Not knowing this part of the country at all, it wasn't until I looked on RTT that I realised it's only supposed to be 20 minutes between the first two stops. It's precisely times like this that a lack of information will lead to tempers flaring, especially when coupled with crowded conditions and people wanting to get home.
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Wires down at Luton (8/11/16)
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Not knowing this part of the country at all, it wasn't until I looked on RTT that I realised it's only supposed to be 20 minutes between the first two stops. It's precisely times like this that a lack of information will lead to tempers flaring, especially when coupled with crowded conditions and people wanting to get home.
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bb21
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I actually stayed at work for longer than I needed to today as I wanted to "wait it out" so to speak through the worst of the peaks.
Left just too late to make the 2057 (as it were, announced as hourly at xx57), took decisive action to head to Euston for the 2107, anticipating huge crowds at St Pancras.
Changed at Nuneaton and got back promptly before half 11, despite a 40 minute wait there (and nipping off to Asda as a result). The Pendo was less than a third full, although I did run into a quite nasty gateline staff at Euston which meant I nearly missed the train.
Glad I travelled that way now, as it looks like all the EMT's that made it through incurred massive delays. 1955 made it to Leicester at 2250, 2055 arrived at 0015, and the 2200, well, not here yet. Thank goodness I did not stick to st Pancras tonight.
Freezing cold too.
Left just too late to make the 2057 (as it were, announced as hourly at xx57), took decisive action to head to Euston for the 2107, anticipating huge crowds at St Pancras.
Changed at Nuneaton and got back promptly before half 11, despite a 40 minute wait there (and nipping off to Asda as a result). The Pendo was less than a third full, although I did run into a quite nasty gateline staff at Euston which meant I nearly missed the train.
Glad I travelled that way now, as it looks like all the EMT's that made it through incurred massive delays. 1955 made it to Leicester at 2250, 2055 arrived at 0015, and the 2200, well, not here yet. Thank goodness I did not stick to st Pancras tonight.
Freezing cold too.
jamesontheroad
Established Member
That's us. Just departed Leagrave now (01:10). Supposedly returning to normal line speed north of here.
Class377/5
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Cheap shot aside, if the GN link/London Bridge was open the issues would have been far more limited and easy to manage with an outlet so some trains that were cancelled could have run.
bramling
Veteran Member
Having seen some of the crowding levels today, the chaos which will occur on core platforms during similar disruption with competing groups of passengers waiting for services will simply be unmanageable.
Class377/5
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Completely disagree. But then I'm comparing what is possible based in facts.
Well we won't have to wait too long too see what happens for real.
Failed Unit
Established Member
But GTR clearly don't have a plan b. As others have stated FCC would have done something to get people over from Great Northern. The taxis in WGC / Hatfield did very well last night. For interest are you defending GTR management or the programme as I know there is a difference. But we have had 2 incidents on successive days wiping out the service. I can only comment as a user of Finsbury Park at the moment, turning there will end badly. The platforms are congested enough with the normal flow.
I did notice last night east coast were full and standing at kings cross. I guess taking Nottingham and Sheffield passengers home. I bet the EMT service from Grantham was cosy.
For interest would Leicester passengers tend to use Euston or go via Peterborough likewise would Chesterfield go via Birmingham or Grantham?
Sitting at St Pancras on a northbound all stations to Bedford - the first to run for several hours. Been here for 20 minutes and the driver has just announced a door problem - it's a 700! We are on the southbound platform and another empty 700 has just pulled into the northbound platform so it looks like they are turning round at St Pancras. No sign of any incoming commuters from the north.
DarloRich
Veteran Member
it is in theory but the branch service is limited and there is a big gap in service from Bletchley between 18:30 to 20:01
Class377/5
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The programme. Problem is comparing today with 2018 isn't comparing like for like. I truly believe that come 2018 with a robustly resourced service that it can cope with issues far better than today. Every time I look into it (and show others the working out) it's all possible. Just today we don't have the full range of stuff that we will do.
Failed Unit
Established Member
Will they be able to test the plans? As an example you could say it will take 3 minutes to empty a 12 car class 700 train and it will be turned around in 7. All feasible until customers unfamiliar with what they need to do get involved.
Deepgreen
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Many, many things are possible, but that doesn't mean they happen.
QueensCurve
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A question arises on the segregation between the control/instrumentation and the power cables.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
Where is the route from Northampton to Market Harbrough when you need it??
AndyY
Member
I could not get into work today. The few trains that were running were completely packed. Much as I do not like GTR, this time the problem is nothing to do with them and I think actually they are doing quite well to run a service despite all this.
Does anybody know why this line suffers so many overhead power supply problems? It is at least a few times a year as far as I know.
If you look at the recent disruptions, none of them were caused by the Thameslink project (2 weeks ago: weekend engineering works overran, 2 days ago: a nutter got on the track and started rapping, yesterday: overhead power supply, today: signalling).
Is there any reason why things may be better with Thameslink and completion of works in London Bridge (e.g. trains can be diverted, etc.)?
Because with things as they are, I can only see things getting much worse with 24tph if something similar happens.
Does anybody know why this line suffers so many overhead power supply problems? It is at least a few times a year as far as I know.
If you look at the recent disruptions, none of them were caused by the Thameslink project (2 weeks ago: weekend engineering works overran, 2 days ago: a nutter got on the track and started rapping, yesterday: overhead power supply, today: signalling).
Is there any reason why things may be better with Thameslink and completion of works in London Bridge (e.g. trains can be diverted, etc.)?
Because with things as they are, I can only see things getting much worse with 24tph if something similar happens.
asylumxl
Established Member
It's a concern that has been raised again and again, yet falls on deaf ears.
I suppose it makes sense, they want to free up capacity in KGX. They're going to steamroller ahead with it, irrelevant of whether it's a good idea.
And it's also very slow - taking about 50 mins to cover Bedford - Bletchley.
Whereas a direct coach (if rail replacement) between Northampton and Wellingborough should only take about 30 mins - Stagecoach's X4 which also serves Earls Barton etc en route is timed to take 40 mins to cover it so a direct coach along the A45 and heading straight to Wellingborough station will easily take 10 mins off that.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
Where is the route from Northampton to Market Harbrough when you need it??
Would have made bugger all difference to most journeys.
No use at all to anyone south of Leicester - and the majority of affected travellers would have been on the Thameslink services heading to St Albans, Luton and Bedford.
For people on EMT heading to Leicester and points north there were easements in place allowing travel via WCML - Nuneaton, Tamworth and Stoke or ECML to Peterborough, Grantham, Newark and Doncaster etc.
DarloRich
Veteran Member
Depending the time of day it should be offered as one of a suite of options but isnt.
fusionblue
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The apps was showing no Sevenoaks services from 8 ish-PM to the close of last night (although SET sometimes divert some trains to compensate), and this morning there was only one london bound train from 0730-0900.
Looking at the app again shows nothing for the next 2 hours either.
Looking at the app again shows nothing for the next 2 hours either.
There aren't credible alternative routes home...
Anyways....Left slightly earlier than usual (I think that was a good thing). The 23.14 leaving Blackfriars was waiting on a driver and didn't leave for 15 minutes so I managed to grab that.
Through the core was relatively quick. It was from Kentish Town onwards there were 30 min or so waits at each station. We were repeatedly told there was a queue of trains ahead of us (but that is a little hard to believe when you know there hadn't been a departure for an hour). I've not got the dwell times at each station, but we were told to change trains at St Albans when we got there about 2 - 2.30. I decamped at Luton Airport Parkway and got a taxi home to Leagrave. I think the train was probably quickly once it was in the damaged zone, but I wasn't risking it.
Taxis from London or even St Albans are hugely expensive unfortunately. There were rumours of bus service at St. A, but I don't think anyone believed it and it wasn't mentioned once we arrived. Loads of KT - St A. passengers decamped in the first hour or so for taxis. Those of us north of St A were sticking it out (again, sheer cost).
GTR were pretty bad at providing information - on the train and at stations. The drivers tried but only comms was signallers.
As a passenger, the real problems seems to have been a combination of Network Rail and GTR. I'm not sure why there wasn't a plan - or make it up at the time - that saw the service split at St A. Like 4 trains an hour from St P to St A - to get the volume of passengers moved. Then 2 trains an hour from St A to Bedford so we could actually get home which would have been compatible with only 1 train at a time.
Rightly or wrongly I didn't get an EMT. There was apparently an hour wait for the next one (overnight services don't really exist) and I assumed they'd be in the same q of trains anyway. Equally, I didn't go for an alternative line - no real overnight service and zero faith in bus/taxi availability (or cost). Once you're above St Albans there is no credible public transport between lines.
For obvious reasons, I'm working from home today...
In terms of vaguely credible alternatives routes - tho I'm scraping the barrel - the commuter coaches don't run outside commuter hours. There are some to and from Victoria - but the journey either end adds to the travel time so in most circumstances doesn't help.
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Deepgreen
Established Member
This certainly seems to have been something approaching a 'perfect storm', with OHLE and signal cabling interacting to take the whole system down. Today's issue seems to be the signalling failure at Luton, leading on from the power supply failure of yesterday.
Because the overhead equipment used on that line is a particular cocktail of rubbish. A tendency for it to fail more frequently than other designs + the fact that when it does fail, it'll usually take out all of the lines next to it as well, stopping the entire railway, instead of just one or two tracks.
I *think* that St Pancras to Bedford, and Kings Cross to Peterborough (at the least) were going to be fitted with upgraded kit, BEDPAN as part of the MML electrification (assuming that still goes ahead!) and Kings Cross - Peterborough as part of the upgrades to 140mph running for the IEPs (again, assuming that is still on the cards)
Failed Unit
Established Member
Me thinks London Bridge all over again. Works fine in theory but in practice...
Tomglomerate
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Does anyone know why they aren't running through the core or adding more St Albans terminators? As an outsider I would expect the Sutton services to be able to continue through the core and reverse at St Albans (thus adding at least another 2ph). I guess it's a bit trickier if they don't want to rejoin Bedford and Brighton just yet.
ChiefPlanner
Established Member
St Albans can only reliably turn 4 tph in the turnback , there are only 3 paths available between Harpenden and Leagrave , and the capacity is thus very limited indeed.
You might have been able to slip a few trains around at Harpenden ..but there is temporary block working between there and Leagrave through Luton.
Traincrew are largely based at Bedford - so options are thus very limited......
It seems a signalling cable dropped into contact with the OHLE and thus the signalling got blasted with 25 kV which killed it - not a quick fix!
fusionblue
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I don't understand why sevenoaks services are being diverted to victoria rather up to blackfriars, though.
Are the bays even being used?
Are the bays even being used?
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Yes, I know, but a) signalling cables do not come into contact with 25kV without 'external interference' and b) even if they do there are lots of protection fuses and other devices designed to stop the damage that has occurred. Which is extensive.
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