Winter Timetable

[voyagerdude220]

Hi all,

I've just been doing a few random searches online, using East Coast's timetable function, to see if I can see any noticeable changes.

Answer: Not yet However..

I can't find any Virgin service running between Wrexham and Euston anymore- has it been axed?

Also appears to be another Virgin Super Voyager service no longer running- no sign of a Lancaster to Euston service departing around 05:35. This means Lancaster is without an arrival into London before 09:00, and Preston has almost 90 mins between the first and second London trains departing.

The best find yet though is an Arriva Trains Wales direct service between Birmingham N St and Manchester Picc, via Wolves, Shrewsbury, Wrexham, Chester and Warrington Bank Quay.. (21:24 arriving 00:28)

Does anyone know when I'll be able to see a copy of a VT winter timetable, which includes weekend diversions over the S&C line? I've heard they're running between 2nd April and 15th May.

 

[MidnightFlyer]

Hi all,

I've just been doing a few random searches online, using East Coast's timetable function, to see if I can see any noticeable changes.

Answer: Not yet However..

I can't find any Virgin service running between Wrexham and Euston anymore- has it been axed?

Also appears to be another Virgin Super Voyager service no longer running- no sign of a Lancaster to Euston service departing around 05:35. This means Lancaster is without an arrival into London before 09:00, and Preston has almost 90 mins between the first and second London trains departing.

The best find yet though is an Arriva Trains Wales direct service between Birmingham N St and Manchester Picc, via Wolves, Shrewsbury, Wrexham, Chester and Warrington Bank Quay.. (21:24 arriving 00:28)

Does anyone know when I'll be able to see a copy of a VT winter timetable, which includes weekend diversions over the S&C line? I've heard they're running between 2nd April and 15th May.

If you look back to page 3 or so in here, you will see about 4 Threads on changes - there's one I posted earlier today about Northern and ATW changes. All timetables for all TOCs are generally bavailable 28 dyas before usage (so mid-November). Can't wait Atherton on Sunday is being continued, and there is 4 WSMR to Marylebone ex-Wrexham daily

 

[voyagerdude220]

Ah right thanks, I never noticed

 

[MidnightFlyer]

http://www.railforums.co.uk/showthread.php?t=37066 - Northern & ATW
http://www.railforums.co.uk/showthread.php?t=36727 - Southern
http://www.railforums.co.uk/showthread.php?t=35964 - Little bit on Airdrie-Bathgate etc

 

[merlodlliw]

Hi all,

I've just been doing a few random searches online, using East Coast's timetable function, to see if I can see any noticeable changes.

Answer: Not yet However..

I can't find any Virgin service running between Wrexham and Euston anymore- has it been axed?

Also appears to be another Virgin Super Voyager service no longer running- no sign of a Lancaster to Euston service departing around 05:35. This means Lancaster is without an arrival into London before 09:00, and Preston has almost 90 mins between the first and second London trains departing.

The best find yet though is an Arriva Trains Wales direct service between Birmingham N St and Manchester Picc, via Wolves, Shrewsbury, Wrexham, Chester and Warrington Bank Quay.. (21:24 arriving 00:28)

Does anyone know when I'll be able to see a copy of a VT winter timetable, which includes weekend diversions over the S&C line? I've heard they're running between 2nd April and 15th May.

Interesting finds Voyagerdude.

1.It would not surprise me to see the Wrexham Euston axed, it carries hardly any London passengers either way, & is only used as a commuter between Wrexham/Chester/Crewe, this service replaced an ATW local.

2.The Lancaster/Euston early morning is joined up at Crewe with the first Holyhead ex around 4.30a.m. surprise if the first out of Holyhead was axed.

3.ATW Birmingham to Man Picc via Wrexham, this is the first I have heard of this, where did you get this info from?

 

[voyagerdude220]

I got the timetable info from East Coast's website, as mentioned in my original post. I used a weekday date sometime in mid December, post timetable change.

Just a correction to an error i've made-

It appears that the Lancaster to Euston Super Voyager service is still running as far as Crewe, where it is advertised as terminating. I didn't realise this at the time, as I was only looking for direct trains. I don't personally see why VT are no longer showing the Lancaster portion as running to London? (The Holyhead to Euston portion of the service is still running as per now)

I know at the moment, the Lancaster portion forms the front set of the double southwards from Crewe, before tugging on the back of the 09:10 Euston to Holyhead as far as Chester, where it divides & returns back to London.

The Birmingham to Manchester Arriva service seems to be a one off service, with no southbound equivalents. My first thought when I saw it, was a possible positioning move for the day after?

 

[merlodlliw]

I got the timetable info from East Coast's website, as mentioned in my original post. I used a weekday date sometime in mid December, post timetable change.

Just a correction to an error i've made-

It appears that the Lancaster to Euston Super Voyager service is still running as far as Crewe, where it is advertised as terminating. I didn't realise this at the time, as I was only looking for direct trains. I don't personally see why VT are no longer showing the Lancaster portion as running to London? (The Holyhead to Euston portion of the service is still running as per now)

I know at the moment, the Lancaster portion forms the front set of the double southwards from Crewe, before tugging on the back of the 09:10 Euston to Holyhead as far as Chester, where it divides & returns back to London.

The Birmingham to Manchester Arriva service seems to be a one off service, with no southbound equivalents. My first thought when I saw it, was a possible positioning move for the day after?

The Birmingham to Manchester movements are interesting, as up to now all
175s return to the garage at Chester from Man Picc, I am under the impression there are no ATW staff based at Man Picc, others may know different, however no one else is aware of the Birmingham via Wrexham Man Picc service up here, could this be a May 2011 starter.

 

[paul@skegby.org.]

Some brief details are starting to appear here...

http://www.nationalrail.co.uk/service_disruptions/timetable_changes/2010_December/2010_December.html

 

[swt_passenger]

It appears that the Lancaster to Euston Super Voyager service is still running as far as Crewe, where it is advertised as terminating. I didn't realise this at the time, as I was only looking for direct trains. I don't personally see why VT are no longer showing the Lancaster portion as running to London? (The Holyhead to Euston portion of the service is still running as per now)

Isn't this one of the known problems with the new timetabling software - combining (and splitting) trains on route? Could just be a temporary glitch.

By the way, Virgin's 0700 Wrexham to Chester is still in the NR planner if you tick the 'slower trains' box

 

[AlexS]

21:24 Birmingham New Street [BHM] 6B Manchester Piccadilly [MAN]
00:28 13 3h 04m

*
null Seating Class Information
close
Seating Class information
o This train has Standard Class seating only
*
null Cycle policy
close
Cycle policy
This train has a cycle policy.

Calling points Arrives Departs
Smethwick Galton Bridge [SGB] 21:30 21:30
Wolverhampton [WVH] 21:42 21:43
Telford Central [TFC] 21:59 21:59
Wellington (Shropshire) [WLN] 22:06 22:07
Shrewsbury [SHR] 22:19 22:23
Gobowen [GOB] 22:43 22:43
Chirk [CRK] 22:48 22:48
Ruabon [RUA] 22:54 22:54
Wrexham General [WRX] 23:00 23:01
Chester [CTR] 23:18 23:22
Helsby [HSB] 23:31 23:31
Frodsham [FRD] 23:35 23:35
Runcorn East [RUE] 23:40 23:41
Warrington Bank Quay [WBQ] 23:49 23:49
Earlestown [ERL] 23:56 23:56
Newton-le-Willows [NLW] 23:59 23:59

Arriva Trains Wales service from Birmingham International to Manchester Piccadilly hide calling points

Is a direct cut and paste from NRE - FO I think though?

 

[tbtc]

First direct service from Wrexham to Manchester?

 

[merlodlliw]

First direct service from Wrexham to Manchester?

First for ATW except when the Salop/Crewe line was closed earlier this year, used to be a Wrexham to Manchester about 20 years ago, if I recall.

Looking at the calling points, it appears to be the usual 158 service Birmingham to Chester via Wrexham, then replacing the 175 Chester to Man Picc, this in turn returns to the garage at Chester.

So not an extra service in real terms.

A big improvement would be to run an early morning service this way. Salop to Man Picc via Wrexham

 

[mickey]

By the way, Virgin's 0700 Wrexham to Chester is still in the NR planner if you tick the 'slower trains' box

Ooh, I bet they love that!

Incidentally, Merseyrail's winter changes have also now appeared. Chester is 15min frequency as expected, but the extra ones go express from Hooton, not stopping at either Capenhurst (expected) or Bache (not expected). JT saving is just 2 mins officially, though even that should help with turnarounds. Peak time is all trains all stops.

 

[ChrisTheRef]

TPE are finally stopping at Liverpool South Parkway!

It's only been 3 years....!

 

[mickey]

TPE are finally stopping at Liverpool South Parkway!

It's only been 3 years....!

Anecdotal evidence (mine!) suggests that LM's LPY passengers have significantly increased in number over the past year or so, which I'm guessing has shown there is a market for them. All TOCs were initially scared to start calling there in case they couldn't stop again if it proved disastrous, so maybe finally they've seen it can work.

I support the move, though only if it doesn't increase journey time.

And presumably Merseytravel tickets and passes will be accepted?

 

[jopsuk]

Some brief details are starting to appear here...

http://www.nationalrail.co.uk/service_disruptions/timetable_changes/2010_December/2010_December.html

On the NXEA changes

A new hourly service between Ipswich and Saxmundham will operate with Lowestoft/Peterborough to London journeys involving a change of trains at Ipswich
Most Norwich – Cambridge services will operate as 3 carriage trains (previously 2).
Most Ipswich – Cambridge trains upgraded to more modern 2 carriage trains.

So, no more diesels to Liverpool Street? I assume the latter parts also mean that almost all of the diesel services at Cambridge will now be Turbostars, with a cascade of the extra units from the through-London services (all three car?) going on to the Norwich service (currently often two-car) and the resultant two-car 170s shifting the 156s and 153s elsewhere? Will these be staying with NXEA to lenghten other services in the region?

 

[ChrisTheRef]

Anecdotal evidence (mine!) suggests that LM's LPY passengers have significantly increased in number over the past year or so, which I'm guessing has shown there is a market for them. All TOCs were initially scared to start calling there in case they couldn't stop again if it proved disastrous, so maybe finally they've seen it can work.

I support the move, though only if it doesn't increase journey time.

And presumably Merseytravel tickets and passes will be accepted?

Indeed they will be. Arrival time into Warrington Central is one minute later than at present. They crawl through at 20mph at the moment anyway, which is why I always thought it was worth them stopping.

If it was London Midland, I'd understand a little more as you lose a good few minutes getting from 80mph down to 0mph and back again.

 

[Pumbaa]

I support the move, though only if it doesn't increase journey time.

And presumably Merseytravel tickets and passes will be accepted?

With TPE, the xx22 results in the recovery time being eaten into at Oxford Road by 1 min. The xx07 from Piccadilly currently wait outside LPY for the xx34 to come through. Now the xx34 will go down the slows from Edge Hill like the xx04 currently does.

 

[TheBigD]

On the NXEA changes

So, no more diesels to Liverpool Street? I assume the latter parts also mean that almost all of the diesel services at Cambridge will now be Turbostars, with a cascade of the extra units from the through-London services (all three car?) going on to the Norwich service (currently often two-car) and the resultant two-car 170s shifting the 156s and 153s elsewhere? Will these be staying with NXEA to lenghten other services in the region?

Until the Beccles loop is installed (Dec 2012?) NXEA will have 1 spare 2 car unit (on paper!), no idea what they plan to do with it though.
When the Beccles loop is ready the East Suffolk line will then have an hourly service.

 

[dk1]

Until the Beccles loop is installed (Dec 2012?) NXEA will have 1 spare 2 car unit (on paper!), no idea what they plan to do with it though.
When the Beccles loop is ready the East Suffolk line will then have an hourly service.

Still minus 1x156 following Sudbury incident so no net gain just yet.

 

[87015]

Until the Beccles loop is installed (Dec 2012?) NXEA will have 1 spare 2 car unit (on paper!), no idea what they plan to do with it though.
When the Beccles loop is ready the East Suffolk line will then have an hourly service.

Nope same number of 156/170 diagrams as current. 153s are all that are freed up, only off-peak SX rocket turn will be the Felixstowe. A few changes if/when Beccles loop changes come in to find a 156 to cover those turns.

Still got the earlybird 158 turn which NX are funding to retain unit knowledge which is fairly impressive given the franchise situation.

 

[TheBigD]

Apologies. I seem to remember reading about the changes that in one of the magazines which mentioned about the spare unit until the loop opened. Unless I'm going mad!!!

 

[xtradj]

•Six trains between Newcastle and Reading will now run between Southampton and Reading, calling at Basingstoke, Winchester and Southampton Airport Parkway.
•Six trains between Reading and Newcastle will now run between Southampton and Newcastle, calling at Southampton Airport Parkway, Winchester and Basingstoke

I assume they mean between Southampton and Newcastle (not Reading)

i.e. the Newcastle - Reading / Reading - Newcastle.. is now Soton - Newcastle / Newcastle - Soton?

 

[voyagerdude220]

i.e. the Newcastle - Reading / Reading - Newcastle.. is now Soton - Newcastle / Newcastle - Soton?

Yep that's right, extended services are:

07:23 Newcastle to Southampton Central (arrives 13:17)
09:35 Newcastle to Southampton Central (arrives 15:17)
11:27 Newcastle to Southampton Central (arrives 17:17)
13:34 Newcastle to Southampton Central (arrives 19:53)

09:46 Southampton Central to Newcastle (arrives 15:53)
11:46 Southampton Central to Newcastle (arrives 17:50)
13:46 Southampton Central to Newcastle (arrives 20:13)
15:47 Southampton Central to Newcastle (arrives 21:55)

 

[Failed Unit]

Probably already covered but the Scotrail Bathgate - Drumgellock service starts. Leaving Waverley at 07 18 37 48 minutes past each hour. From Queen Street 24 28 54 and 58 minutes past the hour. Edinburgh Park to Glasgow in about 55 mins on a fast service.

Will be interesting to see how many pax leave the Falkirk route as a result. I am sure if you are going say Edinburgh - Partick it will be quicker now vai Bathgate then changing trains. Likewise Livingston and Edinburgh Park will go direct.

Services to Dunblane from Edinburgh slowed down as a result.

 

[me123]

Just to elaborate on the above, timings West of Queen Street and through Partick remain the same. The trains are broadly fitting into the existing timetable as follows:

Airdrie-Balloch; All stops via Singer
Springburn-Dalmuir; All stops via Yoker
Edinburgh-Helensburgh; All stops to Hyndland, limited stop to Helensburgh
Edinburgh-Milngavie; Limited Stop (will be extended from the current Milngavie-High Street/Bellgrove service).

Scotrail haven't yet published anything official into the public domain, so no doubt there'll be other tweaks here and there.

Also, not strictly a TT thing, but Class 158s will now be operating the Glasgow Central-Whifflet and Motherwell-Cumbernauld routes (for some reason) in order to release 4 Class 156 trains for strengthening elsewhere. This was made possible by electrifying out to Bathgate, and will mean that there are longer trains elsewhere on the network, so something to look out for.

 

[tbtc]

Class 158s will now be operating the Glasgow Central-Whifflet and Motherwell-Cumbernauld routes

Good to see the Northern 158s being put to a good use...

 

[swt_passenger]

•Six trains between Newcastle and Reading will now run between Southampton and Reading, calling at Basingstoke, Winchester and Southampton Airport Parkway.
•Six trains between Reading and Newcastle will now run between Southampton and Newcastle, calling at Southampton Airport Parkway, Winchester and Basingstoke

I assume they mean between Southampton and Newcastle (not Reading)

i.e. the Newcastle - Reading / Reading - Newcastle.. is now Soton - Newcastle / Newcastle - Soton?

If Network Rail had read our earlier thread about the Southampton extensions, they'd know that the calling patterns are a bit more varied than that, not all the trains do the whole route, and the first up train starts at Winchester. Which is probably why 'voyagerdude' has only found 2/3 of the services...

 

[me123]

Good to see the Northern 158s being put to a good use...

I know, it's totally stupid.

In all reality, they could just as easily have put them on the likes of Edinburgh-Glasgow via Shotts, retained Class 156 operation on the Whifflet routes, and still had the four 156s to spare. You could even join a 156 and a 158 if need be. To be fair, we do need the stock, we're just allocating it in a weird and pretty stupid way.

As much as I'm looking forward to getting a 158 on the Whifflet line (for the novelty value more than anything else), I can't help but think that there's plenty more routes in Scotland alone that the trains could be deployed on, never mind the dozens in England and Wales!

 

[tbtc]

I know, it's totally stupid.

In all reality, they could just as easily have put them on the likes of Edinburgh-Glasgow via Shotts, retained Class 156 operation on the Whifflet routes, and still had the four 156s to spare. You could even join a 156 and a 158 if need be. To be fair, we do need the stock, we're just allocating it in a weird and pretty stupid way.

As much as I'm looking forward to getting a 158 on the Whifflet line (for the novelty value more than anything else), I can't help but think that there's plenty more routes in Scotland alone that the trains could be deployed on, never mind the dozens in England and Wales!

It's just another world. Having read on here about Cardiff - Manchester being run by 150s at the weekend, seeing it's possible to do a round trip from Liverpool > Manchester Victoria > Leeds > Sheffield > Manchester Piccadilly > Liverpool circle by Pacer...

...until electrification happens I think there's justification for a fleet of 150s for lines like Whifflet/ Anniesland/ Paisley Canal/ East Kilbride etc. This would free up 156/158s to better use down south.

I appreciate the capacity is needed around Glasgow (though it is elsewhere too), but it's a bit like Citylink running the 398!