Why I avoid e-tickets

[AlterEgo]

CCST is instantly recognisable by everyone as a train ticket, even those who don't use the railway. It is the railway's version of the Coca-Cola bottle.

And yet most Coke isn't drunk from the classic bottle is it?

 

[Wallsendmag]

And yet most Coke isn't drunk from the classic bottle is it?

No it's a thing of the past, ring any bells?

 

[35B]

And yet most Coke isn't drunk from the classic bottle is it?

Yet the iconography is still extremely strong - and used by the Coca Cola company

 

[CyrusWuff]

99 = Ticket checking took too long to complete. I've no idea what sort of ticket checking was happening though.

This is correct.

Chiltern may well be interested to know about your experience.

Probably better to cut out the middle man and go directly to TfL Customer Services, given they provide the back-office.

Whilst it could be an issue with Chiltern's networking, the fact that barcodes were being accepted without issue suggests otherwise.

 

[Joe Paxton]

Probably better to cut out the middle man and go directly to TfL Customer Services, given they provide the back-office.

Whilst it could be an issue with Chiltern's networking, the fact that barcodes were being accepted without issue suggests otherwise.

It sounds as though it's likely to have been an issue with the specific card itself. Ideally I'd have wanted to try an alternative card, but if you don't have another card on your person then that's not much use!

 

[TUC]

If my local supermarket is anything to go by, probably 80% card and 20% phone. With a high proportion of the phone users not having them ready (especially those that also need to open up the digital loyalty card).

If anything, it's those paying by physical cards that are slower as they tend to have to get them out of their purse/wallet whereas with a phone it's just double click, face ID and go.

 

[Adam Williams]

It sounds as though it's likely to have been an issue with the specific card itself. Ideally I'd have wanted to try an alternative card, but if you don't have another card on your person then that's not much use!

I'd be pretty surprised if it was Monzo's fault though if I'd thought a bit more at the time I would've given my Amex a go. I know that Monzo's cards are set-up to prefer online auths to enable real-time purchase notifications but my understanding was that if the gateline was truly offline then it should've been able to do it offline instead.

Was there anything out of the ordinary about this Mastercard?

I don't believe so.

For example, a pre-paid card

No

or a Curve card

No

or one linked to a multi-currency account?

No

Were there any blocks in place preventing certain types of card use?

MCC block for gambling

Was it some sort of niche fintech card?

I wouldn't call it niche (the issuer have 15 million customers), but it wasn't a legacy bank card issued by an entity like LBG.

Had it been previously activated for (normal) contactless use, i.e. with an initial chip-and-PIN transaction or use at an ATM?

Yup, it's not a new card.

Chiltern may well be interested to know about your experience.

Whilst it could be an issue with Chiltern's networking, the fact that barcodes were being accepted without issue suggests otherwise.

Although, I wouldn't expect E-Ticket acceptance to require an active network connection. Ideally it would have one to report scans in real-time, but as long as you've got a set of pubkeys in the last day or so, you should be fine to check tickets.

I have no real confidence it'd go anywhere useful if raised with TfL; someone at the outsourced Novacroft call centre would fob you off with some generic advice and that'd be the end of it.

Mind you, I'm still trying to convince Chiltern they have a poor understanding of the NRCoT after trying to buy an excess (again) and I'm not having a huge amount of luck with that either at the minute! It's just frontline support in general really.

 

[Wallsendmag]

If anything, it's those paying by physical cards that are slower as they tend to have to get them out of their purse/wallet whereas with a phone it's just double click, face ID and go.

You don't even have to do that if your phone is set up for transit mode, just hold it near the reader.

 

[Adam Williams]

You don't even have to do that if your phone is set up for transit mode, just hold it near the reader.

Mmmm, and we've learnt how well that works recently when people are revenue inspected!

 

[MikeWh]

You don't even have to do that if your phone is set up for transit mode, just hold it near the reader.

Just remember that you might get a nasty surprise if you're revenue inspected and just expect to touch on the reader for that.

 

[redreni]

If anything, it's those paying by physical cards that are slower as they tend to have to get them out of their purse/wallet whereas with a phone it's just double click, face ID and go.

Maybe it's different for leisure flows: in peak commuting hours in zone 1 it is definitely the phones that are holding things up, not the physical cards. I pay close attention to the minority of people who disrupt the flow and hold things up.

It's extremely rare, in my observations, for anybody not to have their phone or their physical card out ready, but the biggest problem is people have loaded up their payment card in anticipation of getting to the barrier and by the time they get there, it's timed out and has to be selected again. That, combined with the inherent slowness of Smartphone-based NFC and the ones that just don't work very well, causes nearly all the delay.

Paper tickets, where used, also cause delays, but only because such a high proportion of barriers don't have working card slots, and those that do seem to be programmed to reject a really high proportion of perfectly valid tickets for manual inspection. But there are so few people using these tickets that they're really neither here nor there in terms of overall throughput.

 

[35B]

Maybe it's different for leisure flows: in peak commuting hours in zone 1 it is definitely the phones that are holding things up, not the physical cards. I pay close attention to the minority of people who disrupt the flow and hold things up.

It's extremely rare, in my observations, for anybody not to have their phone or their physical card out ready, but the biggest problem is people have loaded up their payment card in anticipation of getting to the barrier and by the time they get there, it's timed out and has to be selected again. That, combined with the inherent slowness of Smartphone-based NFC and the ones that just don't work very well, causes nearly all the delay.

Paper tickets, where used, also cause delays, but only because such a high proportion of barriers don't have working card slots, and those that do seem to be programmed to reject a really high proportion of perfectly valid tickets for manual inspection. But there are so few people using these tickets that they're really neither here nor there in terms of overall throughput.

Suffice it to say that my peak hour experiences are much less unfavourable to NFC card readers.

 

[Wallsendmag]

Just remember that you might get a nasty surprise if you're revenue inspected and just expect to touch on the reader for that.

That needs fixing

 

[xotGD]

Then you get the family of four with all of their e-tickets on the same phone, who have to perform a game of pass the parcel in order to negotiate the barriers.

No such faff with four paper tickets.

 

[CyrusWuff]

Then you get the family of four with all of their e-tickets on the same phone, who have to perform a game of pass the parcel in order to negotiate the barriers.

No such faff with four paper tickets.

Or just have one person scan the other three through, followed by themself. Simples.

 

[HarryF]

Or just have one person scan the other three through, followed by themself. Simples.

Agreed. I sometimes think people like to make things difficult by trying to pass the phone back over the barrier. Just have the person with the tickets on their phone scan the members of their party through then finally they scan themselves through.

 

[65477]

With 11 pages in this thread, apologies if this has come up before. I am a fan of e-tickets but always print them out as soon as I purchase them.

What I would appeal is an app that catered for the nostalgia market and allowed you to print your ticket in a previous format. The airline style would be easy but edmudson size would probably be too small. I would love to get a ranger/rover printed in the gate fold format.

 

[TUC]

Maybe it's different for leisure flows: in peak commuting hours in zone 1 it is definitely the phones that are holding things up, not the physical cards. I pay close attention to the minority of people who disrupt the flow and hold things up.

It's extremely rare, in my observations, for anybody not to have their phone or their physical card out ready, but the biggest problem is people have loaded up their payment card in anticipation of getting to the barrier and by the time they get there, it's timed out and has to be selected again. That, combined with the inherent slowness of Smartphone-based NFC and the ones that just don't work very well, causes nearly all the delay.

That's a slightly different, London-based issue, to the use of different types of ticket in the rest of the country.

 

[pokemonsuper9]

With 11 pages in this thread, apologies if this has come up before. I am a fan of e-tickets but always print them out as soon as I purchase them.

What I would appeal is an app that catered for the nostalgia market and allowed you to print your ticket in a previous format. The airline style would be easy but edmudson size would probably be too small. I would love to get a ranger/rover printed in the gate fold format.

That is a good idea, I might do it next time I get a long-distance e-ticket (not re-creating the whole format, but just have the code printed off in my wallet like I can do with a bog roll ticket, but without the downside of being unable to access anything else in my wallet without taking it out).
Not sure how usable it will be but it's worth a shot!

 

[sheff1]

If my local supermarket is anything to go by, probably 80% card and 20% phone. With a high proportion of the phone users not having them ready (especially those that also need to open up the digital loyalty card).

Not particularly relevant, but I will chip in anyway. At my local supermarket I would say 30% cash, 50% card and 20% phone. By far this quickest is card, with phone the slowest unless you get someone paying by cash wanting to count the exact amount out - most just hand over some notes..

 

[Hadders]

Cash transactions in supermarkets typically account for around 15% of transactions, and that's in decline.

As for which is fastest it depends on the user. Personally I find using my phone is fastest but them I'm prepared and have it ready in my hand when I'm at the till (or station ticket barrier as appropriate). I would be equally prepared if I was using cash, but cash takes longer to process at the till if change is involved.

Similarly with ticket barriers it depends on how prepared people are as they approach. I'se seen people get to the barrier then faff around on their purse of wallet for their CCST. Equally, I've also seen people faff around finding the ticket on their phone when stood at the barrier. But I've also seen people approach the barrier with phone unlocked and barcode showing on their screen for a speedy experience.

 

[Sonic1234]

Cash transactions in supermarkets typically account for around 15% of transactions, and that's in decline.

That high? Supermarkets and petrol stations were places where I thought cash was a rarity even before Covid.

In supermarkets I see very few physical loyalty cards (which are in many ways similar to e-tickets), even if a card is used to pay.

 

[sheff1]

That high? Supermarkets and petrol stations were places where I thought cash was a rarity even before Covid.

In supermarkets I see very few physical loyalty cards (which are in many ways similar to e-tickets), even if a card is used to pay.

The % breakdown in Croydon will be very different to the breakdown in South Yorkshire.

 

[Hadders]

That high? Supermarkets and petrol stations were places where I thought cash was a rarity even before Covid.

In supermarkets I see very few physical loyalty cards (which are in many ways similar to e-tickets), even if a card is used to pay.

It's probably lower than that now.

Petrol stations are interesting as supermarkets petrol stations normally take cash (there are some card only unstaffed ones out there but they are a very small minoroty). A couple of years ago, I queried why a Petrol Station at a large supermarket near Heathrow that I worked with had very high cash takings. I was told it was taxi drivers because it was one of the few petrol stations in the area that were happy to take cash....

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 24 May 2026 ==

The % breakdown in Croydon will be very different to the breakdown in South Yorkshire.

Indeed. Cash takings are normally higher in the north than in the south east. The reason they are higher in the South East is the 'TfL effect'.

A few years back I used to visit large supermarket depots as part of my work. I'd normally visit the canteen at lunchtime and buy some thing to eat. At depots in the south, when I attempted to pay in cash I'd be met with a very strange look. Yet at depots in the north, waving a card for a purchase of the same value would get a similar strange look. Covid, and encouraging people to pay with cards, has levelled things up a bit but still more cash is spent outside the south east.

 

[81A]

Yes, cash usage seems to very greatly vary by region and even by supermarket (since one of the uses of cash is for budgeting and these users are less likely to shop at the “posh” supermarkets). It wouldn’t surprise me if the 15% were very concentrated in certain areas/supermarkets (with cash at 30% plus) while other areas/supermarkets had very low cash use (say, 5% or even less).

 

[marshlinker]

Most of the budget supermarkets on the South Coast I use all the self service tills are now card only. You can pay with cash at the 1 or 2 manned tills that are opened but you'd be very much in the minority if you did. Rye's fishmarket and several of the towns cafes are card only. I did see that the coffee stand at Bexhill Station had a cash prefered sign in but when I offered a £10 for a cappucino and bun they didnt have the 3 pounds odd change I needed so I paid with card in the end. Id guess we are not very far off a cash extinction event down here.

 

[Hadders]

since one of the uses of cash is for budgeting

Some people use cash as a way of budgeting but that is by no means universal.

 

[redreni]

That's a slightly different, London-based issue, the the use of different types of ticket in the rest of the country.

PAYG is much more popular in and around London than elsewhere, but London isn't the only place with a PAYG scheme. And I use City Thameslink regularly, which has barcode scanners as well as card readers and CCST ticket slots. Most people are using Contactless payment cards (physical or on their phone), but use of ITSO, Oyster and barcode tickets are all commonplace too.

Not a bad place to compare the relative merits of ticket formats for throughput and, therefore, passenger convenience.

 

[Joe Paxton]

[...]
Paper tickets, where used, also cause delays, but only because such a high proportion of barriers don't have working card slots, and those that do seem to be programmed to reject a really high proportion of perfectly valid tickets for manual inspection. But there are so few people using these tickets that they're really neither here nor there in terms of overall throughput.

Or the magstripe hasn't been properly encoded.

In the heydey of magstipe tickets the gateline throughput was pretty impressive.

 

[Haywain]

Or the magstripe hasn't been properly encoded.

Or it has been corrupted, or the gate is faulty. Both of which happen with alarming frequency.