Work on Okehampton Line: progress updates

[Charlie Smythe]

I read that as 'it would be worth losing the current bay platform facing the wrong direction in order to get through platforms' - as in worth the loss of a bay platform. That seems beyond a doubt. Whether its worth the money is, as you say, quite another thing. I wonder if a cheaper solution, given the huge length of the platforms, would be to reinstate a through line, with a cross over, to allow platform 3 to be operated as an independent A and B section, which would allow trains from the west to terminate without blocking through lines. Obviously this would only make sense if there was capacity (and desire) to fit even more trains through St Davids, but it sounds a lot cheaper than most of the other rebuilding options

As you say the platforms are long enough for two trains and the point work, although it might get a bit tight if you had two 6 car 159’s in there, but that’s unlikely. It’s would most likely only be one 6 car 159 and one 4 car 150/2. In which case there would be plenty of space.

You would want two middle roads though, as otherwise it could get busy.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 29 Jan 2021 ==

Or, how about a middle platform with a single through road which can be used to terminate two trains from either direction. They wouldn’t have to be bay platforms, but they would need to be signalled to allow and A and B end.

 

[northernbelle]

I thought Okehampton service was going into platform 2 in Exeter St David's in the short term but if the second siding is reinstated at Exmouth Junction then they go there. All trains if possible should stop at Exeter Central although station could do with another exit at street level from platform 3 to Queen Street.

Only a few services will terminate at Exeter St Davids - with many going through to Central from the outset.

 

[Charlie Smythe]

Only a few services will terminate at Exeter St Davids - with many going through to Central from the outset.

How long is it until trains are expected to start terminating at Pinhoe? I am assuming it would be this side of May and that we’re looking at more like December?

 

[30907]

As you say the platforms are long enough for two trains and the point work, although it might get a bit tight if you had two 6 car 159’s in there, but that’s unlikely. It’s would most likely only be one 6 car 159 and one 4 car 150/2. In which case there would be plenty of space.

You would want two middle roads though, as otherwise it could get busy.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 29 Jan 2021 ==

Or, how about a middle platform with a single through road which can be used to terminate two trains from either direction. They wouldn’t have to be bay platforms, but they would need to be signalled to allow and A and B end.

You only really need a loop alongside the west end of a platform as the east bay provides for terminating trains at that end. Better, though, would be a central reversing siding at the East end accessed from both through platforms - saves running "wrong line" up the bank.

 

[Charlie Smythe]

You only really need a loop alongside the west end of a platform as the east bay provides for terminating trains at that end. Better, though, would be a central reversing siding at the East end accessed from both through platforms - saves running "wrong line" up the bank.

There is if course plenty of room for this to the east. It wouldn’t need to be that long (maybe enough for 6 coaches) and could start before New North Road bridge. Wouldn’t that that complicated, just 3 points and the associated signalling.

 

[fgwrich]

You only really need a loop alongside the west end of a platform as the east bay provides for terminating trains at that end. Better, though, would be a central reversing siding at the East end accessed from both through platforms - saves running "wrong line" up the bank.

Eg, The Bournemouth Station Solution.

Personally though, rather than rebuilding Central with fancy bay platforms or sidings, I would rather see Improvements done to the Avocet line and perhaps double tracking through to Topsham. Anyway, that is more for the speculative threads.

Hopefully though, with the impetus to crack on with the Devon Metro at last, NR will speed up the West Of England Capacity proposals and crack on with Pinhoe - Yeovil - Even if it's primary objective is to act as a diversionary route.

 

[Charlie Smythe]

Unfortunately, I think the days where the SR was competing with the GWR for passenger from London to the West are well and truly over.

If you’re in London and you want to go anywhere west of Exeter, then GWR is the best option. The only reason to use SWR over GWR is if you want to travel to any of the station between London and Exeter on that route, or you’re destination is Exeter itself, in which case SWR makes more sense, especially if you want to go to Central as the GWR of course requires a change.

Any upgrades to the WoE line will be to aid in its ability to act as a diversionary route to the GWR, which at the moment it can do buy requires a serious thin service to be run by GWR and complete eliminates XC from the timetable. In the CPMS released last year, it was stated that they propose a passing loop from Whimple to Cranbrook (logic would say to Pinhoe but the M5 ruins that) to allow a more regular service. It also mentions a second station at Cranbrook and also a second platform at the current station, which, pre COVID at least, was a decent performer. Extensions of the loop at Axminster was also proposed to allow dynamic passing.

Does anyone remember the proposed intermodal depot planned for the Pinhoe area? Had that been built it could have changed the rail network.

 

[221129]

If you’re in London and you want to go anywhere west of Exeter, then GWR is the best option.

Not always. Depends where in London you are starting from.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 29 Jan 2021 ==

The only reason to use SWR over GWR is if you want to travel to any of the station between London and Exeter on that route, or you’re destination is Exeter itself, in which case SWR makes more sense, especially if you want to go to Central as the GWR of course requires a change.

The main reason is cost. A lot of people will use SWR as it is often cheaper, especially once you factor in getting to Paddington.

 

[Charlie Smythe]

Eg, The Bournemouth Station Solution.

Personally though, rather than rebuilding Central with fancy bay platforms or sidings, I would rather see Improvements done to the Avocet line and perhaps double tracking through to Topsham. Anyway, that is more for the speculative threads.

I wasn’t aware of the track layout in Bournemouth, but having a look at it I can see that it is very similar to what is being proposed here. All of this will never happens of course as NR have no interest in it.

 

[Irascible]

Not always. Depends where in London you are starting from.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 29 Jan 2021 ==


The main reason is cost. A lot of people will use SWR as it is often cheaper, especially once you factor in getting to Paddington.

Comfort too - GWR is a miserable experience compared to the 159s, even if it's an hour quicker to Exeter, and the comfort issue sells it for me. Paddington vs Waterloo is not a big deal at all unless you're working in the actual city itself.

 

[Charlie Smythe]

Comfort too - GWR is a miserable experience compared to the 159s, even if it's an hour quicker to Exeter, and the comfort issue sells it for me. Paddington vs Waterloo is not a big deal at all unless you're working in the actual city itself.

That’s a fair point. The 159’s are an excellent experience and in a few years time when they’re replaced (estimated to be a tender around the time of the franchise renewal) it will be sad to see them go, especially if their replacement is as tacky as most modern stuff is.

Imagine 68’s and mk5’s for the WoE, now that would be a premium service.

 

[reddragon]

Unfortunately, I think the days where the SR was competing with the GWR for passenger from London to the West are well and truly over.

If you’re in London and you want to go anywhere west of Exeter, then GWR is the best option. The only reason to use SWR over GWR is if you want to travel to any of the station between London and Exeter on that route, or you’re destination is Exeter itself, in which case SWR makes more sense, especially if you want to go to Central as the GWR of course requires a change.

Any upgrades to the WoE line will be to aid in its ability to act as a diversionary route to the GWR, which at the moment it can do buy requires a serious thin service to be run by GWR and complete eliminates XC from the timetable. In the CPMS released last year, it was stated that they propose a passing loop from Whimple to Cranbrook (logic would say to Pinhoe but the M5 ruins that) to allow a more regular service. It also mentions a second station at Cranbrook and also a second platform at the current station, which, pre COVID at least, was a decent performer. Extensions of the loop at Axminster was also proposed to allow dynamic passing.

Does anyone remember the proposed intermodal depot planned for the Pinhoe area? Had that been built it could have changed the rail network.

I would not agree with you on this.

A typical GWR train takes 2h30 to reach Exeter although I am sure that The Cornish Riviera does it nearer 2 hours once a day.
A typical Southern train takes 3h22 to reach Exeter, 50 minutes slower but in steam days this was under 3 hours, just 25m slower!

If speed is your main criteria, some track upgrades and class 800 stock could easily get this down to a time closer to the current GWR time. Then allow for the fact that Waterloo, Woking & Basingstoke plus most of the Southern Region where there is not a small population catchment would take more than that time gap to reach Paddington! Waterloo to Paddington is 30m on the tube!

Then convenience & cost. Why travel to Paddington if Waterloo (accessible without the tube) is easier from all of the southern area? Then why not stay on the train to Plymouth when you have a seat, no connections or inconvenience? The extra travel time will be less than the connection time!

 

[Irascible]

I would not agree with you on this.

A typical GWR train takes 2h30 to reach Exeter although I am sure that The Cornish Riviera does it nearer 2 hours once a day.
A typical Southern train takes 3h22 to reach Exeter, 50 minutes slower but in steam days this was under 3 hours, just 25m slower!

If speed is your main criteria, some track upgrades and class 800 stock could easily get this down to a time closer to the current GWR time. Then allow for the fact that Waterloo, Woking & Basingstoke plus most of the Southern Region where there is not a small population catchment would take more than that time gap to reach Paddington! Waterloo to Paddington is 30m on the tube!

Then convenience & cost. Why travel to Paddington if Waterloo (accessible without the tube) is easier from all of the southern area? Then why not stay on the train to Plymouth when you have a seat, no connections or inconvenience? The extra travel time will be less than the connection time!

Comparing a GWR semi-fast with the WoE might be a bit more fair - SWR has to stop everywhere. That of course makes SWR look even better! when I lived in London I really didn't care which route I took when it came to getting to the terminus, unless you're doing it as a daily commute ( there's a rare few who do that from Exeter yes & they're the only ones who have the choice we're talking about ) wending your way across the tube hyperspace is just a thing you do.

If SWR started going to Plymouth again I'd be quite inclined to go with them westward. Not many good memories of 158s on the Devon banks but I always seemed to get on one with an engine out in the past...

The whole route could do with an upgrade and if Paddington is already at it's limit then it will have to be at some point, but first I'd really like to see the Metro happen which means doing the Axminster-Exeter bit pronto. Hopefully the Oke part will be a lever to start that rolling & that will *eventually* end up with the Axminster-Salisbury bit getting some attention too.

Anyway, dangerously close to a bit far off topic...

 

[Charlie Smythe]

class 800 stock

I don’t know about that.

The 8xx classes are not regional stopping trains and are no suited to the route at all, especially when it comes to a intensive stops west of Yeovil.

What would be more appropriate is maybe some Stadler 755 units with third rail capability. Only issue is the lack of vestibules to keep the whether out of the seating are in the coach. 68’s and mk5’s would be nice aha.

 

[Irascible]

I don’t know about that.

The 8xx classes are not regional stopping trains and are no suited to the route at all, especially when it comes to a intensive stops west of Yeovil.

What would be more appropriate is maybe some Stadler 755 units with third rail capability. Only issue is the lack of vestibules to keep the whether out of the seating are in the coach. 68’s and mk5’s would be nice aha.

Anything that runs west of Plymouth is a regional stopping train, as is anything running the semis on the B&H route. 68s & mk5s have a few problems splitting services...

Gone OT again, going to stop there.

 

[pompeyfan]

Anything that runs west of Plymouth is a regional stopping train, as is anything running the semis on the B&H route. 68s & mk5s have a few problems splitting services...

Gone OT again, going to stop there.

Its an interesting topic and deserves a thread, might be worth starting a thread in the speculative ideas thread although it wasn’t long since this subject last came up

 

[30907]

Eg, The Bournemouth Station Solution.

Thanks, I knew there was somewhere obvious for comparison.

Personally though, rather than rebuilding Central with fancy bay platforms or sidings, I would rather see Improvements done to the Avocet line and perhaps double tracking through to Topsham.

If you could guarantee that nothing would need to terminate at Central, then a reversing siding would be unnecessary - but I'm not so sure!

 

[Charlie Smythe]

Thanks, I knew there was somewhere obvious for comparison.

If you could guarantee that nothing would need to terminate at Central, then a reversing siding would be unnecessary - but I'm not so sure!

As much as I would like to see a central reversing siding I don’t think it will be needed. Anything that doesn’t run to Pinhoe will run to Exmouth Junction where it can be reversed there.

Also, Exmouth Junction’s sidings are plenty long enough for the trains it handles, and could also handle a 5 or 9 car IET if there was ever a need, which there is unlikely to be.

Central is the obvious reversing point, but it’s a lot of hassle and could be expensive.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 29 Jan 2021 ==

Dedicated thread for WoE rolling stock and services should anyone be interested

https://www.railforums.co.uk/threads/future-rolling-stock-and-upgrades-for-the-woe-line.213638/

 

[Mag_seven]

Dedicated thread for WoE rolling stock and services should anyone be interested

https://www.railforums.co.uk/threads/future-rolling-stock-and-upgrades-for-the-woe-line.213638/

Thanks for starting that thread @50007hoover

Can I therefore request that all future posts in this thread are on topic please i.e. they are progress updates of the preliminary work on the Oakhampton line.

Thank You.

 

[yorkie]

Just a gentle reminder that this is an Infrastructure & Stations thread to discuss project updates

Any speculative ideas belong in the Speculative Ideas section, please.

I have moved some recent posts into to the following thread: hhttps://www.railforums.co.uk/threads/proposals-to-reopen-exeter-to-plymouth-via-okehampton.212160/

 

[fgwrich]

Something crossed my mind earlier, with the focus now on returning services back to Okehampton at last, what is happening about the proposed Okehampton Parkway, Is that coming later or will they decide to construct it while they have the line now?

 

[yorkie]

Something crossed my mind earlier, with the focus now on returning services back to Okehampton at last, what is happening about the proposed Okehampton Parkway, Is that coming later or will they decide to construct it while they have the line now?

I am sure someone will post an update regarding this when one is available but there is no information on it now.

 

[REVUpminster]

East of Okehampton masterplan has the station as part of parcel 1 with a contribution from the developer. except for a bit of new road and a roundabout not much has been developed.

 

[REVUpminster]

Sunday night 21 February 2021 6C97, at Crediton, delivered rail to Okehampton from Westbury. Returned Monday morning.

Another load Thursday night.

 

[Brush 4]

...and here are the new supply of sleepers, taken at 4.45pm Feb 22. Also, new timbers on the left and a small heap of ballast. Looking good so far. Odd that this sort of thing is classed as enabling works, as if it is separate from construction work, which seems to be the name given after funding is agreed. If all this work was done then the project cancelled, that would be gross financial mismanagement. If it is a fait accompli that enabling works means funding has been agreed anyway then why not call it construction work. Seems like playing around with language to me but, to what effect and what purpose?

 

[Dunfanaghy Rd]

The piles of dunnage suggest to me that a lot of sleepers have already gone to site.
Pat

 

[Dave Beeching]

Great pics @REVUpminster and @Brush 4

 

[REVUpminster]

Great pics @REVUpminster and @Brush 4

Unfortunately not mine. Google is a wonderful thing.

 

[Devonman2014]

The piles of dunnage suggest to me that a lot of sleepers have already gone to site.
Pat

From talk in okehampton There have apparently been over 2000 sleepers taken to site by rail in 2 trainloads. I have personally seen deliveries by lorry as well (passed a few lorries with several hundred per lorry on driving through okehampton).
There’s also been 4 delivery trains of CWR by Colas to the point I think over 80% of the route Now has CWR ready to be or already installed.

Was also a test train down branch a while ago so the works are definitely progressing.

Haven’t seen or heard of any ballast trains going In or out though ??

 

[Bald Rick]

I have personally seen deliveries by lorry as well (passed a few lorries with several hundred per lorry on driving through okehampton).

Unlikely to be more than 100 per lorry; each new concrete sleeper (G44 type) weighs over 300kg. 100 of those is 30 tonnes.