WMR Class 196 Build and Implementation

[Jacob Porrett]

That will be covered by 172s once all the 170s have gone and before 196s enter service.

Ah right ok.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 22 Feb 2022 ==

Hereford line won't be before the Summer, initial units are for Shrewsbury line. Worcester drivers have been involved in getting mileage in for the units though so hopefully there's enough units to filter out to Hereford line soon after

I know the Shrewsbury line is first but eventually the Herefords will get them afterwards.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 22 Feb 2022 ==

Thought it was the Shrewsbury first to release the remaining 170s to EMR?

i imagine the Hereford 170 diagram would follow around the same time when their enough 196s.

Yes it is and then Hereford afterwards.

 

[Wyrleybart]

Latest from fleet is that 1 unit has just had it's door panels fitted with 2 more in progress.
The rest are to follow whilst training takes place.

Train crew training has been agreed and will start soon.

Units to enter service in May

I am deducing that the class 196s were designed and built without door control panels for the guards based on the above. So it is probably safe to assume that the door control panels are a variation from the original CAF order.

Just wundrin who is paying for this probably rather expensive contract variation.
Were the DfT expecting WMR to be a DCO operation ?

 

[Techniquest]

Only a quick post from me to say I had a quick glimpse at 196107 yesterday, when I saw it parked up in Worcester. I have to say, I liked what I saw and I'm more keen now than before to get on one and give them a try!

They look to have a front end that's screaming out for a class nickname

 

[Neptune]

They look to have a front end that's screaming out for a class nickname

Civity

 

[wobman]

Civity

The tfw 197's are getting called stormtroopers by some

 

[SCDR_WMR]

I am deducing that the class 196s were designed and built without door control panels for the guards based on the above. So it is probably safe to assume that the door control panels are a variation from the original CAF order.

Just wundrin who is paying for this probably rather expensive contract variation.
Were the DfT expecting WMR to be a DCO operation ?

They were ordered minus door controls yes, as per DfT requirements really seeing as they made sure of external body cams etc.

As for who's paid for it to be added, I'm not sure. Given the franchise has been handed back, I'd say DfT.

DfT funded the franchise through industrial action, so pretty safe to assume they want DOO on these lines. Thankfully won't be happening for a while with new units being conductor operated

 

[Jacob Porrett]

Civity

Someone calls the 196 orange monsters...

 

[Techniquest]

The tfw 197's are getting called stormtroopers by some

700s have been called that for some time, so while I agree with the 197s resembling a Stormtrooper we can't have two classes with the same nickname! Imagine the confusion

Someone calls the 196 orange monsters...

Now you've said that, I can only picture Monster Munch's purple packets!

Perhaps we will all find a natural nickname for the class when they enter service.

The 197s however, I'm sure Cavity was suggested many moons ago...

 

[wobman]

700s have been called that for some time, so while I agree with the 197s resembling a Stormtrooper we can't have two classes with the same nickname! Imagine the confusion



Now you've said that, I can only picture Monster Munch's purple packets!

Perhaps we will all find a natural nickname for the class when they enter service.

The 197s however, I'm sure Cavity was suggested many moons ago...

But 700s and 197s won't be seen in thr same places, they could be the Welsh stormtroopers

 

[LOL The Irony]

I've created a thread to discuss nicknames for the Civitys

Nicknames for the Civitys

Since it's being talked about a lot, I've decided to make this thread to discuss potential nicknames for the new Civitys. Here are a few proposals: 195s & 331s - Seats (the car) 397s - Wasps 197s - Mohawks

www.railforums.co.uk

 

[172007]

I am deducing that the class 196s were designed and built without door control panels for the guards based on the above. So it is probably safe to assume that the door control panels are a variation from the original CAF order.

Just wundrin who is paying for this probably rather expensive contract variation.
Were the DfT expecting WMR to be a DCO operation ?

Yes the it would appear that someone was expecting DCO operation. Don't forget the 172's except /1's have had DCO equipment installed over the the last 2 half years (bodyside cameras, ASDO and monitors in the cabs).

 

[SCDR_WMR]

Yes the it would appear that someone was expecting DCO operation. Don't forget the 172's except /1's have had DCO equipment installed over the the last 2 half years (bodyside cameras, ASDO and monitors in the cabs).

Yes, this was a requirement by the DfT. I think it's now the defacto standard than any midlife refresh and new traction are required to have such things

 

[Jacob Porrett]

700s have been called that for some time, so while I agree with the 197s resembling a Stormtrooper we can't have two classes with the same nickname! Imagine the confusion



Now you've said that, I can only picture Monster Munch's purple packets!

Perhaps we will all find a natural nickname for the class when they enter service.

The 197s however, I'm sure Cavity was suggested many moons ago...

Hahaha

 

[Wyrleybart]

Yes, this was a requirement by the DfT. I think it's now the defacto standard than any midlife refresh and new traction are required to have such things

Thanks - also to "172007". I didn't know that. So they are fitting DCO equipment "midlife" but "forgetting" to order it as a factory fit on brand new stock. Then presumably the taxpayer funds the variation to the CAF contract.

Amazing

 

[craigybagel]

Thanks - also to "172007". I didn't know that. So they are fitting DCO equipment "midlife" but "forgetting" to order it as a factory fit on brand new stock. Then presumably the taxpayer funds the variation to the CAF contract.

Amazing

I'm not aware of any stock getting DCO (or let's be honest here, DOO since that's all it really is) equipment midlife other than the 172s. Certain other stock (16x, 769 at GWR) is getting it fitted at present but these units are already DOO capable, it's just now they'll be able to do so without requiring platform equipment.

In any case there was no "forgetting" to fit DCO equipment with the 196s - the problem was that was the only equipment fitted; there was no contingency for conventional DGO operation. Now that WMR have agreed that that is how the units will be worked, the modifications are required.

Specifying a unit as only capable of being worked DCO before actually gaining agreement with the unions (and presumably knowing that that would never be an easy task) for DCO to take place seems to be what has gone wrong here.

 

[LowLevel]

Thanks - also to "172007". I didn't know that. So they are fitting DCO equipment "midlife" but "forgetting" to order it as a factory fit on brand new stock. Then presumably the taxpayer funds the variation to the CAF contract.

Amazing

It's the opposite issue. The trains have DOO equipment fitted (though whether it will work is perhaps another matter given CAF's record!) - they didn't come with guard's door controls fitted and that is what is being retrofitted.

Originally the TOC wanted DCO with guards remaining on board but drivers undertaking dispatch. Then they agreed to end the dispute driver open/guard close. Now with the training backlog they've decided to stick with full guard open/close operation to avoid any further delays in introducing the train due to a new method of operation.

 

[SCDR_WMR]

It's the opposite issue. The trains have DOO equipment fitted (though whether it will work is perhaps another matter given CAF's record!) - they didn't come with guard's door controls fitted and that is what is being retrofitted.

Originally the TOC wanted DCO with guards remaining on board but drivers undertaking dispatch. Then they agreed to end the dispute driver open/guard close. Now with the training backlog they've decided to stick with full guard open/close operation to avoid any further delays in introducing the train due to a new method of operation.

It was never agreed that it would be driver open/guard close!

That is what WMT offered, it was rejected and then ammended to guard open/close which was signed by all parties.

WMT later renegged on this agreement, finally agreeing to put the panels in not that long ago. It has nothing to do with training backlogs.

 

[Jacob Porrett]

196109 has now gone for storage at Long Marston. 57312 has took it there today from Tyseley LMD.

 

[warwickshire]

196109 has now gone for storage at Long Marston. 57312 has took it there today from Tyseley LMD.

Observed on time at evesham with 5 barrier Van's also in the convoy with 196108 already at long marston.
With another move booked tommorow.
57312 and Van's return tonight to tyseley lmd.
Maybe the other move by slc operations was a one off with rail operations group doing the rest.

 

[Jacob Porrett]

Observed on time at evesham with 5 barrier Van's also in the convoy with 196108 already at long marston.
With another move booked tommorow.
57312 and Van's return tonight to tyseley lmd.
Maybe the other move by slc operations was a one off with rail operations group doing the rest.

Maybe it was? Not sure. Maybe down to availability at the time? Will it be another 4 car tomorrow or a 2 car this time?

 

[warwickshire]

Maybe it was? Not sure. Maybe down to availability at the time? Will it be another 4 car tomorrow or a 2 car this time?

Don't know. No one does until the move occurs. Same here not sure on what is being moved.
However 57312 and Van's are back at tyseley lmd Depot for tommorows move. It is booked to run Tuesday and Wednesday this week. Also 5 Van's in total.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 1 Mar 2022 ==

Wednesday 02nd march 2022. www.realtimetrains.co.uk 1134 tyseley L.M.D to long marston another booked 196 move for storage. However the return working from long marston goes back to derby rtc network rail. On the 1758 long marston to derby rtc network rail.
So most certainly another move tommorow.
Interesting again ie two or four car.
However these moves need Van's. Whereas a recent move from donnington rft to tyseley worked under their own power.
So x3 at least 196 in store at long marston by tommorow afternoon.

 

[Jacob Porrett]

Don't know. No one does until the move occurs. Same here not sure on what is being moved.
However 57312 and Van's are back at tyseley lmd Depot for tommorows move. It is booked to run Tuesday and Wednesday this week. Also 5 Van's in total.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 1 Mar 2022 ==

Wednesday 02nd march 2022. www.realtimetrains.co.uk 1134 tyseley L.M.D to long marston another booked 196 move for storage. However the return working from long marston goes back to derby rtc network rail. On the 1758 long marston to derby rtc network rail.
So most certainly another move tommorow.
Interesting again ie two or four car.
However these moves need Van's. Whereas a recent move from donnington rft to tyseley worked under their own power.
So x3 at least 196 in store at long marston by tommorow afternoon.

The last move from Donnington RFT was 2x 196/0 so 2x two cars. 196 111 and 196002 the only 196s left at Donnington RFT now. The others are an assortments of 197s and some flatbeds that are out of action. (Been stored there for quite some time now).

 

[ls2270]

This morning’s 5Q94 1134 Tyseley Depot to Long Marston is 57312 hauling 196106 and barrier vehicles.

 

[Jacob Porrett]

This morning’s 5Q94 1134 Tyseley Depot to Long Marston is 57312 hauling 196106 and barrier vehicles.

That's great. Thank you for the information

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 2 Mar 2022 ==

Realtime Trains | 507T 0547 Derby R.T.C.(Network Rail) to Donnington Rft | 03/03/2022

Real-time train running information for 507T 0547 departure from Derby R.T.C.(Network Rail) to Donnington Rft on 03/03/2022. From Realtime Trains, an independent source of train running info for Great Britain.

www.realtimetrains.co.uk

Realtime Trains | 520T 1026 Donnington Rft to Tyseley L.M.D. | 03/03/2022

Real-time train running information for 520T 1026 departure from Donnington Rft to Tyseley L.M.D. on 03/03/2022. From Realtime Trains, an independent source of train running info for Great Britain.

www.realtimetrains.co.uk

Realtime Trains | 527T 1431 Tyseley L.M.D. to Derby R.T.C.(Network Rail) | 03/03/2022

Real-time train running information for 527T 1431 departure from Tyseley L.M.D. to Derby R.T.C.(Network Rail) on 03/03/2022. From Realtime Trains, an independent source of train running info for Great Britain.

www.realtimetrains.co.uk

196 drag tomorrow morning.

 

[warwickshire]

This morning’s 5Q94 1134 Tyseley Depot to Long Marston is 57312 hauling 196106 and barrier vehicles.

Confirmed 24 late at barnt green with 57312 196106 and five barrier vehicles. However these return to derby rtc later.

 

[Jacob Porrett]

That's great. Thank you for the information

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 2 Mar 2022 ==

Realtime Trains | 507T 0547 Derby R.T.C.(Network Rail) to Donnington Rft | 03/03/2022

Real-time train running information for 507T 0547 departure from Derby R.T.C.(Network Rail) to Donnington Rft on 03/03/2022. From Realtime Trains, an independent source of train running info for Great Britain.

www.realtimetrains.co.uk

Realtime Trains | 520T 1026 Donnington Rft to Tyseley L.M.D. | 03/03/2022

Real-time train running information for 520T 1026 departure from Donnington Rft to Tyseley L.M.D. on 03/03/2022. From Realtime Trains, an independent source of train running info for Great Britain.

www.realtimetrains.co.uk

Realtime Trains | 527T 1431 Tyseley L.M.D. to Derby R.T.C.(Network Rail) | 03/03/2022

Real-time train running information for 527T 1431 departure from Tyseley L.M.D. to Derby R.T.C.(Network Rail) on 03/03/2022. From Realtime Trains, an independent source of train running info for Great Britain.

www.realtimetrains.co.uk

196 drag tomorrow morning.

This move has been cancelled for tomorrow. Probably because storage issues and the 196s need guard panels to continue driver/crew training.

 

[SCDR_WMR]

Train crew training to commence 28th March, not long to wait now! Interesting to hear that training will be offered as RDW so there's a push to not allow it to affect current services

 

[SuperLuke2334]

Train crew training to commence 28th March, not long to wait now! Interesting to hear that training will be offered as RDW so there's a push to not allow it to affect current services

This is great to hear!

 

[Jacob Porrett]

Train crew training to commence 28th March, not long to wait now! Interesting to hear that training will be offered as RDW so there's a push to not allow it to affect current services

Some good news at last.

 

[ls2270]

196111 being hauled from Telford Freight Terminal to Tyseley this morning as 5Q66 at 1026.