WMR Class 196 Build and Implementation

[TT-ONR-NRN]

Thanks, helps explain my experience.

Still seems like a control system you might find on a 1970s car rather than a 2020s train!

Definitely far more commonly seen these days than you might think.

 

[newtownmgr]

Its a diesel mechanical drive with a 6 speed gearbox

ZF ecolife 6 speed although 6th gear is isolated on the 196’s as it is on the 172’s

 

[GWVillager]

ZF ecolife 6 speed although 6th gear is isolated on the 196’s as it is on the 172’s

Why is this? Would it theoretically increase the maximum speed?

 

[newtownmgr]

Why is this? Would it theoretically increase the maximum speed?

No. Just saves fuel i believe. 172’s will still reach 100 comfortably. 196’s are currently governed to 90. No lines they run on have speeds in excess of 90 at present

 

[12LDA28C]

No. Just saves fuel i believe. 172’s will still reach 100 comfortably. 196’s are currently governed to 90. No lines they run on have speeds in excess of 90 at present

Is this true for all 196s? The six units sub-leased for EWR work will need to be 100mph capable.

 

[Class172]

Is this true for all 196s? The six units sub-leased for EWR work will need to be 100mph capable.

I would imagine so. As I believe newtownmgr has mentioned, the 196s are currently operating in eco mode. Should 100mph capability be required if and when some are needed for EWR, then I'm sure then that can be sorted out in due course.

 

[boxerdog]

No. Just saves fuel i believe. 172’s will still reach 100 comfortably. 196’s are currently governed to 90. No lines they run on have speeds in excess of 90 at present

ECS to Coventry is more than 90mph

 

[newtownmgr]

ECS to Coventry is more than 90mph

Non booked to go ECS to Coventry.

 

[boxerdog]

Non booked to go ECS to Coventry.

There was one on Saturday. In fairness it was timed for 90mph

 

[newtownmgr]

Is this true for all 196s? The six units sub-leased for EWR work will need to be 100mph capable.

Yes. To be honest the time savings between 90 & 100 are probably negligible. Not sure of the requirements/line speed on EWR. I’m not sure whether it will be a specific sets going or just 6 sets rotating to/from Tyseley with no change to branding etc.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 14 Aug 2023 ==

There was one on Saturday. In fairness it was timed for 90mph

That was a short term planning move to put a unit in place following the overtime ban.

 

[12LDA28C]

Yes. To be honest the time savings between 90 & 100 are probably negligible. Not sure of the requirements/line speed on EWR. I’m not sure whether it will be a specific sets going or just 6 sets rotating to/from Tyseley with no change to branding etc.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 14 Aug 2023 ==

Line speed on EWR will be 100mph which is why I asked. Trains will be timed for 100. Not sure how or even if the units will be getting to Tyseley currently although I'm fairly sure they will not have WMT branding.

 

[newtownmgr]

Line speed on EWR will be 100mph which is why I asked. Trains will be timed for 100. Not sure how or even if the units will be getting to Tyseley currently although I'm fairly sure they will not have WMT branding.

As i said im not sure what’s happening or even when it’s happening. Chiltern will be operating the services on behalf of EWR i believe.

 

[boxerdog]

As i said im not sure what’s happening or even when it’s happening. Chiltern will be operating the services on behalf of EWR i believe.

I believe there are separate staff facilities being built at Bletchley for EWR.

 

[GWVillager]

Line speed on EWR will be 100mph which is why I asked. Trains will be timed for 100. Not sure how or even if the units will be getting to Tyseley currently although I'm fairly sure they will not have WMT branding.

There are of course rumours that the 196s won't be used after all. In all honesty I don't think anyone has considered any of this yet, it's an incredibly minor hurdle.

 

[12LDA28C]

There are of course rumours that the 196s won't be used after all. In all honesty I don't think anyone has considered any of this yet, it's an incredibly minor hurdle.

Not heard those rumours but I believe they are unfounded. Certainly Chiltern are expecting 196s.

 

[AJDesiro]

Not heard those rumours but I believe they are unfounded. Certainly Chiltern are expecting 196s.

The latest issue of Modern Railways states that "sources have suggested the Department (for Transport) is pressing for an alternative plan which would see DMUs from Chiltern Railways' existing fleet operate service instead."

 

[12LDA28C]

The latest issue of Modern Railways states that "sources have suggested the Department (for Transport) is pressing for an alternative plan which would see DMUs from Chiltern Railways' existing fleet operate service instead."

Hahahaha, that's a good one. Chiltern don't have enough units to run their own trains. As I said, Chiltern are currently expecting 196s. If there's a change of plan, they haven't been made aware of it.

 

[newtownmgr]

Was supposed to be 2 units going on loan for traction training in Dec. Not heard any different. However it’s now been decided that Snow Hill will learn the units & more units will be required in the west mids from Dec 2024 to cover the Camp Hill work plus other rumoured service expansions. Ultimately Transport for West Midlands will ultimately have a say as they had involvement in the 196 order i believe.

I guess we will have to wait & see as with about 18 months/2 years before any EWR services start Are scheduled to start there will be many rumours & changes.

 

[AJDesiro]

Was supposed to be 2 units going on loan for traction training in Dec. Not heard any different. However it’s now been decided that Snow Hill will learn the units & more units will be required in the west mids from Dec 2024 to cover the Camp Hill work plus other rumoured service expansions. Ultimately Transport for West Midlands will ultimately have a say as they had involvement in the 196 order i believe.

I guess we will have to wait & see as with about 18 months/2 years before any EWR services start Are scheduled to start there will be many rumours & changes.

Presumably this means they’re going to do some work on the SHL then? It makes sense given Leamington and Worcester already sign them.

 

[GWVillager]

Hahahaha, that's a good one. Chiltern don't have enough units to run their own trains. As I said, Chiltern are currently expecting 196s. If there's a change of plan, they haven't been made aware of it.

I believe this would be after the procurement of new trains for Chiltern. As Newtown says though, we’ll probably just have to wait and see.

 

[12LDA28C]

I believe this would be after the procurement of new trains for Chiltern. As Newtown says though, we’ll probably just have to wait and see.

But the new trains won't arrive for 4-5 years, well after EWR services are planned to start.

 

[newtownmgr]

But the new trains won't arrive for 4-5 years, well after EWR services are planned to start.

EWR need to get there own units sorted sooner rather than later then I’d suggest. The 196’s are only a short term loan operation to cover the initial Oxford - Bletchley section anyway.

 

[12LDA28C]

EWR need to get there own units sorted sooner rather than later then I’d suggest. The 196’s are only a short term loan operation to cover the initial Oxford - Bletchley section anyway.

Oxford - Milton Keynes. It'll be many years before the next section to Bedford is in operation.

 

[newtownmgr]

Oxford - Milton Keynes. It'll be many years before the next section to Bedford is in operation.

Will be interesting to see what the frequency of service will be with only 6 x 2 car sets supposedly going on loan.

Transport for West Mids want a 30 min interval service on the Camp Hill formed of 4 cars so will potentially need them for that & they will have priority i’m assuming.

 

[GalaxyDog]

As if the Snow Hill lines didn't need any more aspects of operation under the cackhanded WMR crippling its organisation - now it too will suffer the 196s breaking down and unable to do their job atop the timetabling disaster still not fixed or the traincrew shortage issues galore? Good grief. WMR really hates the Dark Side.

 

[Techniquest]

It was great to be back out yesterday on a 196, it had felt like many moons had passed since my last one! With winner 196010 showing as allocated to the 1848 Hereford-Birmingham New Street yesterday (14/08/2023), I wolfed my food down and was out for a journey to Malvern Link. It was with 196007, and the 1950 from Hereford was due to be 196005+196012 for anyone curious

Attached photo is of 196010 at Malvern Link, just 196011 remains out of the 196/0s to be had

 

[12LDA28C]

Will be interesting to see what the frequency of service will be with only 6 x 2 car sets supposedly going on loan.

Transport for West Mids want a 30 min interval service on the Camp Hill formed of 4 cars so will potentially need them for that & they will have priority i’m assuming.

Half-hourly service is planned initially, this has been well discussed elsewhere on this forum. I assume that means most if not all trains will be 2-cars.

 

[H&I]

The Class 196s and 197s don't have level boarding with platforms at the standard UK platform height. Is there a reason why the opportunity for level boarding was missed?

 

[Energy]

The Class 196s and 197s don't have level boarding with platforms at the standard UK platform height. Is there a reason why the opportunity for level boarding was missed?

Just not specified. They could have gone for Stadler Flirts but TfWM or whatever they are called have been pushing for gangway door units.

 

[meld3]

The Class 196s and 197s don't have level boarding with platforms at the standard UK platform height. Is there a reason why the opportunity for level boarding was missed?

Which was noticed yesterday at Great Malvern when I had to physically lift an old gent down from 196005.
The height gap was simply unsafe, and I'm 6'4" but still had to jump.