WMR Class 196 Build and Implementation

[anamyd]

I attended the Annual WMT Stakeholder Conference yesterday where the MD announced that 196s will start running on the Shrewsbury services on next Monday 17th October.

Is that normal service, or some "invited guests" thing?

 

[Undiscovered]

Are those completed and in use now?

According to the latest Weekly Operational Notices, no.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 11 Oct 2022 ==

According to the latest Weekly Operational Notices, no.

Yes, a 4-car 196 is significantly bigger than a 2-car 170 (about double the size, funnily enough) but I'm talking about a single 4-car 196 replacing a train of two 2-car 170s, not "a 170".

Yes, you're quite correct.
We're used to having 2x170s on that stretch, so it's not unusual for us to just think in terms of a single unit as it's the bread and butter on that line.

To clarify:

A 2x170/5 fits into Albrighton on the down and the up.
Significant works have been undertaken to extend the platforms on both sides to ensure that a 4car 196 can be safely accommodated.

A 2x170/5 has never fit into bilbrook or oakengates- Selective Door Operation is required- hence their platforms being lengthened too.

 

[MaidaVale]

Is that normal service, or some "invited guests" thing?

Monday 17th will be in normal revenue-earning passenger service, The staff and invited guests preview service will be on Friday (14th).

I've heard a quote from a member of staff claiming the first 196 in service will be a '6.31 off shrewsbury' on the Monday, although as this service is non-existent, I assume they mean the 06.51 and it was a typo, although as of yet nothing is confirmed apart from the date.

 

[meld3]

Do we know which units are signed off for passenger use / Is it just 4-car units for the Shrewsbury runs ?

 

[43102EMR]

Do we know which units are signed off for passenger use / Is it just 4-car units for the Shrewsbury runs ?

Noted in a post above that all two cars now signed to WMT, just 4 four cars pending.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 12 Oct 2022 ==

Monday 17th will be in normal revenue-earning passenger service, The staff and invited guests preview service will be on Friday (14th).

I've heard a quote from a member of staff claiming the first 196 in service will be a '6.31 off shrewsbury' on the Monday, although as this service is non-existent, I assume they mean the 06.51 and it was a typo, although as of yet nothing is confirmed apart from the date.

Noted above the 06:51 off Shrewsbury will be the first service.

 

[Jacob Porrett]

Noted in a post above that all two cars now signed to WMT, just 4 four cars pending.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 12 Oct 2022 ==


Noted above the 06:51 off Shrewsbury will be the first service.

Do we have the diagrams for the Monday's service please? I would hopefully like to get on one and experience a 196 for the first time.

 

[Jacob Porrett]

'Mid October' is now launch date, with a soft launch for a few days.

1st diagram will be as follows (date unknown)
5G05 Tyseley - Shrewsbury
1G05 0651 Shrewsbury - New Street
2J06 0800 New Street - Shrewsbury
1G14 0911 Shrewsbury - New Street
5G14 New Street - Tyseley

All 12x 2car units signed off to WMT now, 4x 4car outstanding.

Will this be the diagrams for Monday 17th please? Will there just be the one 196 out or several 196s out?

 

[MaidaVale]

Will this be the diagrams for Monday 17th please? Will there just be the one 196 out or several 196s out?

Yeah these are for Monday 17th with 1G05 being the first 196 in passenger service at 0651 leaving Shrewsbury. I assume it'll only be the one as a 'soft-launch' for those morning services, but someone can correct me if wrong.

Also interested if it'll be 2x 2 car units or 1x 4 car unit.

 

[GWVillager]

Yeah these are for Monday 17th with 1G05 being the first 196 in passenger service at 0651 leaving Shrewsbury. I assume it'll only be the one as a 'soft-launch' for those morning services, but someone can correct me if wrong.

Also interested if it'll be 2x 2 car units or 1x 4 car unit.

2x 2 car I believe. I think WMR said that the 2 car sets would enter service first so I presume it'll be the former. A lot could have changed since then though.

 

[SCDR_WMR]

Will this be the diagrams for Monday 17th please? Will there just be the one 196 out or several 196s out?

My understanding is just the 1 (double set) out on the Monday, possibly more later in the week. 4-6 weeks until they're all out if all goes to plan

 

[FrodshamJnct]

Will this be the diagrams for Monday 17th please? Will there just be the one 196 out or several 196s out?

It’ll be the diagram, not diagram(s).

 

[D365]

The 196 introduction has, quite frankly, been a shambles from the beginning. Not only in terms of the introduction itself, but also how it has affected other parts of the network: EMR has been denied 170s that it desperately needs in order to address shortformed cancelled services; and in turn Northern has gone without the 156s that it needs.

Once the fleet has been introduced and bedded in, there must be some sort of inquiry in order to ensure that a such a farcical introduction can’t be allowed to happen again.

It is along with all the other delayed fleets pretty disgraceful even allowing for covid disruption. I've previously it to Huw Merriman chair of the transport select committee as something they should hold an enquiry over.

transcom@parliament.uk

you wont get an answer but maybe might make it onto a list of areas they might consider in future

The 196 story is a simple one, surely - the unions rejected DCO through every means possible.

 

[LowLevel]

The 196 story is a simple one, surely - the unions rejected DCO through every means possible.

With the side heading of unlike basically every other train on the network bar the 777s as built, whoever specified the trains not using their noodle and making them suitable for crew *or* driver only operation. Trying to force it by only specifying the trains for the latter backfired spectacularly.

There were plenty of other issues though I understand!

 

[SCDR_WMR]

With the side heading of unlike basically every other train on the network bar the 777s as built, whoever specified the trains not using their noodle and making them suitable for crew *or* driver only operation. Trying to force it by only specifying the trains for the latter backfired spectacularly.

There were plenty of other issues though I understand!

Indeed, the buck stops with the DfT as I believe they are the ones spec'd them. Certainly bankrolled the TOC through the industrial action.

Them and CAF were the main cause of delay, units incapable of completing fault free running for many months was rediculous.

 

[Undiscovered]

2x 2 car I believe. I think WMR said that the 2 car sets would enter service first so I presume it'll be the former. A lot could have changed since then though.

That'll be interesting as only the 4cars have been out on crew training runs and 2x2cars aren't scheduled to be working the Shrewsbury line at all.
Indeed, as far as I am aware, no 2x2s have been on or stopped at any of the stations on that line.

Either way, unless the platform extensions get signed off in time, which would need to be today? (Weds) to make the WON, passengers at certain stations will be very disappointed. Could be quite the day on Monday...

 

[SCDR_WMR]

That'll be interesting as only the 4cars have been out on crew training runs and 2x2cars aren't scheduled to be working the Shrewsbury line at all.
Indeed, as far as I am aware, no 2x2s have been on or stopped at any of the stations on that line.

Either way, unless the platform extensions get signed off in time, which would need to be today? (Weds) to make the WON, passengers at certain stations will be very disappointed. Could be quite the day on Monday...

Can it not just be posted into the late notice case prior to Monday? And then added to the next WON.
Does seem mad that the stations aren't signed off but they are desperate to soft launch the units

 

[Rhydgaled]

unless the platform extensions get signed off in time, which would need to be today? (Weds) to make the WON, passengers at certain stations will be very disappointed.

If it is only platform extensions (ie. no pointwork/signals need moving) then surely it comes down to whether the class 196s have Selective Door unlocking (SDO) - do they? They have end gangways so short platforms shouldn't be a problem for 2x2-car sets if SDO is available.

 

[Undiscovered]

Can it not just be posted into the late notice case prior to Monday? And then added to the next WON.
Does seem mad that the stations aren't signed off but they are desperate to soft launch the units

But that's not really what it's there for. Closing/altering platforms due to damage etc, yes.
Announcing completed extensions? I dunno. It's more for urgent items, not planned ones?

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 12 Oct 2022 ==

If it is only platform extensions (ie. no pointwork/signals need moving) then surely it comes down to whether the class 196s have Selective Door unlocking (SDO) - do they? They have end gangways so short platforms shouldn't be a problem for 2x2-car sets if SDO is available.

The 196s have no selective door operation. If you're not fully accommodated, you're not releasing the doors.

 

[Halish Railway]

The 196s have no selective door operation. If you're not fully accommodated, you're not releasing the doors.

Wha… What? Who specced these?

 

[Kite159]

The 196s have no selective door operation. If you're not fully accommodated, you're not releasing the doors.

Seriously? What a massive oversight.

What other train in the last 10 years has lacked some sort of SDO

 

[Rhydgaled]

The 196s have no selective door operation. If you're not fully accommodated, you're not releasing the doors.

Wha… What? Who specced these?

Thanks @Undiscovered for answering my question.

As to who specced these, the 196s seem to be really mixed bag of specification decisions:

• Failure to provide guard door controls - MISTAKE
• Unit End Gangways - GOOD - being considerate of passenger/staff convience
• Insisting on non-Fainsa seats - JUDGEMENT PENDING - we'll have to wait and see if the chosen seats are any better
• Failure to provide SDO - MISTAKE
• Reducing window size from the class 195/331 default to ensure window alignment with WMT's tighter seat pitch - GOOD attention to detail
• Diesel-only traction - VERY BAD DECISION

 

[py_megapixel]

The 196s have no selective door operation. If you're not fully accommodated, you're not releasing the doors.

I'm going to take this statement with a very large pinch of salt. Every other new design of unit in the last 10 years has been fitted with SDO, including the other CAF stock. On the 195s it appears to be little more than a software feature (there are no balises - it works out which station it is at by GPS) so it seems odd that they wouldn't have it, as I can't imagine the cost associated with it would be huge.

 

[SCDR_WMR]

I'm going to take this statement with a very large pinch of salt. Every other new design of unit in the last 10 years has been fitted with SDO, including the other CAF stock. On the 195s it appears to be little more than a software feature (there are no balises - it works out which station it is at by GPS) so it seems odd that they wouldn't have it, as I can't imagine the cost associated with it would be huge.

Seeing as we've now been told the 350s are having ASDO retrofitted, I can't imagine these units don't at least have SDO given WMT are used to using SDO on other traction. I'll message fleet and see what they say

 

[SuperLuke2334]

Seeing as we've now been told the 350s are having ASDO retrofitted, I can't imagine these units don't at least have SDO given WMT are used to using SDO on other traction. I'll message fleet and see what they say

I was talking to a driver at my local a few weeks ago and he said that the units do have SDO, but unlikely to be needed on the Hereford line as they'll probably only be running 4 car max.

 

[craigybagel]

I'm going to take this statement with a very large pinch of salt. Every other new design of unit in the last 10 years has been fitted with SDO, including the other CAF stock. On the 195s it appears to be little more than a software feature (there are no balises - it works out which station it is at by GPS) so it seems odd that they wouldn't have it, as I can't imagine the cost associated with it would be huge.

And you'd be right to do so - the units do have ASDO, the same as the 195s and 197s. However on WMR units it's been isolated.

 

[SuperLuke2334]

And you'd be right to do so - the units do have ASDO, the same as the 195s and 197s. However on WMR units it's been isolated.

That seems like an interesting decision, especially if the platforms haven't been signed off yet and SDO could be needed... maybe they'll regret that decision.

 

[newtownmgr]

The ASDO as fitted is designed to be worked by the driver releasing the doors. Obviously with the guards doing the doors a different method will be used. Not learnt the units yet so not taken much interest in them so far.

 

[Jacob Porrett]

Interesting to here that it could be a double set on Monday considering it has been the 4 car sets on the salop in recent weeks/months. I haven't seen a 2 car set for a month or two now. Has any two car sets run up and down the salop on test at all does anyone know please?

 

[Undiscovered]

Interesting to here that it could be a double set on Monday considering it has been the 4 car sets on the salop in recent weeks/months. I haven't seen a 2 car set for a month or two now. Has any two car sets run up and down the salop on test at all does anyone know please?

See above posts.

No will know exactly what is running until it arrives. No one will know exactly what stations its calling at, until it arrives. No one knows if it will arrive!

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

So (assuming they start public service on Mon 17th), WMT has beaten TfW to get its new Civitys into service.