WMR Class 196 Build and Implementation

[JonathanH]

Tender issued last week for financing of work at Tyseley to accommodate the 196s.

https://bidstats.uk/tenders/2022/W39/783811171

Description
The scope of work is for the Financing of depot construction works required to meet the long-term maintenance and stabling needs of new rolling stock at Tyseley Depot, Birmingham.

The financing arrangements for the above depot is being procured by West Midlands Trains on behalf of the Department for Transport and will cover a period of 35 years from commencement of the initial lease payment.

The financing arrangements for the above depot will have the facility to be assigned in the future to West Midlands Trains successor operator of the depot as required.

Total Quantity or Scope
The existing depot owned by Network Rail, is regulated by ORR and leased to WMT. The depot maintains the current WMT diesel fleet, as well as CrossCountry's diesel Class 170s. Circa £44m of depot works are required to accommodate the stabling and maintenance requirements of the new CAF diesel Class 196 fleet of which circa £20m is expected to have been expensed by 31 March 2023, leaving circa £24m to be funded from 1 April 2023 onwards. Additional information: Interested parties should contract the named person by email at Section I.1 to register interest and request the Prequalification Questionnaire which shall be required to be completed by the time limit for receipt of expressions of interest at Section IV.2.2

 

[ABB125]

Tender issued last week for financing of work at Tyseley to accommodate the 196s.

https://bidstats.uk/tenders/2022/W39/783811171

Shouldn't that work (whatever it may be) have been done before the fleet arrives? If not, why's it needed in the first place if the fleet can cope without it?

 

[SCDR_WMR]

I'm not sure what this relates to, works to fuel, stable and maintain these units was completed a while ago. Most work took place in 2020, so is this for the future costs of said operations now that the TOC is on a NRC so it's liable for additional costs?

Or does this mean it was built but not financed and now the bill is due?

 

[Jacob Porrett]

'Mid October' is now launch date, with a soft launch for a few days.

1st diagram will be as follows (date unknown)
5G05 Tyseley - Shrewsbury
1G05 0651 Shrewsbury - New Street
2J06 0800 New Street - Shrewsbury
1G14 0911 Shrewsbury - New Street
5G14 New Street - Tyseley

All 12x 2car units signed off to WMT now, 4x 4car outstanding.

Exciting times ahead now. I'm looking forward to trying them out after waiting so many years.

 

[Jacob Porrett]

A little harsh. Who would you ultimately blame for delays? WMT would happily have had them out on time an sent the 170s to EMR given they're both Abellio contracts.

COVID pandemic? After all, social distancing and lockdowns had a major impact.
ASLEF? Using COVID as an excuse to slow the process down
CAF? Units simply weren't fit for service on delivery and struggled to complete fault free running for months on end.
WMT? Deciding to use CAF for their units almost purely for their lower cost
DfT? Forcing WMT to order DOO units which needed retrospectively fitted door panels as no agreement was ever going to be signed off for such operation.

There does need to be questions asked, absolutely, and the whole process of commissioning through to entering service surely needs looking at. Not as if 196s are the first to suffer such delays, and won't be the last!

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 1 Oct 2022 ==


I think there will be some media on the official launch date whenever that is, but they seem to just want to introduce slowly incase any issues arise. I know there are adverts planned (video and posters), which were changed from the originals to focus more on what these new units offer

14th October I've been told for a staff/invited guest launch where there will be an opportunity to ask questions and a chance to ride a 196 from Wolverhampton to Shrewsbury and back again.

 

[Jacob Porrett]

Excellent news! Does the 'soft launch for a few days' mean that there will be a large launch event later on?


That had somehow escaped my thoughts for all this time - I'm not so enthusiastic about these trains now!

What will happen to the 12 car 2 car units because I haven't seen one for a good few months now? Will some be used on the Oxford line like there has been talk in the past. Will they be used on the Salop routes?

 

[warwickshire]

Monday 03rd October yesterday whilst doing the 170s for the final time myself ie 170 in the West Midlands before departure to East Midlands on the Shrewsbury line for a final nostalgic ride. Saw at least 196102 196107 and another 196. Not only that all 3 was out all day long. With both driver and guard training. Calling at Stations and stopping en route.
Plus Shrewsbury platform 5 saw guards doing ramp and door training and quite a few as well. Obviously have enough people trained up on them for when they start. But I expect once in service especially as we get into late October and early November 170s will gradually and be gradually gone by November timetable.

 

[SCDR_WMR]

Monday 03rd October yesterday whilst doing the 170s for the final time myself ie 170 in the West Midlands before departure to East Midlands on the Shrewsbury line for a final nostalgic ride. Saw at least 196102 196107 and another 196. Not only that all 3 was out all day long. With both driver and guard training. Calling at Stations and stopping en route.
Plus Shrewsbury platform 5 saw guards doing ramp and door training and quite a few as well. Obviously have enough people trained up on them for when they start. But I expect once in service especially as we get into late October and early November 170s will gradually and be gradually gone by November timetable.

I believe that's the plan, soft launch with that one diagram per day, adding more each week until all the units are in use. End of November is what I was thinking for last 170s

 

[Sprinter107]

I believe that's the plan, soft launch with that one diagram per day, adding more each week until all the units are in use. End of November is what I was thinking for last 170s

Theres still the diagrams for 170s on the Hereford line. They will still be running by November.

 

[Chris172]

Theres still the diagrams for 170s on the Hereford line. They will still be running by November.

Probably be ran with 172s instead

 

[Sprinter107]

Probably be ran with 172s instead

Don't think there are enough. If there were, they'd be on there now.

 

[Nicholas Lewis]

The 196 introduction has, quite frankly, been a shambles from the beginning. Not only in terms of the introduction itself, but also how it has affected other parts of the network: EMR has been denied 170s that it desperately needs in order to address shortformed cancelled services; and in turn Northern has gone without the 156s that it needs.

Once the fleet has been introduced and bedded in, there must be some sort of inquiry in order to ensure that a such a farcical introduction can’t be allowed to happen again.

It is along with all the other delayed fleets pretty disgraceful even allowing for covid disruption. I've previously it to Huw Merriman chair of the transport select committee as something they should hold an enquiry over.

transcom@parliament.uk

you wont get an answer but maybe might make it onto a list of areas they might consider in future

 

[Undiscovered]

Monday 03rd October yesterday whilst doing the 170s for the final time myself ie 170 in the West Midlands before departure to East Midlands on the Shrewsbury line for a final nostalgic ride. Saw at least 196102 196107 and another 196. Not only that all 3 was out all day long. With both driver and guard training. Calling at Stations and stopping en route.
Plus Shrewsbury platform 5 saw guards doing ramp and door training and quite a few as well. Obviously have enough people trained up on them for when they start. But I expect once in service especially as we get into late October and early November 170s will gradually and be gradually gone by November timetable.

196 110 was the other unit yesterday.
No units to be stabled in Salop now and no further runnings from the depot either.

 

[43055]

Monday 03rd October yesterday whilst doing the 170s for the final time myself ie 170 in the West Midlands before departure to East Midlands on the Shrewsbury line for a final nostalgic ride. Saw at least 196102 196107 and another 196. Not only that all 3 was out all day long. With both driver and guard training. Calling at Stations and stopping en route.
Plus Shrewsbury platform 5 saw guards doing ramp and door training and quite a few as well. Obviously have enough people trained up on them for when they start. But I expect once in service especially as we get into late October and early November 170s will gradually and be gradually gone by November timetable.

Hopefully EMR will gain some more 170's then if the Shrewsbury route will be fully 196 by November.

 

[SCDR_WMR]

Theres still the diagrams for 170s on the Hereford line. They will still be running by November.

I mean the ones from the Shrewsbury work, not all. The Hereford's will be during April if memory serves me right

 

[Techniquest]

I mean the ones from the Shrewsbury work, not all. The Hereford's will be during April if memory serves me right

Just to be clear, because it's late evening and my brain's not working too well tonight (it's distracted by other potential events), you're talking about when the last non-196 trains are removed from the relevant routes? Or have I misunderstood?

It seems crazy to think that I will soon be wanting a farewell ride on a 170 before they leave the West Midlands! Same, for that matter, on a 172 on my local route before they head off to other routes, I've got used to having them now!

 

[SCDR_WMR]

Just to be clear, because it's late evening and my brain's not working too well tonight (it's distracted by other potential events), you're talking about when the last non-196 trains are removed from the relevant routes? Or have I misunderstood?

It seems crazy to think that I will soon be wanting a farewell ride on a 170 before they leave the West Midlands! Same, for that matter, on a 172 on my local route before they head off to other routes, I've got used to having them now!

I just mean there will be no 170s on the Shrewsbury line come end of November. There will be plenty on the Hereford line for another 6 months. Hopefully some of those units will go straight onto their next TOC very soon though

 

[newtownmgr]

I just mean there will be no 170s on the Shrewsbury line come end of November. There will be plenty on the Hereford line for another 6 months. Hopefully some of those units will go straight onto their next TOC very soon though

We’ve got 3 x 170 booked off Worcester depot daily. Believe that will remain the case until the 196’s start to be introduced

 

[Techniquest]

I just mean there will be no 170s on the Shrewsbury line come end of November. There will be plenty on the Hereford line for another 6 months. Hopefully some of those units will go straight onto their next TOC very soon though

Thanks, that's what I was assuming but wanted to make sure I hadn't got it wrong. I think a WMDR may be in the pipeline soon!

 

[SCDR_WMR]

We’ve got 3 x 170 booked off Worcester depot daily. Believe that will remain the case until the 196’s start to be introduced

Yeah that won't change for a while yet. April is what it's seen for start of introduction down at Shrub Hill, you heard any different?

 

[newtownmgr]

Yeah that won't change for a while yet. April is what it's seen for start of introduction down at Shrub Hill, you heard any different?

Start training later this month/next month. Introduction by April 23. Obviously not sure whether it will be a gradual introduction or not. Units will be working off Worcester from the start & not Tyseley unlike the Shrewsbury introduction due to only Worcester working the Hereford - New St services.

 

[Jacob Porrett]

196 110 was the other unit yesterday.
No units to be stabled in Salop now and no further runnings from the depot either.

Why is that?

 

[Peter Sarf]

Just to be clear, because it's late evening and my brain's not working too well tonight (it's distracted by other potential events), you're talking about when the last non-196 trains are removed from the relevant routes? Or have I misunderstood?

It seems crazy to think that I will soon be wanting a farewell ride on a 170 before they leave the West Midlands! Same, for that matter, on a 172 on my local route before they head off to other routes, I've got used to having them now!

This really could be posted in the "You know you are getting old when" thread .

 

[Techniquest]

This really could be posted in the "You know you are getting old when" thread .

Yes indeed! I think the numbers of my age should be the other way around sometimes I've not even hit the 40s yet, so I dread to think what I'll be like when I get past that!

I should add I had only finished work and got back from that around 22:15 last night, so the brain was hardly in the gear it needed to be!

As for 196s, training starting soon for the Worcester team, wow the beginning of the new era really is about to begin!

 

[Peter Sarf]

Yes indeed! I think the numbers of my age should be the other way around sometimes I've not even hit the 40s yet, so I dread to think what I'll be like when I get past that!

I should add I had only finished work and got back from that around 22:15 last night, so the brain was hardly in the gear it needed to be!

As for 196s, training starting soon for the Worcester team, wow the beginning of the new era really is about to begin!

I have to pinch myself - the log jam for a few new fleets could well be shifting.

 

[Techniquest]

I have to pinch myself - the log jam for a few new fleets could well be shifting.

Quite. There's something to be excited about again, and I'm sure I read the 197s will soon enter service too. I'll soon have a good excuse to get my spotters book out again

 

[SCDR_WMR]

Start training later this month/next month. Introduction by April 23. Obviously not sure whether it will be a gradual introduction or not. Units will be working off Worcester from the start & not Tyseley unlike the Shrewsbury introduction due to only Worcester working the Hereford - New St services.

Is there much work left to do on the old sidings/shed to accept the units? Sure the fuelling area must be finished by now. Haven't been down there for a good 18 months now.

 

[QSK19]

I have to pinch myself - the log jam for a few new fleets could well be shifting.

And cascaded ones too (un)fortunately: two lots of 170s gradually going over to EMR - hopefully not too knackered given that, knowing its bad luck, the DfT probably won’t authorise any worthwhile refurbishment. Northern will get their much-looked-forward-to 156s too

Anyway, back OT, I really do hope that the 196s live up to the hype. I may venture across to the west side to do a bit of “train tourism” with my kids if the RF consensus is that they’re decent enough trains - won’t bother if they’re rubbish.

 

[Peter Sarf]

And cascaded ones too (un)fortunately: two lots of 170s gradually going over to EMR - hopefully not too knackered given that, knowing its bad luck, the DfT probably won’t authorise any worthwhile refurbishment. Northern will get their much-looked-forward-to 156s too

Anyway, back OT, I really do hope that the 196s live up to the hype. I may venture across to the west side to do a bit of “train tourism” with my kids if the RF consensus is that they’re decent enough trains - won’t bother if they’re rubbish.

I travelled Manchester to Leeds via Bradford a few months back on a 195 and it was nice enough. So I don't expect the 196s to be a bad thing.

 

[Techniquest]

Based on my longest ride on a similar class, the 331s, from Preston to Manchester, in October 2020 and on numerous but shorter rides on 195s, I don't expect there to be any issues with 196s.

In any case, it could be very subjective so @QSK19 would be better off making their own adventure to find out for themselves.