Worth complaining, or am I overreacting?

[rdeez]

I could use a second opinion here. Yesterday I travelled on a CrossCountry service and received what I feel to be poor treatment by the train manager.

As I often do, I purchased an advance ticket via XC's mobile app (m-ticket), first class. For those who don't know, these are entirely phone based and displayed on screen.

This was a quiet late night service. As I boarded and entered the first class coach, the train manager was walking down the aisle. He immediately said to me "wrong way, wrong way". I said "excuse me?" and he said "This is first class" and I said "yes, I know". He said "Are you first class?" and I replied "yes, don't I look like it?" (with what I intended as a jokey smile). He asked to see my ticket and I produced my mobile ticket on my phone and showed it to him. He asked me why I didn't buy a ticket from "a machine" and I said I often buy my tickets on the app. He then said "carry on" and went back to the vestibule to despatch the train.

Now, it's worth pointing out that another man boarded at the same time as me in 1st, and was directly behind me. He wasn't challenged in any way by the train manager, nor did the TM check his ticket at any time during the journey right up to New Street (when the TM left the train). Indeed, the train manager sat at the back of first class with his phone.

Noting that he didn't check the other man's ticket I felt slightly aggrieved, so as the train approached New Street I decided to exit via the rearmost door and ask the train manager why he asked to see my ticket but not his, and pointed out that for all he knew, the man didn't have a ticket at all. The TM smiled and said "I've been on the railway more than 30 years. I know types. You are travelling in the wrong way. You should buy your ticket from a machine." I asked him if he was implying that tickets from his company's own app were invalid, and he said "Look, just leave the train please" (we had by now arrived at New Street). I started to ask the question again and he said "Look, you are abusing me, leave the train now."

Not wanting to escalate the situation needlessly, and realising I wasn't going to get any answers from him, I simply told him I thought he had been very rude and disembarked as he asked.

Now, I've no objection to being challenged to produce a ticket at any time. It's the way things should be. But I felt quite annoyed that I had been singled out, when he didn't even bother to ask the other guy for a ticket (possibly on the basis that I'm a young guy and the other guy was middle aged, I don't know). I also think it's bizzare that this TM is implying that mobile tickets are any less acceptable than a paper ticket, and to be accused of 'abuse' for asking him for clarification of his position is just absurd.

Having said that I know it's easy to get caught up in a situation that you don't see that you contributed to it in some way.

I'm inclined to complain to XC. What would you do? Was it wrong of me to challenge him about it?

 

[PermitToTravel]

I'd not have challenged him personally. The stereotyping is something that unfortunately happens everywhere, and I don't think it's something he'll stop doing either way.

His response after you challenged him though is absolutely bizarre, and it's definitely worth providing some feedback about that.

 

[Abpj17]

Very bizarre.

To be fair, the age of first class travellers probably is a little older. If it was based on race, it would definitely be worth a complaint.

Probably not worth the challenge - but what a quote! Perhaps worth a tweet to the TOC noting that their staff are implying that mobile tickets aren't valid

 

[rdeez]

Having had time to think it over I think you're both right that it probably wasn't worth the fuss. I think I was just embarrassed at having been singled out in that way. I've actually seen this TM a few times and he's never given me an issue with my m-tickets before, so I don't know why he's suddenly got a problem with them...

 

[TimG]

Having had time to think it over I think you're both right that it probably wasn't worth the fuss. I think I was just embarrassed at having been singled out in that way. I've actually seen this TM a few times and he's never given me an issue with my m-tickets before, so I don't know why he's suddenly got a problem with them...

I disagree. Complain. How else will they learn?

 

[crewmeal]

Agreed you should complain. '30 years service' as he put it is no excuse for rudeness. In fact he should be an expert on addressing passengers politely to achieve his aim. Were you wearing jeans I wonder? You'd be surprised the amount of 'experienced' customer service positions still look down on folk who wear jeans. After all he told you he knows the 'type'

Also worth noting gone are the days where folk in charge use the excuse 'having a bad day' This is 2014 where the pressures of life are different from 30 years ago.

Good luck let us know how you get on.

 

[Antman]

This bloke seems to have a serious attitude problem and I would most certainly complain, if things like this are not bought to managements attention they won't know about it, TOC's rely on customer feedback whether it be good or bad.

 

[Clip]

Yes, complain about his attitude towards you - if you dont then he will keep on being an obnoxious git and drag the rest of the good men and women who work on the railway down to his level in the publics eye.

 

[talldave]

Yes, complain about his attitude towards you - if you dont then he will keep on being an obnoxious git and drag the rest of the good men and women who work on the railway down to his level in the publics eye.

Agree. Dinosaurs are meant to be extinct.

Of course you could also have pointed out that your phone has a touchscreen that actually works!

 

[OLJR]

The staff member's behaviour was completely out of order and I would complain - if Cross Country's CEO has an e-mail address on www.ceoemail.com I would take my complaint straight to the top.

 

[Clip]

The staff member's behaviour was completely out of order and I would complain - if Cross Country's CEO has an e-mail address on www.ceoemail.com I would take my complaint straight to the top.

Why? It will only get bumped down to CS anyway.

 

[O L Leigh]

I'm inclined to think that you might be making more out of it than is intended.

While it can be a mistake to categorise people based on their age or appearance, I do have some sympathy with the TM. Generally it's easier to move someone out of 1st class before they've sat down rather than after they've settled into a seat, mostly because some people genuinely don't know that they've taken a wrong turn. He may have felt justified by checking your ticket to verify that you were in the correct part of the train even though he did not intend to carry out a full ticket check.

As for this other chap, well I'm not sure what to make of it. Presumably he saw your exchange with the TM and was also aware of the TM travelling in the same coach. It might just be my impression but a fare-dodger (or even wrongly seated person) would need some brass neck to just sit down in 1st in plain sight.

Of course there's no question about the validity of m-tickets, but they can be a PITA. Not everyone is willing to allow the conductor/TM to validate them.

By all means complain if you feel sufficiently aggrieved. But I will just say that I consider your own attitude appears to have been a little bit "chippy" too. It may not have been intended, but that's how it comes across from my own reading and, if the TM also saw it that way, he may have considered that you were haranguing him. The TM seemed content to allow the matter to pass once he'd satisfied himself that you were entitled to travel in 1st class, but it was you who went back for a second bite of the cherry and escalated the matter. I'm not saying that the TM did everything right, but your account of the incident reads like it's six of one and half a dozen of the other.

O L Leigh

 

[Searle]

Please complain, just because it's made me angry by reading it

 

[Greenback]

Although I wouldn't have gone back to the TM looking for answers, and I don't think the attempt at a jokey response was a good idea, I'd make a factual report about what happened to XC.

 

[W-on-Sea]

I think you should certainly complain. He was being blatantly presumptuous and disrespectful - not good for his employers' image at all.

 

[dave87016]

I think the OP is correct to complain, I know plenty of Railway staff in various roles including Train Managers and have huge respect for the job they do.

However I would not allow a checkout operator in Morrisons or Waitrose etc to speak to me in the way the TM spoke to the OP without defending myself politely, I to would complain about the TM's way of dealing with the incident, he could simply have just said ( if he had suspicions) may I see your ticket where the OP then produces his M-Ticket and the TM could simply have said Thank You, smiled and carried on with his duties, instead he took the liberty of displaying the attitude in which the OP has stated

 

[PermitToTravel]

The staff member's behaviour was completely out of order and I would complain - if Cross Country's CEO has an e-mail address on www.ceoemail.com I would take my complaint straight to the top.

Why? It will only get bumped down to CS anyway.

Let's please not have this argument again!

While it can be a mistake to categorise people based on their age or appearance, I do have some sympathy with the TM. Generally it's easier to move someone out of 1st class before they've sat down rather than after they've settled into a seat, mostly because some people genuinely don't know that they've taken a wrong turn. He may have felt justified by checking your ticket to verify that you were in the correct part of the train even though he did not intend to carry out a full ticket check.

I agree with you in principle, though think "Hello, can I have a look at your ticket?" or "Tickets please!" may be a better execution than "Wrong way, wrong way"!

 

[oldrailman]

I would certainly register your complaint, if only for the impolite way the TM addressed you throughout your dealings with him. I worked 12 years as platform staff at Bhm New St and always had it drummed into me the importance of customer service and civility to passengers. Reading your original post made me realise I would certainly have given him a big piece of my mind! As other posters have said, if he has that many years service, surely his experience in dealing with passengers should by now have refined his customer-facing attitude.

 

[fowler9]

Let's please not have this argument again!

I agree with you in principle, though think "Hello, can I have a look at your ticket?" or "Tickets please!" may be a better execution than "Wrong way, wrong way"!

What is the argument? I ask purely out of interest. If someone complains to our company it comes to me, I am a manager in the complaints team. If someone complains to the CEO, he passes it to me. the complaint procedure is exactly the same but I will feed back to him what the outcome was in case he is asked.

Anyway, I think the OP should complain. I don't think he should have confronted the TM on the way off the train. Sometimes it is best to walk away, starting another confrontation is leaving yourself open to accusations.

 

[WelshBluebird]

I'd complain personally. Not because of his attitude really (some people can take "jokey" comments the wrong way), but more because he thinks buying a ticket on the App is "wrong" somehow. To me that is a lot more worrying than a member of staff who may have an attitude because of a bad day or whatever.

 

[PermitToTravel]

What is the argument? I ask purely out of interest. If someone complains to our company it comes to me, I am a manager in the complaints team. If someone complains to the CEO, he passes it to me. the complaint procedure is exactly the same but I will feed back to him what the outcome was in case he is asked.

Anyway, I think the OP should complain. I don't think he should have confronted the TM on the way off the train. Sometimes it is best to walk away, starting another confrontation is leaving yourself open to accusations.

On many occasions previously have posters here suggested addressing a complaint to the CEO or MD of a company. On many occasions have others replied that people who do so are too arrogant to deal with non-managers and that this approach does not actually change anything as complaints are still forwarded to complaint handlers.

I'd link to examples but am posting from a mobile phone

 

[Antman]

I'm inclined to think that you might be making more out of it than is intended.

While it can be a mistake to categorise people based on their age or appearance, I do have some sympathy with the TM. Generally it's easier to move someone out of 1st class before they've sat down rather than after they've settled into a seat, mostly because some people genuinely don't know that they've taken a wrong turn. He may have felt justified by checking your ticket to verify that you were in the correct part of the train even though he did not intend to carry out a full ticket check.

As for this other chap, well I'm not sure what to make of it. Presumably he saw your exchange with the TM and was also aware of the TM travelling in the same coach. It might just be my impression but a fare-dodger (or even wrongly seated person) would need some brass neck to just sit down in 1st in plain sight.

Of course there's no question about the validity of m-tickets, but they can be a PITA. Not everyone is willing to allow the conductor/TM to validate them.

By all means complain if you feel sufficiently aggrieved. But I will just say that I consider your own attitude appears to have been a little bit "chippy" too. It may not have been intended, but that's how it comes across from my own reading and, if the TM also saw it that way, he may have considered that you were haranguing him. The TM seemed content to allow the matter to pass once he'd satisfied himself that you were entitled to travel in 1st class, but it was you who went back for a second bite of the cherry and escalated the matter. I'm not saying that the TM did everything right, but your account of the incident reads like it's six of one and half a dozen of the other.

O L Leigh

I have to say I am at a complete loss to understand how you can possibly see this as 'six of one and half a dozen of the other'. All the passenger did was make a joke which would have lightened the mood in most situations. This TM sounds like the sort of person who gives all train staff a bad name and perhaps questions need to be asked as to whether he is suitable for the job, for him to claim that the passenger was abusing him is just laughable.

 

[Busaholic]

I have to say I am at a complete loss to understand how you can possibly see this as 'six of one and half a dozen of the other'. All the passenger did was make a joke which would have lightened the mood in most situations. This TM sounds like the sort of person who gives all train staff a bad name and perhaps questions need to be asked as to whether he is suitable for the job, for him to claim that the passenger was abusing him is just laughable.

Absolutely agree - there are far too many people these days, usually in some cheap uniform, who consider their word to be law and, however rudely or disrespectfully they treat you, cannot be challenged verbally about it or they'll report you for 'harassment' or ban you or arrest you. It used not to be demeaning to be seen as a public servant and, although those days may be past, the balance has swung far too far the other way, and lots of these jobs attract the bullies who seem to get off on behaving this way.

 

[trentside]

If the account by the OP is factual, then I think there are grounds for complaint. That's not an acceptable way to speak to a paying passenger - but there are sadly some railway colleagues who feel they can get away with these things as they've been doing it for years.

However, if the account is embellished out of a sense of injustice or the heat of the moment anger, then I'd take some time and think about things for a few days before you go ahead.

 

[Saint66]

I worked in the front line customer service for nearly two years (Not on the railways, but in a supermarket) and it was drilled into me from day one that myself, and all those around me, who's roles are in customer service, should treat every customer with up-most respect. You cannot start an interaction with a customer by saying he's going the wrong way simply because of how he is dressed. (Presuming that is what the TM judged it upon)

Everyone has a bad day, I certainly did on several occasions, but I didn't allow that to impact on how I interacted with customers, and if I had in the way that this member of staff did, then I would have expected a complaint against myself.

With 30 years experience, he surely knows better.

 

[fowler9]

On many occasions previously have posters here suggested addressing a complaint to the CEO or MD of a company. On many occasions have others replied that people who do so are too arrogant to deal with non-managers and that this approach does not actually change anything as complaints are still forwarded to complaint handlers.

I'd link to examples but am posting from a mobile phone

Am with you. Personally speaking I don't think that people are too arrogant to speak to none managers, I think they believe that they are more likely to get things resolved more quickly or have money thrown at them. They are wrong in most cases, especially with large companies.

 

[asylumxl]

I'd certainly complain. I have been a FC passenger many times and, despite being casually dressed and young, have not had a rude response from staff.

Case of guilty till proven innocent it seems, which is not acceptable. It seems to me certain elements of the industry will blindly defend others in their industry.

In any other industry such behaviour wouldn't be tolerated and dodo's such as this chap would be out of a job.

 

[rdeez]

If the account by the OP is factual, then I think there are grounds for complaint. That's not an acceptable way to speak to a paying passenger - but there are sadly some railway colleagues who feel they can get away with these things as they've been doing it for years.

However, if the account is embellished out of a sense of injustice or the heat of the moment anger, then I'd take some time and think about things for a few days before you go ahead.

It's word for word accurate, as I wanted honest opinions, not for people to make me feel better by siding with me.

I'm a very non-confrontational person, and I go out of my way to avoid any kind of conflict under normal circumstances. For me, silly as it sounds, it took quite a lot of courage for me to even go up to him and ask the questions. I'm the kind of idiot who would get an awful meal and not say a word to the staff.

I went against my natural instinct this time and felt out of my depth when he reacted the way he did, but stayed calm and although I'd probably not do it again in a similar situation, I've decided I will submit a complaint to Crosscountry with a focus on his bizzare opinions on m-tickets, but with a side note about his refusal to engage with my questions and impoliteness. I work in customer service and if I treated someone that way I'd have to answer for it, I'm sure.

Thanks everyone for your thoughts and opinions. As a regular traveller on that route I'm now just dreading my next encounter with him.

 

[trentside]

I think you're taking the right approach there, rdeez.

Do let us know what response you get.

 

[talltim]

I'd link to examples but am posting from a mobile phone

Wrong way, wrong way sir! You should always use the forum from a ticket machine, err, computer