply submitted his complaint based on what had happened up to that point.

How can you have sympathy with him? Providing such an appalling and discriminative level of customer service is not acceptable at all. The OP is absolutely right to complain and if I was the conductor's boss I would be terminating his employment straight away (no pun intended).

I think I said that I had some sympathy with him within the context of the difficulties that traincrew can face from people attempting to travel otherwise than in accordance with their ticket. But please do go back and check my post again and verify that for yourself.

While you're doing that you will note that I did not say that the OP should not complain if he feels sufficiently aggrieved. This is the problem with quoting out of context. You lose all the meaning and end up twisting what has been said.

As for this TM's suitability for doing the job, I'm just glad that it's not up to the members of this forum to decide. If there's a case to answer as a consequence of a complaint then you can be sure that the managers won't be slow to act.

As an aside, it does seem that the world according to a lot of forum members is purely black or white where people are either the purest angels or the darkest sinners. Perhaps this is a function of youth or maybe it's another manifestation of "Daily Mail-itis" where any perceived transgression is met with calls for unwarrantedly extreme action. We're only going to hear one side of this story which means we're never going to get a fully balanced account.

O L Leigh

 

[razor89]

One does wonder if the conductor would have been so rude if it was a bunch of rowdy well built men in first class (that would be a different story )

Ah so you know the conductor in question do you? Presumably you were on his train recently? And he was cowering in the back of the train while a group of drunken rugby players smashed up first class?

If the answer to these questions is no, then you've just done what the TM did, made prior assumptions and voiced them.

 

[Antman]

Yes perhaps. However, the TM is correct in that with experience comes a "nose" for situations and when someone might be travelling otherwise than in accordance with their ticket, and largely these instincts would be correct.

It might appear to be discriminatory, but generally speaking not many casually dressed youngsters travel first class and, as such, the OP simply didn't fit the profile of a typical first class ticket holder. Clearly that's not the OP's fault. Could the TM have dealt with the matter a little better, arguably yes. The more astute amongst you will have spotted that I have not absolved the TM entirely of blame in my earlier post. However, the TM was entirely justified in asking to see the OP's ticket to ensure that he was travelling in the correct part of the train. Enforcement of ticketing regulations is part of the TM's job after all.



I'm afraid any loss to understand is down to your interpretation of events. Did the OP have to challenge the TM? No. All that followed once the train had arrived at New Street was down to the OP.

While I understand that the OP felt aggrieved I don't see what benefit there was to harangue the TM about what the OP considered to be shortcomings in the way he discharged his duties. The TM was clearly content to let matters stand once he'd satisfied himself that the OP was entitled to travel in first class. It was the OP that approached the TM and challenged him, not the other way round. He could have simply submitted his complaint based on what had happened up to that point.



I think I said that I had some sympathy with him within the context of the difficulties that traincrew can face from people attempting to travel otherwise than in accordance with their ticket. But please do go back and check my post again and verify that for yourself.

While you're doing that you will note that I did not say that the OP should not complain if he feels sufficiently aggrieved. This is the problem with quoting out of context. You lose all the meaning and end up twisting what has been said.

As for this TM's suitability for doing the job, I'm just glad that it's not up to the members of this forum to decide. If there's a case to answer as a consequence of a complaint then you can be sure that the managers won't be slow to act.

As an aside, it does seem that the world according to a lot of forum members is purely black or white where people are either the purest angels or the darkest sinners. Perhaps this is a function of youth or maybe it's another manifestation of "Daily Mail-itis" where any perceived transgression is met with calls for unwarrantedly extreme action. We're only going to hear one side of this story which means we're never going to get a fully balanced account.

O L Leigh

What has the Daily Mail got to do with it? The OP didn't challenge the TM he just asked a perfectly reasonable question, I dread to think how the TM would have reacted if he'd had an abusive passenger to deal with. I cannot imagine his attitude being tolerated in any other customer facing job so why should it be any more acceptable in the railway industry? By contrast most railway staff in my experience do a very good job and often in very trying circumstances, there's always the odd 'bad apple' though.

 

[Clip]

Yes perhaps. However, the TM is correct in that with experience comes a "nose" for situations and when someone might be travelling otherwise than in accordance with their ticket, and largely these instincts would be correct.

It might appear to be discriminatory, but generally speaking not many casually dressed youngsters travel first class and, as such, the OP simply didn't fit the profile of a typical first class ticket holder. Clearly that's not the OP's fault. Could the TM have dealt with the matter a little better, arguably yes. The more astute amongst you will have spotted that I have not absolved the TM entirely of blame in my earlier post. However, the TM was entirely justified in asking to see the OP's ticket to ensure that he was travelling in the correct part of the train. Enforcement of ticketing regulations is part of the TM's job after all.

And this is not in doubt by anyone who has aired their view on this thread - we all agree that it is part of the TMS job.

What is the problem is the way the TM went about it which is totally and utterly wrong and is not how they should be doing their job - regardless of how a person looks.

A simple 'Could I see you ticket please' would of sufficied.

 

[O L Leigh]

What is the problem is the way the TM went about it which is totally and utterly wrong and is not how they should be doing their job - regardless of how a person looks.

A simple 'Could I see you ticket please' would of sufficied.

I addressed this point when it was raised by Fahad earlier. My response is actually the quote to which you are replying.

What has the Daily Mail got to do with it? The OP didn't challenge the TM he just asked a perfectly reasonable question, I dread to think how the TM would have reacted if he'd had an abusive passenger to deal with. I cannot imagine his attitude being tolerated in any other customer facing job so why should it be any more acceptable in the railway industry? By contrast most railway staff in my experience do a very good job and often in very trying circumstances, there's always the odd 'bad apple' though.

Pardon me, but the OP was asking for opinions. I have given mine and I don't believe it is any less valid than anyone else's.

However, I will just reiterate my view one more time. I have not excused the TM or shifted the blame entirely onto the OP, although I don't think that the OP has exactly covered himself in glory by his actions either. That said, his actions do not remove his right to complain if he wishes to do so, a right that I have not denied. If he feels so strongly that he wishes to complain then he absolutely should do so.

What rankles is the notion that a person is unsuitable for a job and should have that position taken away from them simply on the basis of one person's account of a single incident. Do we know any more background to the incident? Have we heard the TM's version of events? Can we judge with any certainty the character of this person's employment record and conduct? No we cannot. Is it possible that there is more to tell? Is there a chance that the OP might also have got the wrong end of the stick and, in his own words, overreacting? Yes these things are possible. And yet this TM is getting vilified. It's exactly the sort of thing that we all criticise the Daily Mail and it's readers for. It's trial by forum. The only things missing from this picture are the blazing torches and pitchforks. Would I like it if someone caught me at the wrong moment and was accidentally offended by what I might have said or done and then splashed it across an internet forum for the rest of the world to dissect and comment on? Would I be happy to have strangers who seem to have their own ideas about what I should do and how I should do it judging my competence to do my job based on such an account? Would I be happy to read some of the comments I've read here directed at the TM? No I would not, and neither would you if it was you under scrutiny.

If you believe that the OP should complain to XC then all you have to do is say so and show the TM a little respect too by allowing XC to deal with the matter.

O L Leigh

 

[185]

Having had time to think it over I think you're both right that it probably wasn't worth the fuss. I think I was just embarrassed at having been singled out in that way. I've actually seen this TM a few times and he's never given me an issue with my m-tickets before, so I don't know why he's suddenly got a problem with them...

I would complain, in fairness. He should have apologised, I would have. Staff do make mental assumptions about a passenger from appearance, that will never change, but treat all the same and only ever ask to see a ticket - no comeback then. People could complain, but after all that is one of the main things we are paid for, and a company would look stupid for disciplining someone for actually checking a ticket.

 

[BestWestern]

Rather stumped at those who seem to think this interaction was perfecy acceptable, and that's speaking as somebody doing the same job. This guy was quite clearly insulting to the OP on a personal level, and then followed that up with a completely bizarre telling off about some made up issue with a perfectly legitimate and valid ticket. A complaint is the correct course of action here.

 

[Class377]

I still fail to see why the TM couldn't have just waited a few minutes into the journey then commenced a "full" ticket check starting in first class. If his suspicion were to be correct at that point, he could have moved the passenger into standard with much less hassle.

As it stood, he detracted from the overall first class experience for a paying customer and portrayed a bad image of his company. A good day's work eh...

 

[Antman]

I addressed this point when it was raised by Fahad earlier. My response is actually the quote to which you are replying.



Pardon me, but the OP was asking for opinions. I have given mine and I don't believe it is any less valid than anyone else's.

However, I will just reiterate my view one more time. I have not excused the TM or shifted the blame entirely onto the OP, although I don't think that the OP has exactly covered himself in glory by his actions either. That said, his actions do not remove his right to complain if he wishes to do so, a right that I have not denied. If he feels so strongly that he wishes to complain then he absolutely should do so.

What rankles is the notion that a person is unsuitable for a job and should have that position taken away from them simply on the basis of one person's account of a single incident. Do we know any more background to the incident? Have we heard the TM's version of events? Can we judge with any certainty the character of this person's employment record and conduct? No we cannot. Is it possible that there is more to tell? Is there a chance that the OP might also have got the wrong end of the stick and, in his own words, overreacting? Yes these things are possible. And yet this TM is getting vilified. It's exactly the sort of thing that we all criticise the Daily Mail and it's readers for. It's trial by forum. The only things missing from this picture are the blazing torches and pitchforks. Would I like it if someone caught me at the wrong moment and was accidentally offended by what I might have said or done and then splashed it across an internet forum for the rest of the world to dissect and comment on? Would I be happy to have strangers who seem to have their own ideas about what I should do and how I should do it judging my competence to do my job based on such an account? Would I be happy to read some of the comments I've read here directed at the TM? No I would not, and neither would you if it was you under scrutiny.

If you believe that the OP should complain to XC then all you have to do is say so and show the TM a little respect too by allowing XC to deal with the matter.

O L Leigh

Blazing torches and pitchforks.............oh come on

Obviously the TM will have the opportunity to put his side over if and when he is summoned for a chat with his boss.