Why the Portishead Delay?

[Irascible]

Devon County Council have been trying to get Okehampton line operational for a daily regular passenger service since they started the Sunday service in 1997 (and probably before that) and have only just succeeded (24 years later) so maybe delay on Portishead is comparable to that ?

Before that, iirc... and if you look at the Portishead timeline it already is approaching comparable!

 

[Web4160]

It only takes one angry person, if they are persistent. The delays to the Ordsall chord are an excellent case study of what one person can manage if they are prepared to pay for legal challenges. The 6 month delay means the line probably won't be reopened by the next general election scheduled for May 2024. I doubt ministers would have authorised the delay if they had an alternative.

Most of the small number of objectors appeared to be house owners close to line in Portishead. I think their concern was more motivated by the effect on house prices than environmental issues. Given that the houses and indeed the school were all built knowing the reopening of the line was a possibility not really sure there is a genuine case to object.

 

[75A]

That's the British Nimby in action.

 

[JKF]

The more flexible layout would be to have a crossover at the Portishead/Portbury end of the station (where the current junction is) in addition to the proposed new points near Pill Tunnel. Then if there are no freight services, up (to Bristol) trains can use the up platform leaving the down platform available for down (Portishead) services, thus allowing two trains to pass. But of course, that would cost more money.

A passing loop that close to the end of the line wouldn’t be that useful, Ashton would be a better spot for it.

It’s a shame they aren’t sending trains down to Wapping Wharf as was proposed in one of the earlier reopening schemes, that would serve the city centre much better than Temple Meads, though given the state of the line along the river that wouldn‘t be cheap.

 

[Annetts key]

A passing loop that close to the end of the line wouldn’t be that useful, Ashton would be a better spot for it.

It’s a shame they aren’t sending trains down to Wapping Wharf as was proposed in one of the earlier reopening schemes, that would serve the city centre much better than Temple Meads, though given the state of the line along the river that wouldn‘t be cheap.

There is already a passing loop of sorts at Ashton, between Barons Close and Parson Street junction. Trains can be held on the down line here, however with the current signalling system up trains have to be signalled all the way through and cannot be held on this section of double line.

Before the line was relaid for freight, it was dual lines between Ashton Vale Road and and Parson Street junction, with the points being right outside the Signal box at the level crossing. And there was no limitation on holding trains in either direction.

The route of the line to Wapping Wharf has that darned guided bus route in the way now. Bristol City Council are not going to agree to that being ripped up only a short number of years after spending all that money putting it in. Unfortunately part of it has been built on the former railway track bed/line of route .

 

[Envoy]

Most of the small number of objectors appeared to be house owners close to line in Portishead. I think their concern was more motivated by the effect on house prices than environmental issues. Given that the houses and indeed the school were all built knowing the reopening of the line was a possibility not really sure there is a genuine case to object.

Surely, the value of houses in Portishead would increase substantially with the rail link.

When/if trains ever start running, will they just go as far as Temple Meads? Surely, it would be best if they continued to the proposed stations at North Filton & Henbury?

 

[John R]

A passing loop that close to the end of the line wouldn’t be that useful, Ashton would be a better spot for it.

It’s a shame they aren’t sending trains down to Wapping Wharf as was proposed in one of the earlier reopening schemes, that would serve the city centre much better than Temple Meads, though given the state of the line along the river that wouldn‘t be cheap.

The business centre has migrated over the last 20 years and the majority of office space is now at Temple Quay. Lloyds pulling out of Canons House (the iconic building at the harbour) will continue that trend. And Temple Meads is only 10 mins walk from Cabot Circus. So it’s no longer quite as inconvenient as it was in relation to commuter traffic as historically it used to be.

 

[Kingston Dan]

Wikipedia records that in 2019, Packham stated he would no longer take internal flights and that he had purchased an electric car, which is clearly more environmentally beneficial than old diesel trains.

I'm not sure it's that clear cut. What's the carbon impact of the manufacture of a brand new electric vehicle (plus all the very real issues about rare metals used in batteries) compared with the marginal cost of keeping existing vehicles going? The rush to electric cars is just the latest marketing ploy by the big automotive companies and road lobby. We need lower car ownership and more active and public transport.

Packham is still advertising bird watching trips via air to the south Atlantic.

 

[507020]

I'm not sure it's that clear cut. What's the carbon impact of the manufacture of a brand new electric vehicle (plus all the very real issues about rare metals used in batteries) compared with the marginal cost of keeping existing vehicles going? The rush to electric cars is just the latest marketing ploy by the big automotive companies and road lobby. We need lower car ownership and more active and public transport.

Packham is still advertising bird watching trips via air to the south Atlantic.

How many electric cars will be sold to Portishead residents during the 6 month delay and how many people with an brand new electric car will ditch them in favour of the much needed railway when it opens? Hopefully there will be more of the second than the first.

 

[Annetts key]

How many electric cars will be sold to Portishead residents during the 6 month delay and how many people with an brand new electric car will ditch them in favour of the much needed railway when it opens? Hopefully there will be more of the second than the first.

No matter how many electric cars are bought by the people living in Portishead, that will not solve the problem of the one and only road between the town and the M5 motorway junction from suffering very bad traffic congestion. And it will not help with the very bad traffic congestion in Bristol.

The reopening of the railway line will give some people an alternative that will not be affected by the delays on the main road or by the road traffic in Bristol.

Obviously the train will not be suitable for everyone. How many switch, we will only know if/once the train service is up and running.

 

[Yindee8191]

No matter how many electric cars are bought by the people living in Portishead, that will not solve the problem of the one and only road between the town and the M5 motorway junction from suffering very bad traffic congestion. And it will not help with the very bad traffic congestion in Bristol.

The reopening of the railway line will give some people an alternative that will not be affected by the delays on the main road or by the road traffic in Bristol.

Obviously the train will not be suitable for everyone. How many switch, we will only know if/once the train service is up and running.

As someone living nearby - plenty of people will switch. The Portbury Hundred is infamously unreliable and commuting into Bristol is well known to be a miserable experience. A consistent, eco-friendly and (so far as Class 166s can be described as comfortable) comfortable railway line directly to one of the main economic areas of Bristol will attract plenty of people out of their cars.

 

[Web4160]

Surely, the value of houses in Portishead would increase substantially with the rail link.

When/if trains ever start running, will they just go as far as Temple Meads? Surely, it would be best if they continued to the proposed stations at North Filton & Henbury?

It's only a small number very close to the site of the proposed new station who seem to have objected. I think you are correct, that based on experience elsewhere, in most cases house prices are likely to increase. The other concern voiced by objectors is parking given that many of the houses near to the line have very limited parking now.

 

[507020]

No matter how many electric cars are bought by the people living in Portishead, that will not solve the problem of the one and only road between the town and the M5 motorway junction from suffering very bad traffic congestion. And it will not help with the very bad traffic congestion in Bristol.

The reopening of the railway line will give some people an alternative that will not be affected by the delays on the main road or by the road traffic in Bristol.

Obviously the train will not be suitable for everyone. How many switch, we will only know if/once the train service is up and running.

An electric car may well be preferable to a petrol car for extremely low speed driving in such bad traffic congestion, but I wouldn’t exactly say that cars, whatever they are powered by, are really suitable for many people commuting from Portishead to Bristol anyway given their nightmarish experiences every day on the Portbury Hundred, but as you say they have no alternative.

As someone living nearby - plenty of people will switch. The Portbury Hundred is infamously unreliable and commuting into Bristol is well known to be a miserable experience. A consistent, eco-friendly and (so far as Class 166s can be described as comfortable) comfortable railway line directly to one of the main economic areas of Bristol will attract plenty of people out of their cars.

This is obvious to anyone who has spent half a second thinking about it, so this delay is doing no good at all. People who have purchased an electric car now and wouldn’t even consider the railway if they lived elsewhere will likely still be so sick of trying to drive by the time it opens that they will try it one day and stick with. No doubt there are also people in Portishead aware of the project who have every intention of using the railway every day from the day it opens.

 

[Envoy]

It's only a small number very close to the site of the proposed new station who seem to have objected. I think you are correct, that based on experience elsewhere, in most cases house prices are likely to increase. The other concern voiced by objectors is parking given that many of the houses near to the line have very limited parking now.

I would have thought that houses close to the proposed station would have the most to gain in terms of value should the line be up and running. Of course, it would be undesirable if the streets became a massive parking lot for commuters from outlying districts of Portishead - something that could be solved by having residents only parking permits? Alternatively, perhaps the local buses could be included as free travel in Portishead for those with a rail ticket?

I note that the motorways in the Bristol area regularly jam up with traffic criss crossing the country meeting locals doing short hops. The rail link would at least remove some of these locals from the motorway network - especially if it was extended to North Filton and Henbury.

(It is regrettable that the M3/A303 direct route between London and Exeter is not a through road of motorway standard as the way things are, many people travelling between London and Exeter, Plymouth, Cornwall use the 30 mile longer M4/M5 route via Bristol. These routes already have to cope with the rest of the country - hence the jams in the Bristol area and Somerset. I see that the Government have had to cancel their proposed tunnel south of Stonehenge because a judge reckons it will upset the ‘ancients’. It apparently does not matter about people getting killed on the present inadequate road). Sorry to digress!

 

[Meerkat]

Of course, it would be undesirable if the streets became a massive parking lot for commuters from outlying districts of Portishead - something that could be solved by having residents only parking permits?

You have residents permits and token parking for 10am to 11am - that gets rid of all day commuter parking without many complications for visitors and deliveries etc.

 

[Dave Beeching]

Busway anyone?

Shapps urged to consider busway alternative to restoration of Portishead rail line​

Shapps urged to consider busway alternative to restoration of Portishead rail line | New Civil Engineer

According to the Portishead Busway Campaign, its proposal could save £100M, reduce emissions and provide a better service for the public. It would cost

www.newcivilengineer.com

 

[zwk500]

Busway anyone?

Given the frequent complaints about Temple Meads's location it's worth considering if it will give a better service into Bristol than a rail link. Bit late in the day to be doing it now though, I'd have thought.

 

[Annetts key]

Busway anyone?

That’s already been proposed previously and rejected by North Somerset Council. Their reply says that it does not solve the problem of busses trying to get through the road traffic congestion at the M5 motorway interchange/roundabout or in the city of Bristol.

Hence I don’t expect this so called proposal to get anywhere without support or backing from both North Somerset Council and Bristol City Councils.

 

[WesternBiker]

Busway anyone?

Where does the £10m figure come from?

In the campaign's own proposal to the Planning Inspectorate the cost is £45m (excluding the additional cost of buses). (Although I notice that every reference to costs is preceded by "roughly"...)

 

[Yindee8191]

Busway anyone?

The main issue with this proposal is that it’s not just the road from Portishead to the M5 that has traffic. The buses would still get stuck on the Portway and then it’s pointless.
At this point any alternative proposals are essentially just attempts to kill the project by delaying and forcing another run through the planning process. I personally think light rail would be best for the Portishead line but at this stage in the process the railway is the only project that has any chance of getting over the line.

 

[nanstallon]

It is pathetic how indecisive and farting about the British are. In France, a decision is made and they get on with it. I don't often agree with the government, and I suspect that here they are seizing on an excuse to scrap the project, but when they say they are going to stop the judicial review process being misused I am with them. The time the Portishead project has been going on with nothing getting done is ridiculous.

 

[geoffk]

You have residents permits and token parking for 10am to 11am - that gets rid of all day commuter parking without many complications for visitors and deliveries etc.

and only minimal enforcement needed. Seen this at many places in the south east.

 

[Bald Rick]

In France, a decision is made and they get on with it.

Like the decision to build LGV PACA, then cancel it, then look at it again, then build something else instead?

 

[fgwrich]

It is pathetic how indecisive and farting about the ENGLISH GOVERNMENT are. In rance, a decision is made and they get on with it. I don't often agree with the government, and I suspect that here they are seizing on an excuse to scrap the project, but when they say they are going to stop the judicial review process being misused I am with them. The time the Portishead project has been going on with nothing getting done is ridiculous.

Edited for you, given how things seem to progress in Scotland and to a slightly lesser extent Wales.

 

[zwk500]

Edited for you, given how things seem to progress in Scotland and to a slightly lesser extent Wales.

Point of order, there's no 'English Government'. Decisions for England are either taken by the British Government or by individual regional bodies.

 

[nanstallon]

Point of order, there's no 'English Government'. Decisions for England are either taken by the British Government or by individual regional bodies.

Exactly - that is why I said Britain. I would agree that Scotland and Wales have a better track record; and on reflection credit is due to the government for getting Okehampton back on the railway map. But the delay over the Portishead scheme is still ridiculous, and it is much harder for any English scheme to actually happen.

 

[24Grange]

Nothing matters in England, except London. (Or at least that's what it seems to be)

 

[fgwrich]

Ok, I meant little get's done by the UK Government across England, vs that done by the devolved (transport powers) Scottish Parliament. Either way, had this been a suburb of Glasgow, I reckon we would actually see some progress on some form of re-instated railway line by now.

 

[contrex]

The Portbury Hundred is infamously unreliable and commuting into Bristol is well known to be a miserable experience.

When I worked in Portishead in 2009, a colleague used to pick me up in Bristol and drive up there for an 8 am start. Around that time an 11 kV power pole collapsed onto the Portbury Hundred and it and the M5 were shut. The whole North Somerset 'peninsula' was rammed. No way in or out. It took us till 1 PM to get to Gordano Services, and the office said 'just go home'. I was back home around 3 pm. In the Gordano services I was interviewed by Radio Bristol.

 

[JKF]

Busway anyone?

Very surprised to see the NCE giving this the time of day, it’s just a crank scheme from a local businessman with no serious costings and few of the benefits of the heavy rail scheme.