Worst lines for cancellations

[thenorthern]

The Cross-City Line must be one of the largest for cancelations simply because there are a large amount of trains and skipping stops isn't that uncommon and counts as a cancelation.

 

[PHILIPE]

I suggest you do one of two things:-

(1) Devise a method to stop leaves falling from trees
(2) You go to Clown Depot and do the job of making them fit yourself.

 

[grumblingalong]

I suggest you do one of two things:-

(1) Devise a method to stop leaves falling from trees
(2) You go to Clown Depot and do the job of making them fit yourself.

You haven't grasped my point at all so for the benefit of the forum I'll leave it here.

 

[PHILIPE]

You haven't grasped my point at all so for the benefit of the forum I'll leave it here.

I'll leave it here as well because you don't appear to understand problems and the reasons behind them.

 

[grumblingalong]

I'll leave it here as well because you don't appear to understand problems and the reasons behind them.

One more point, I'm not a clueless enthusiast, I have been employed in the rail industry in Anglia for a number of years now so I do understand the issues very clearly. Done.

 

[Dave1987]

One more point, I'm not a clueless enthusiast, I have been employed in the rail industry in Anglia for a number of years now so I do understand the issues very clearly. Done.

Now I'm very very confused. If you are a railway professional yourself then surely you know exactly why there is the current major DMU shortage and the reasons for it? Yes there is a very valid argument that a depot like Crown point should have its own wheel lathe. But thats for the govt to specify in the franchise that the TOC should build one! And on the subject of the govt it is arguably the DFT's fault the we are in the situation with the critical DMU shortages as it is. They seem far more interested in their shiny new IEP projects and Thameslink to realise the mass cancellations that are going on because of DMU shortages.

The current stock of DMU's in the east is far less than is actually needed but because there is a shortage of DMU's nationwide. The Govt refuses to order any new DMU's because of their mass electrification plans which are way over budget and taking far far longer than they said they would. All in all it creates one big mess but of course it's never ever the politicians fault! And the fact that the 153/156 WSP equipment is pretty terrible and they work on very remote lines means they are far more susceptible to wheel flats.

And I'm still trying to figure out where this mass mismanagement of the situation you claim comes from?

 

[grumblingalong]

Now I'm very very confused. If you are a railway professional yourself then surely you know exactly why there is the current major DMU shortage and the reasons for it? Yes there is a very valid argument that a depot like Crown point should have its own wheel lathe. But thats for the govt to specify in the franchise that the TOC should build one! And on the subject of the govt it is arguably the DFT's fault the we are in the situation with the critical DMU shortages as it is. They seem far more interested in their shiny new IEP projects and Thameslink to realise the mass cancellations that are going on because of DMU shortages.

The current stock of DMU's in the east is far less than is actually needed but because there is a shortage of DMU's nationwide. The Govt refuses to order any new DMU's because of their mass electrification plans which are way over budget and taking far far longer than they said they would. All in all it creates one big mess but of course it's never ever the politicians fault! And the fact that the 153/156 WSP equipment is pretty terrible and they work on very remote lines means they are far more susceptible to wheel flats.

And I'm still trying to figure out where this mass mismanagement of the situation you claim comes from?

:roll: I have not denied the nationwide shortage of DMUsMy sole point is that AGA have enough units to cover the issues were longer running mechanical problems resolved in a reasonable timescale. That is the mismanagement, more funding required for maintenance to avoid issues with availability.

A wheel lathe would be useful yes. As would loads of new units. Neither are going to happen soon and the situation needs to be more closely controlled to avoid failing to provide a service for extended periods which I'm sure we all agree is not acceptable.

 

[Dave1987]

:roll: I have not denied the nationwide shortage of DMUsMy sole point is that AGA have enough units to cover the issues were longer running mechanical problems resolved in a reasonable timescale. That is the mismanagement, more funding required for maintenance to avoid issues with availability.

A wheel lathe would be useful yes. As would loads of new units. Neither are going to happen soon and the situation needs to be more closely controlled to avoid failing to provide a service for extended periods which I'm sure we all agree is not acceptable.

But your argument doesn't hold water at all though. They don't have the units to cover. Units are patched up and put back into service because they simply haven't got they spare units to cover while they are out being repaired.

 

[grumblingalong]

But your argument doesn't hold water at all though. They don't have the units to cover. Units are patched up and put back into service because they simply haven't got they spare units to cover while they are out being repaired.

How does maintaining units to avoid shortfalls not add up? :roll: If there aren't enough units then the company needs to look into other options, the issues with that have been discussed at length and don't need to be covered again, something could be sorted such as more spot use of an East Mids 158 (one took a trip to Sheringham recently) There are solutions out there. So we come back to the situation not being managed.

Other TOCs nationwide have been dealing with the same DMU issues, the same excessive railhead contamination and yet still manage not to totally shut two branches and significantly reduce service on the others.

Don't count me as one of the many Abellio bashers I'll credit and criticise where necessary.

A Train Operating Company failing to provide a train service equates that said company is not properly managing its affairs.

 

[Parallel]

GWR:

The Bristol - Great Malvern leg is usually quite bad for cancellations. There seems to be at least one train a day that is cancelled at Worcester Shrub Hill, and they only run approximately once every two hours.

Portsmouth Harbour - Cardiff Central is another. Late services regularly get turned around at Newport (Platform 1).

If you're talking about full journeys, the Paddington - Cardiff train must be high up there, whenever there is disruption towards London Paddington, it is usually the first service to go.

 

[crispy1978]

I know the Colne - Blackpool South (and reverse) was having a lot of cancellations/stopping short a few weeks/couple of months back as I commented about it on the forum as I've got family who use that line frequently.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
First 4 services on the Barton Line cancelled again today I see.

 

[Dave1987]

How does maintaining units to avoid shortfalls not add up? :roll: If there aren't enough units then the company needs to look into other options, the issues with that have been discussed at length and don't need to be covered again, something could be sorted such as more spot use of an East Mids 158 (one took a trip to Sheringham recently) There are solutions out there. So we come back to the situation not being managed.

Other TOCs nationwide have been dealing with the same DMU issues, the same excessive railhead contamination and yet still manage not to totally shut two branches and significantly reduce service on the others.

Don't count me as one of the many Abellio bashers I'll credit and criticise where necessary.

A Train Operating Company failing to provide a train service equates that said company is not properly managing its affairs.

Shall we leave it there you clearly just don't understand the issues which is surprising and we are going round in circles.

 

[grumblingalong]

Shall we leave it there you clearly just don't understand the issues which is surprising and we are going round in circles.

It's not me that's failing to understand hence why I've had to repeat myself endlessly......but yes as previously attempted it's better left!

 

[HarleyDavidson]

Any Southern service west of Havant is liable to get cancelled as soon as trouble hits further up the line.

Actually you'll find that if things go pear shaped on the direct, they sling things down via Eastleigh, subject to route knowledge (long running joke).

And I'd agree with Deepgreen in that GWR across the NDL couldn't run a decent service if they tried, it should prove quite interesting when they try to run 3 trains an hour, when they can't run the existing service!

 

[Taunton]

North of Queens Park has behaved in recent months.

Optimism sadly misplaced, I'm afraid. 12 hours after we discussed this, the morning peak service today (Tue 17 Nov) is again "No Bakerloo Line north of Queens Park.

 

[berneyarms]

It's a few years ago now, but when services from the Cambrian and Shrewsbury terminated at Birmingham New Street, they had a tight turnaround. If an incoming service was late (which, with the single-track Cambrian, can happen often) it would generally be turned at Wolverhampton to get it returning on time, much to the frustratioon of passengers in Birmingham. Services now run through to International and have nearly an hour's layover, which has solved this issue, at the cost of an extra diagram.
Or did you have something else in mind?

No they don't - they turn around at Birmingham International in 20 minutes and 10 minutes at Aberystwyth.

They do however have a 10-15 minute wait at Shrewsbury in either direction which does allow for recovery.

 

[crispy1978]

First 4 services on the Barton Line cancelled again today I see.

Two more cancelled - that's 6 out of 18 today.

 

[Taunton]

There's a certain tipping point of reliability where your market just gives up, and don't even go to the station any more. This then becomes self-fulfilling, because the management attitude is "well nobody ever uses it anyway, so what's the point".

 

[185]

Marston Vale and Borderlands seem to suffer a fair bit, due to little or no slack in the local fleet (both) and tight turnarounds at each end (Borderlands).

Was just about to mention Borderlands. Been watching the delays, often seem to be crew change issues at Wrexham General or simple unit faults.

The crew change issues are directly related to poor diagramming (insufficient slack) of staff travelling pass from Chester to Wrexham on Cardiff bound trains, often delayed. The repeated engine failures, and vehicle faults on the 150s are entirely avoidable.

It's a shame this 'oddball' line isn't in a more local franchise to the area, either Northern or Merseyrail, where (proper) maintenance and traincrew depots aren't the other end of a country. :roll:

Yes, I was stuck (again) at Heswall last week.

 

[PHILIPE]

Was just about to mention Borderlands. Been watching the delays, often seem to be crew change issues at Wrexham General or simple unit faults.

The crew change issues are directly related to poor diagramming (insufficient slack) of staff travelling pass from Chester to Wrexham on Cardiff bound trains, often delayed. The repeated engine failures, and vehicle faults on the 150s are entirely avoidable.

It's a shame this 'oddball' line isn't in a more local franchise to the area, either Northern or Merseyrail, where (proper) maintenance and traincrew depots aren't the other end of a country. :roll:

Yes, I was stuck (again) at Heswall last week.

How are the faults on the 150s avoidable ?
Diagramming universally does not allow slack. If the train the train crew travel on is the latest one to arrive before relief is effected so be it. You would finish up by requiring additional crews by the end of the day. It is not the fault of the diagram but the fact that the train the crew were travelling on ran late.

 

[hounddog]

How are the faults on the 150s avoidable ?

By proper maintenance?

 

[grumblingalong]

By proper maintenance?

Dont go there

 

[ChiefPlanner]

Obviously cancellation rates are carefully monitored in franchise management , with penalties for cancelations , (full and partial) , and breach and default levels. The latter being commercially confidential.

Operators are carefully watched over endemic cancellations and concentrations on particular lines / service groups. Far more so than on say the LUL network.

Some routes tend to have problems - the impact on say the Sutton loop on GTR can be tricky at times ....

 

[Tetchytyke]

Any service which has LM in the timetable...

*ducks*
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
As for rolling stock shortages, if all the units are out of service with similar issues then I don't see how it is anything other than a serious management failing. Autumn leaves are not unusual and the industry should be preapared.

As for the Broderlands, again the issue is bad management. The line has no recovery time whatsoever and is intensively diagrammed, with crew as well as stock, that way purely to save Arriva some readies.

 

[crispy1978]

There's a certain tipping point of reliability where your market just gives up, and don't even go to the station any more. This then becomes self-fulfilling, because the management attitude is "well nobody ever uses it anyway, so what's the point".

Absolutely. Can fully understand that.

Are these cancelled services bustituted?

Guessing people use these for work, but if they aren't reliable I can see why people wouldn't use them.

Why do TPE operate the Barton Line? I see 185s used to do the early run, but that ceased a couple of years back.

 

[Boothby97]

Why do TPE operate the Barton Line? I see 185s used to do the early run, but that ceased a couple of years back.

TPE operate the Barton line because other than the Saturdays only Brigg line service Northern Rail do not have any services that run down to Grimsby/Cleethorpes (the closet they get otherwise is Scunthorpe or Lincoln). So Northern provide the rolling stock (a 153) and TPE provide the crew from their Cleethorpes depot.
TPE did used to use a 185 on the 0600 Cleethorpes-Barton and back although it to miss out certain stops due to low platform heights (Grimsby Docks, Great Coates and Thornton Abbey, plus New Clee* and maybe the odd other).
* New Clee is still only served by services in the 'daylight hours' (between around 0845 and 1500) despite having had station lights installed earlier this year http://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/sea...18/0000-2359?stp=WVS&show=pax-calls&order=wtt

The line does actually see two different 153s, one works an early service from Doncaster to Cleethorpes on weekdays (Saturdays runs in empty) and does the 0700 Cleethorpes to Barton and back, before working on the line for the rest of the day (a two hourly service) and then spends the night at Cleethorpes. The second unit starts from Cleethorpes (stables there from the previous day), does the 0600 Cleethorpes to Barton, 0658 Barton to Grimsby, then empty to Scunthorpe and onto the Scunthorpe-Lincoln line for the day.


Thanks, Sam

 

[XC90]

Didn't read whole thread so may be mentioned already.

Cumbernauld - Motherwell route is regularly cancelled. This route is served by services from Dalmuir but is often terminated and restarted from Motherwell due to late running caused by the volume of services through Patrick. Only an hourly service too!

....and to compound this, quite often the Cumbernauld service via Glasqow Queen street low level is terminated at Springburn for the same reason but it does have 3 services an hour from Sprîngburn to Cumbernauld.

 

[paul1609]

...and for clarification, that does include trouble up the line in SWT territory as well

On the other end of the Coastway the morning Rye to Ashford shuttles are always the first casualty in the event of 171 issues with customers just expected to wait 30 mins for the next service.

 

[krus_aragon]

No they don't - they turn around at Birmingham International in 20 minutes and 10 minutes at Aberystwyth.

They do however have a 10-15 minute wait at Shrewsbury in either direction which does allow for recovery.

You're quite right. It was a bit lazy of me to put all the recovery time at the Birmingham end without checking my figures.

 

[GrimsbyPacer]

No trains in Grimsby ran after 9am today of all train companies.
This is because someone's on the railway bridge and won't come down.