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Winter of discontent for FCC?

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jon0844

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Am I going to be proven right that this winter isn't going to be very good for FCC?

Why do I say this, when overall they run a pretty good service?

Because of the perception from the public. Not people like you and me who know a little more about what goes on.

I'm talking about the GN side here, which is the 'good' side (goodness knows how they're getting on over on the TL route), but the new customer information system is so bad that it makes FCC look totally unable to run a railway - from not announcing trains, to announcing trains that have already left (and apologising for the delay that never was).

THIS will have people hearing all the apologies and making the, quite understandable, assumption that FCC has been unable to run anything to time recently. How ironic that FCC paid money for something to make them look incompetent!

Then, for those of us who respected FCC for listening to the public and having their online forums, it seems they've ditched the meet the directors forum (and removed the archived questions) from the website. It was becoming a joke recently, with unidentified members of staff failing to answer questions and just give standard statements you'd expect from a work experience customer services representative - perhaps this was to be expected. Have all the other FirstGroup companies done this now?

And also, they now seem to be operating a drive to get revenue staff on as many trains as possible. That's not a bad thing, but it is when they have staff who are poorly trained, or given bad information. Yesterday, me and others were hassled on a train for sitting in first class - which was declassified. The poor guy (I say poor guy, but really that's no excuse as he's been trained to do the job) was totally unaware of what declassified meant, and looked totally lost as I pointed out the train he was on had no '1'.

Now, he should understand that to work as an RPI, but what was more worrying was the fact that he checked his paperwork and said he'd been told to come on that service solely to do first class! Now if me and some others hadn't been there, he would have given out totally invalid PFs. Part of me says that if someone didn't know they were in a declassified section they should be treated as fare evaders, but that isn't actually allowed in reality.

FCC seems to, however, think it's worth chancing their luck if they're sending staff to issue illegal penalty fares. The RPI never did the rest of the train, simply staying on to Finsbury Park to get another train after making a phone call on his BlackBerry. I hope he had more luck later on.

Other RPI staff have been overheard comparing numbers of tickets issued, and giving high fives to each other for their success! Now, my understanding is that they don't earn commission - but FCC must be doing some sort of competition with staff as they're incredibly hungry and jumping over each other to try and catch people. Now, if they're issuing every PF legitimately then that's great, but are they? That's what worries me.

Finally, has FCC now sorted out the staffing levels? I'm seeing the odd service which is cancelled due to a shortage of staff - and hope that it's just down to illness and lack of cover, but if we start getting this happening in the run up to Christmas then all the hard work that FCC has done over the years is going to be undone in no time.

But, at least there's no longer any way to moan about it on their website...
 
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Royston Vasey

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Then, for those of us who respected FCC for listening to the public and having their online forums, it seems they've ditched the meet the directors forum (and removed the archived questions) from the website. It was becoming a joke recently, with unidentified members of staff failing to answer questions and just give standard statements you'd expect from a work experience customer services representative - perhaps this was to be expected. Have all the other FirstGroup companies done this now?

My particular irritation with Meet the Directors was that half the questions came from Mr P Skuce and were utterly trivial, like can he see 319s on the GN side for a nice change, what he thinks of the seat moquettes, can we have 1st gen DMUs back, what the number of the unit next to be refurbished is, what the number of the unit that passed Welwyn at 07:43 on XXth March was...

And so forth

If they'd barred him then perhaps genuine users of the services may have been able to get more value frmo the forum and they themselves would have gained more useful feedback from real people.
 

Z12XE

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If they'd barred him then perhaps genuine users of the services may have been able to get more value frmo the forum

You've just answered why they wont do that, and will keep taking questions from Peter Skuce.

His trivial matters take up the time, are easy for them to answer and reduce the chance of negative comments and difficult to answer questions.
 

Royston Vasey

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You've just answered why they wont do that, and will keep taking questions from Peter Skuce.

His trivial matters take up the time, are easy for them to answer and reduce the chance of negative comments and difficult to answer questions.

Haha that's a cynical viewpoint and I'd like to think it wasn't true! Was the forum a franchise requirement or something FCC themselves instigated? Or is it a case of it being Elaine's baby that the incumbents were happy to let die?
 

Greenback

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As far as I know, FGW have never had online 'Meet the Directors' type chats. They have 'Meet the Manager' sessions on trains and stations, or at least they used to. Very little seems to end up online though.

FCC's PF's are very worrying. I am against the scheme anyway, but what is happening witht he RPI's is disgraceful. It's not fair on anyone to send out members of staff who quite simply don't know the first thing about railways or hwo their role fits in to the bigger picture. I'm not sure that FCC are deliberately encouraging competition though. They may be of course, but it's also human nature to be competitive, and I've had a numbe rof jobs where I compare figures with colleagues. Even in the ticket office, I used to have a sort of competition with one of my friends, to see who would issue the most tickets in a shift when we were working together! On the other hand, I'm sure FCC will not be disappointed at their staff showing such enthusiasm for doing their job, badly trained or not!
 

Failed Unit

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The meet the managers is going the same way on Scotland. It happens but is not as well advertised as it used to be hence why some months get no questions asked. Under Mary Dickson they liked the silly questions like why doesnt the PIS work? It shows the passengers haven't got more important issues on their mind.
 

jon0844

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Since the site re-design, the forum has gone along with any mention of it. Google might have earlier sessions cached, but you won't find them on the site.

They do still do the on-site meet the managers events though, but in comparison they're a waste of time.
 

scrapy

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Under Mary Dickson they liked the silly questions like why doesnt the PIS work? It shows the passengers haven't got more important issues on their mind.

Why is this a silly question for a passenger to ask? what should they be asking instead?
 

stut

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I agree that the online forum definitely went downhill. You used to get genuine answers and, more importantly, follow-up from Elaine Holt, but after she left it got more and more a cut-n-paste job. I, er, may have got frustrated with it once or twice and managed to upset one of the managers and/or Peter Skuce. I'm not proud :)

I see they are, according to PFAS, also recruiting some "Fraud Control Officers". How are they going to differ from RPIs, I wonder?
 

Failed Unit

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Why is this a silly question for a passenger to ask? what should they be asking instead?

Why does do you constantly run late / short form / cancel trains etc.

Another question they always hated when I personally asked was why do you never check tickets on the front 3 coaches of the Edinburgh - Glasgow line when you claim to take fare evasion seriously. The seemed to think the barriers stopped fraud on this route. :roll:
 

jon0844

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Elaine Holt used to get asked some rather tough questions, including many about the removal/reduction of a student discount for TL users. She was also asked questions about the franchise and so on. To be fair, she answered them - along with those about the introduction of the evening peak. People didn't necessarily like the answers, but they got them.

I must admit that in more recent forums it has been about one person asking for a visit to Hornsey, and details of how the refresh programme has been getting on. In other words, fluffy questions that are probably best left asked when said poster actually visited their depots.

I see no harm in asking about customer information, and I am sure that they'd not want to take questions on this at the current time. Nor did they seem happy to address the driver shortage, or anything that paints them in a bad light.

What they don't realise, as Elaine (and others working with her at the time) did is that you can turn a negative into a positive. Explaining the reasons behind something that might seem wrong/stupid can earn you a great deal of respect, as well as (of course) educating the person with the complaint.

I can remember when they had major disruption that they'd have a full and detailed answer of everything that happened posted on the forum. Now they'd simply play it down or deny it.
 

Clip

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I agree that the online forum definitely went downhill. You used to get genuine answers and, more importantly, follow-up from Elaine Holt, but after she left it got more and more a cut-n-paste job. I, er, may have got frustrated with it once or twice and managed to upset one of the managers and/or Peter Skuce. I'm not proud :)

I see they are, according to PFAS, also recruiting some "Fraud Control Officers". How are they going to differ from RPIs, I wonder?

I think these guys are going to do what we got a team of RPIs to do and gather evidence of the most persistent offenders - those who like to travel with an Oyster when they live out side the zones and so forth.

We had excellent results from our guys and with one investigation we managed to trace him back for a few years of fraud and got a settlement out of him before we took it to court.
 

Greenback

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They seem to have adopted a more defensive attitude since Elaine Holt left. Nonetheless, they should remember that answering difficult questions helps them to win over customers who may otherwise feel dissatisfied and disgruntled.
 

jopsuk

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My particular irritation with Meet the Directors was that half the questions came from Mr P Skuce and were utterly trivial, like can he see 319s on the GN side for a nice change, what he thinks of the seat moquettes, can we have 1st gen DMUs back, what the number of the unit next to be refurbished is, what the number of the unit that passed Welwyn at 07:43 on XXth March was...

And so forth

If they'd barred him then perhaps genuine users of the services may have been able to get more value frmo the forum and they themselves would have gained more useful feedback from real people.
Maybe they shoulkd have had a seperate page just for him...
 

swt_passenger

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You've just answered why they wont do that, and will keep taking questions from Peter Skuce.

His trivial matters take up the time, are easy for them to answer and reduce the chance of negative comments and difficult to answer questions.

Does he live in the FCC(GN) area?

Reason I ask is he comes up with very similar ridiculous questions of SWT on their webchats...
 

Z12XE

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St Albans according to his Fotopic website.

I remember a letter writing campaign he had about 5 years ago (the contents of which were always CC'd to just about every YahooGroup to do with Railways) where he wrote to almost every TOC about such things - including suggestions for seat rag colours, and the paint which should be used on the hand rails.....
 

MCR247

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He is on another forum and his location is St Albans :lol:
 

scotsman

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I see they are, according to PFAS, also recruiting some "Fraud Control Officers". How are they going to differ from RPIs, I wonder?

Scotrail has "Fraud & Security" staff too, they tend to be about on stations to investiagte abuse of particular ticket types (and hopefully, abuse of staff).

They don't tend to know what they're on about either, a mate of mine was told he was "defrauding the railway" by not puting his Daytripper ticket through an automatic barrier at Glasgow Queen Street.

I saw a team of them at Linlithgow once, they could best be described by that fantastic Glaswegian word "heavies"
 

lm321412

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They won't ban Peter Skuce, if they did then they might have nobody on their forums!

Also of note, Is it me or are the times of the forum really stupid?

The customers that are usually let down by them are at work during this time! (except Skuce of course)
 

Failed Unit

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Scotrail has "Fraud & Security" staff too, they tend to be about on stations to investiagte abuse of particular ticket types (and hopefully, abuse of staff).

They don't tend to know what they're on about either, a mate of mine was told he was "defrauding the railway" by not puting his Daytripper ticket through an automatic barrier at Glasgow Queen Street.

I saw a team of them at Linlithgow once, they could best be described by that fantastic Glaswegian word "heavies"

A mate of mine got into a argument with the heavies at Linlithgow for not dating his flexipass. He argued that it is not required until he gets on the train not the platform. They said otherwise. He asked what happens if the train is cancelled? The just asked him if he wants access to the platform or not and filled the date in. Job satisfaction or what!
 

jon0844

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They always did them in the day, but advertised them in advance well, so they got a lot of people involved - and maybe people did so because they were at work.

However, they didn't advertise or promote the last two - and the last one had virtually no questions at all.
 

Aictos

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Please note I have spoken to FCC and myself together with the person I spoke with were in agreement that the Forums were not good enough and needed strong drastic action to rectify, I've brought this to their attention and will continue to do so along with other measures as it's the best way for FCC's management to get out there and answer the punters many many questions and not just these asking about seat covers, light diffusers etc...
 

scotsman

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A mate of mine got into a argument with the heavies at Linlithgow for not dating his flexipass. He argued that it is not required until he gets on the train not the platform. They said otherwise. He asked what happens if the train is cancelled? The just asked him if he wants access to the platform or not and filled the date in. Job satisfaction or what!

Once saw heavies at Lithgae on a Sunday morning! They really just do what they are told and do nothing else.
 

jon0844

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Please note I have spoken to FCC and myself together with the person I spoke with were in agreement that the Forums were not good enough and needed strong drastic action to rectify, I've brought this to their attention and will continue to do so along with other measures as it's the best way for FCC's management to get out there and answer the punters many many questions and not just these asking about seat covers, light diffusers etc...

The forum should just create rules and not entertain people who swamp it with rolling stock questions (at least, within reason, as there's no harm in Joe Public asking why toilets don't work or whatever).

Meeting in person is fine, but the forum keeps a record and hopefully (well, it did) put you in touch with a range of people from different departments. I'm not sure that happened in the last few though.

Elaine had a whole team, from people in engineering, timetable planning, revenue and so on (and they signed off their replies). Nobody ever introduced themselves or signed off on the more recent forums.
 

Greenback

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From the sound of it, there is little point in having forums like the last couple have been. Perhaps FCC have decided it isn't worth the time and effor tto communicate with their customers in this way, which, if true, is both sad and short sighted. However, it's probably better for it to be discontinued than to have a forum that isn't publicised, gets little participation and no meaningful answers from the company in any case.
 

jon0844

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The last one was a total waste of time. It's a shame the archive has gone, as you could see that it was pretty much me asking for clarification of their easement on the rules about combining two season tickets (and them saying I'd be prosecuted, followed by a promise that they'd follow it up afterwards - which they didn't) and questions about seat covers, train refreshes and depot visits! I think they also slipped in many pre-prepared statements about their new timetable and providing new seats (which, to be fair, has worked brilliantly in my experience - on the GN side at least).

I certainly don't think they should run the forum for just 5-6 people, but it's a classic trick by companies. They stopped promoting the forum/service/product, so obviously less people used it. A company can then say that nobody was using it, so there was no point in running it/providing it/selling it. People accept that as a reason and move on.

Businesses do this all the time and most people can't even spot it.
 

Greenback

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The last one was a total waste of time. It's a shame the archive has gone, as you could see that it was pretty much me asking for clarification of their easement on the rules about combining two season tickets (and them saying I'd be prosecuted, followed by a promise that they'd follow it up afterwards - which they didn't) and questions about seat covers, train refreshes and depot visits! I think they also slipped in many pre-prepared statements about their new timetable and providing new seats (which, to be fair, has worked brilliantly in my experience - on the GN side at least).

I certainly don't think they should run the forum for just 5-6 people, but it's a classic trick by companies. They stopped promoting the forum/service/product, so obviously less people used it. A company can then say that nobody was using it, so there was no point in running it/providing it/selling it. People accept that as a reason and move on.

Businesses do this all the time and most people can't even spot it.

Indeed, just like many other things on the railway that get withdrawn through so called lack of use!

I wonder if the removal of the archive is in any way linked to their change of policy on combining seasons?
 

jon0844

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Well, I gave up on this after Elaine told me she couldn't remember all the details and that other people had also left. I did get another contact from her though, within FirstGroup, but felt it would take ages, and probably prove fruitless - as FCC could simply say that these people don't work there and/or they've changed their policy.

I'm disappointed that they don't get back to you at all, but figure they've got me marked down as a troublemaker now. As one of their biggest supporters at the same time, it goes to show how they really don't 'get it'.
 

Greenback

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They should realise that far from being troublemakers, people who raise issues are foten very supportive of the organisation. There are some trouble makers and serial complainers, but by and large, quite a few people complain because they like the company, and want to bring matters of concern to the attention of the bosses so that things can be improved further.

I think it;s dangerous to close off such a means of easy communication, particularly in this digital age where so much can be done online. However, it seems like a very 'First' thing to do, stop something that takes a bit of time, expense and effort, and hope that the short term effect is bearable, ie not too bad!
 
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