Why I avoid e-tickets

[pokemonsuper9]

All TPE trains have charging points. You were probably not looking in the right place.

Class 185.

They are either by the wall by the window seat, or on the underside of the table by the window.
The table one is near enough completley hidden if you don't know it's there.

 

[sheff1]

Pretty much everyone who's spoken out on this thread against e-tickets either (a) doesn't have a smartphone,

I have just travelled with an eticket on my smartphone but, for reasons already explained, for some journeys I prefer a paper ticket.

Not sure why you seem to think everyone should have the same preferences as you. I am happy with my choices.

 

[Bletchleyite]

I have just travelled with an eticket on my smartphone but, for reasons already explained, for some journeys I prefer a paper ticket.

Not sure why you seem to think everyone should have the same preferences as you. I am happy with my choices.

I'm talking about those coming up with spurious reasons why they're bad. You've just used one, so while it's your preference for paper tickets (and that's fine) you're clearly not a total refusenik.

Some of the arguments - echoing the EV thread - are just bizarre.

 

[sheff1]

They are either by the wall by the window seat, or on the underside of the table by the window.
The table one is near enough completley hidden if you don't know it's there.

Ah that explains it. I was at table and couldn’t see one at my table or the one opposite even though I was specifically looking in view of this thread. I am used to them being clearly signed on other trains.

Are they similarly hidden on the EMR trains - where should I look ?

 

[redreni]

Three pin sockets are really not a suitable solution - who wants to carry a three pin plug around with them?

The three pin sockets typically give out a lot more power than USB-A or USB-C sockets. Which is why you're not going to be able to plug your laptop into the latter.

Except for commuting (where I can charge up in the office) I do normally carry a USB-A or USB-C cable (doesn't really matter which) along with the appropriate mains adapter, because the reality is a significant proportion of places where I may want to charge my phone only have mains sockets (hotel rooms, cafes, pubs, trains). I don't say it's a majority - it doesn't have to be - but if you want to be able to charge your phone, your chances are better if you have a USB cable and a mains adapter. This will remain the case for many years, even though USB-C is becoming the standard for anything new.

And when there's a choice between using the USB socket or the 3-pin, I choose the 3-pin because I know my phone will charge significantly faster. This is particularly the case if you want to grab a coffee somewhere and charge your phone for the short time it takes you to drink it - a mains socket might add three or four times as much battery life in the time available than a typical USB socket.

I do think the correct standard for trains is both (probably 3-pin plus USB-C, these days), particularly on regional or long distance trains where laptop use is to be anticipated.

And I agree with others that providing a way for the customer to charge their phone is important if you want to requisition the customer's electronic device as the medium on which you issue, and they offer up for inspection, tickets.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 22 May 2026 ==

Ah that explains it. I was at table and couldn’t see one at my table or the one opposite even though I was specifically looking in view of this thread. I am used to them being clearly signed on other trains.

Are they similarly hidden on the EMR trains - where should I look ?

The mains charging points in First Class on SWR's 159s are probably the hardest to find sockets I've ever managed to find. There is a sticker assuring you it's there, though I thought at one point the sticker must be spurious because I couldn't find anything.

It's just three holes in a sculpted part of the underside of the table - there's no tell-tale flat plate that you might be able to see or feel the edges of. And you'd have to get on your hands and knees with a torch if you wanted to see it. So in practice it just involves a lot of fumbling around.

 

[35B]

It's close to inconceivable that there would be no means of ticketing other than using a smartphone, even if it's barcodes on till roll or just giving in your name and showing ID.

We do not need to take into account people misusing smartphones, they bring their misfortune onto themselves. Use one properly or buy paper tickets.

I tend to agree, but good businesses work on where people are, not where they should be.

 

[ChrisC]

I haven‘t used TOD collection for some time now. I used to use TOD regularly years ago when travelling using Advance tickets in the days when I got the tickets many weeks in advance to get the lowest fare. I always collected my tickets well before the travel date to avoid any problems.

I still prefer a paper ticket when possible and always buy them from the booking office if there is one or from the TVM if it’s an unstaffed station. Fortunately at the moment my local stations still issue CCST tickets. Therefore for most uncomplicated buy on the day journeys I always prefer to use paper tickets.

If I’m doing a longer more complicated journey with a number of connections, split tickets, unusual routings or journeys involving reserved seats I use the forums ticket buying facility and use e-tickets. I almost always if I’m at home print a copy of the e-ticket.

It did take me a long while to feel happy about using e-tickets but I did become for confident in using them following getting a new phone around 5 year ago. My old phone‘s battery used to quickly lose its charge after a few hours use. I remember having to sit in a coffee shop for an hour charging my phone when using a mobile bus ticket on my old phone!

I have found reading this thread interesting. Obviously people have their reasons for their preferences and both paper tickets and e-tickets should be available. I can, however, see that the case for retaining TOD collection is perhaps not so strong these days. During the last few years I have gained confidence in using e-tickets for rail travel and theatre visits etc. Around 3 years ago whilst on a forum walk, a forum member showed me how to order food and drink in Wetherspoons using their app and I almost always do that now. One thing I still can’t get my head around is using QR codes to order and pay for food in a restaurant, I’ve tried, but it never seems to work for me. I also totally avoid parking in car parks where I have to pay using my phone.

 

[Bletchleyite]

I tend to agree, but good businesses work on where people are, not where they should be.

If that's the case, all ticketing bar e-tickets should be withdrawn forthwith, as that is where the vast majority of people are. Businesses do not have to pander to awkward minorities who do not form protected characteristics, and most businesses do not do so. And in this case those people are provided for by way of paper tickets.

(I don't really think that, but it's the logical conclusion of your point)

 

[blimmo]

If that's the case, all ticketing bar e-tickets should be withdrawn forthwith, as that is where the vast majority of people are. Businesses do not have to pander to awkward minorities who do not form protected characteristics, and most businesses do not do so. And in this case those people are provided for by way of paper tickets.

(I don't really think that, but it's the logical conclusion of your point)

I thought you were suggesting withdrawing all tickets completely since that's certainly where some people are!

 

[35B]

If that's the case, all ticketing bar e-tickets should be withdrawn forthwith, as that is where the vast majority of people are. Businesses do not have to pander to awkward minorities who do not form protected characteristics, and most businesses do not do so. And in this case those people are provided for by way of paper tickets.

(I don't really think that, but it's the logical conclusion of your point)

On the contrary, what I'm stating is that companies need to find ways to appeal to those awkward minorities - not just treating them as a lump.

That means persuasion, not the bludgeon - especially as the resolution for many of those with protected characteristics will overlap with some of those of the "awkward" minorities

 

[marshlinker]

If that's the case, all ticketing bar e-tickets should be withdrawn forthwith, as that is where the vast majority of people are. Businesses do not have to pander to awkward minorities who do not form protected characteristics, and most businesses do not do so. And in this case those people are provided for by way of paper tickets.

(I don't really think that, but it's the logical conclusion of your point)

Is that actually true? Railway useage and income is heavily biased to London and the SE. Id imagine the largest ticketing method there is contactless and Oyster. Of the remaining the outboundary travelcard is a significant product. I seem to remember that a large part of the intercity sectors income maybe 40%? actually originated or terminated on the Southern Region.
Even down here on the southcoast e tickets are very popular but Im not sure that they would be a majority of journeys or income overall in the UK.

 

[AlterEgo]

Why? For me it's the best of both worlds, you get the flexibility of being able to book immediately with all the information you need to hand but none of the fiddlyness of having to get your phone out, switch it on and try to find out which folder it's hidden your e-ticket in whenever there's an inspection .

There seems to be this myth that the only people who use paper tickets are dinosaurs

Not everyone, no.... but if you say you have to *turn your phone on* and *find a folder* to get to your ticket on a train this carbon dates you quite accurately. I reckon you're about 60 given the specific objections you've raised.

If I didn't want to be called a dinosaur I'd know how to add a pass to my wallet. The pass even displays by way of notification when I'm on the journey. One tap and the barcode appears.

 

[walkingsophie]

The passes in wallet don't show the itinerary with the ticket, whilst the pdf copy of it does. With the way I use some tickets, the itineraries are quite relevant, so I do have a folder with all my e-tickets on my phone

 

[JamesT]

The passes in wallet don't show the itinerary with the ticket, whilst the pdf copy of it does. With the way I use some tickets, the itineraries are quite relevant, so I do have a folder with all my e-tickets on my phone

Looking at an old ticket in my google wallet, if I hit the three dots top right I see the information that's on the PDF.

 

[Haywain]

Looking at an old ticket in my google wallet, if I hit the three dots top right I see the information that's on the PDF.

It's a mixed bag - looking at my most recently purchased tickets one has the full itinerary for the two trains involved while the other two only have departure times, in one case even with a change of trains..

 

[Bletchleyite]

On the contrary, what I'm stating is that companies need to find ways to appeal to those awkward minorities - not just treating them as a lump.

They don't, though. Awkward minorities are expensive to deal with and typically are not worth companies' while. And a minority who want to use a smartphone but won't use it correctly are a VERY awkward minority - those people can simply buy a paper ticket from a TVM or booking office.

Try, for instance, placing an order with Amazon paying cash.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 22 May 2026 ==

Is that actually true? Railway useage and income is heavily biased to London and the SE. Id imagine the largest ticketing method there is contactless and Oyster. Of the remaining the outboundary travelcard is a significant product. I seem to remember that a large part of the intercity sectors income maybe 40%? actually originated or terminated on the Southern Region.
Even down here on the southcoast e tickets are very popular but Im not sure that they would be a majority of journeys or income overall in the UK.

I'm pretty sure they are, but our Trainsplit posters might be able to confirm that for certain?

There is suppressed demand for e-tickets by TfL not liking them, but it appears that's well on the way to being solved.

It may be that the Lizzie skews the figures as almost everyone on that is using contactless, however. I think you can rationally exclude it from the figures, though, as it's really a "Tube line" that is National Rail for historical reasons of who operated the non-core parts before.

 

[mmh]

I'm pretty sure they are, but our Trainsplit posters might be able to confirm that for certain?

In another thread Trainsplit have said they have deliberately made ToD delivery a more hidden option, and that at some point they were considering removing it altogether.

That appears to be similar across all the retailers I use (I buy a mixture of e-tickets and ToD, depending on what the ticket is and who it's for.)

A while back I accidentally bought e-tickets on Avanti when I wanted ToD, that was annoying, but it's what the design intends.

 

[Haywain]

That appears to be similar across all the retailers I use

Why would any retailer make it easy for you to do something that incurs greater costs for them?

 

[mmh]

Why would any retailer make it easy for you to do something that incurs greater costs for them?

Why would you think I'd expect them to? Strange question.

 

[Bishops]

Three pin sockets are really not a suitable solution - who wants to carry a three pin plug around with them?

you can get decent 25w 3 pin plug chargers now for a tenner which have a collapsible middle prong so they are a bit more comfortable to fit in a bag or a pocket nowadays. i always have one with me when im on the train

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Einlike-Ch...9088268497-B0BPWRS7VQ-&hvexpln=0&gad_source=1

 

[Adam Williams]

Perhaps someone can explain why Boundary Zone 6 tickets are not enabled as e-tickets

There is no reason other than TOC inaction when it comes to managing the data in RCS.

All technical blockers for this were removed ages ago (back in early 2024) when I asked for these locations to be assigned CRS codes to enable them to be fulfilled to E-Ticket.

 

[35B]

They don't, though. Awkward minorities are expensive to deal with and typically are not worth companies' while. And a minority who want to use a smartphone but won't use it correctly are a VERY awkward minority - those people can simply buy a paper ticket from a TVM or booking office.

Try, for instance, placing an order with Amazon paying cash.

A false comparison, as Amazon have never taken cash. It's how awkward minorities are moved on from one mode to another that marks out, which is where encouragement is also required - especially when the mitigations for certain protected minorities (one of which, I note, is age) will overlap with what the awkward squad are seeking.

 

[CaptainHaddock]

In another thread Trainsplit have said they have deliberately made ToD delivery a more hidden option, and that at some point they were considering removing it altogether.

That appears to be similar across all the retailers I use (I buy a mixture of e-tickets and ToD, depending on what the ticket is and who it's for.)

A while back I accidentally bought e-tickets on Avanti when I wanted ToD, that was annoying, but it's what the design intends.

Exactly, as I posted earlier in the thread the move towards e-tickets is being driven by TOCs and online retailers rather than by public demand. If you remove the option of collecting paper tickets or make it impenetrable to find then of course the majority of your customers will select the e-ticket option!

I have looked online in vain to find any independent survey showing that most passengers prefer e-tickets to paper ones but it seems no such evidence exists. Thus most people will use their own confirmation bias to assume most people think like them and everyone else is wrong!

 

[Bletchleyite]

A false comparison, as Amazon have never taken cash. It's how awkward minorities are moved on from one mode to another that marks out, which is where encouragement is also required - especially when the mitigations for certain protected minorities (one of which, I note, is age) will overlap with what the awkward squad are seeking.

If we consider that the Equality Act requires REASONABLE adjustment, selling paper tickets from booking offices and TVMs would seem to me to
fulfil this.

 

[AlterEgo]

Exactly, as I posted earlier in the thread the move towards e-tickets is being driven by TOCs and online retailers rather than by public demand. If you remove the option of collecting paper tickets or make it impenetrable to find then of course the majority of your customers will select the e-ticket option!

I have looked online in vain to find any independent survey showing that most passengers prefer e-tickets to paper ones but it seems no such evidence exists. Thus most people will use their own confirmation bias to assume most people think like them and everyone else is wrong!

I don't think it's reasonable to accuse other people of confirmation bias when you aren't engaging with the actual data provided by the industry and only latching on to a post you think is agreeable to your point of view! Naturally you dismiss the data and other evidence which doesn't agree with you, like this:

Northern passengers are already moving to modern ticketing, with January figures showing Northern hit a monthly average of almost 78% usage of mobile tickets and reached a single-day high of 89%. In June last year, Northern reported the growing preference for mobile tickets amongst its passengers had led to a reduction of 2.3 million orange ‘magstripe’ tickets across the previous 12 months

I mean this was in a directly quoted reply to you, it's not like you missed it. Sure, maybe you think they are just lying or the TOCs are forcing the vast majority of people to do something they don't want, but the evidence really isn't there to support what you say. Yes, TOCs and retailers are also incentivised to offer etickets because they are cheaper and more sustainable, but that's not a zero-sum game; most passengers do also want that and I can tell you from my time in the industry we got far more complaints about etickets not being available than you'd think.

Increasingly, the generations behind you want everything on their phone. That's because it's convenient for them; the vast majority of people don't have problems with their phone, it's on all the time and recharged overnight.

Finding out that younger people like different things or are au fait with a different way of managing their lives is just part of getting older. I'm 40 this year and continue to be surprised at how many younger people don't carry a wallet or bank cards. But at the same time I'm not trying to wish that away by thinking it's all a conspiracy by someone to get us all to go contactless!

 

[35B]

Exactly, as I posted earlier in the thread the move towards e-tickets is being driven by TOCs and online retailers rather than by public demand. If you remove the option of collecting paper tickets or make it impenetrable to find then of course the majority of your customers will select the e-ticket option!

I have looked online in vain to find any independent survey showing that most passengers prefer e-tickets to paper ones but it seems no such evidence exists. Thus most people will use their own confirmation bias to assume most people think like them and everyone else is wrong!

If you're right about confirmation bias for e-tickets, I think you are also showing your own confirmation bias by discounting the sheer number of people who are willingly and freely choosing e-tickets as their preferred option. The numbers don't lie, even if people are being nudged into the industry's preferred option.

If we consider that the Equality Act requires REASONABLE adjustment, selling paper tickets from booking offices and TVMs would seem to me to
fulfil this.

I suspect you may be in a minority there - I'd anticipate legal action on grounds of direct discrimination for not being able to access those facilities without purchasing in person. I can immediately think of one person who, if he did not have someone (me) to purchase on his behalf, would clearly be discriminated against on grounds of his physical inability to get to and transact at a station in advance of travel. He would admit to the protected characteristic of age (in his 90s), but would have a better case on grounds of disability (deafness, restricted mobility, sight).

Even on economic grounds, if service has to be maintained, there is some advantage to continuing to maximising utilisation of a service rather than limiting it right down.

 

[Haywain]

the move towards e-tickets is being driven by TOCs and online retailers rather than by public demand.

Only in your dreams.

 

[Adam Williams]

make it impenetrable to find

It's not impenetrable to find.

 

[SargeNpton]

From this webpage: https://www.uswitch.com/media-centr...cess-as-11-6-million-neglect-mobile-security/

• Theft in the UK remains a persistent threat, with an estimated 2.6 million incidents recorded last year[1]
• Within this broader trend, mobile phone theft continues to surge, hitting 272,000 reported incidents in the year ending March 2025 - a 16% increase from the previous year[2]
• 11.6 million Britons still have no mobile security features enabled to help protect a stolen phone or secure personal data,[3] despite 85% saying they take precautions when out and about[4]
• Despite the ongoing threat, fewer than one in 10 (8%) who are aware of safety features have activated remote lock or wipe features to protect personal data and financial apps in the event of a theft[5]

Add in those that are mislaid, this is principally why I am reluctant to put everything on a mobile phone. If the phone gets lost/stolen while I am out then I'd prefer to have my credit card and return rail ticket held separately.

 

[Haywain]

Increasingly, the generations behind you want everything on their phone.

It's not just "young" people though. I am one of many who much prefers to be able to use eTickets held on my phone alongside online banking, app payments and all the rest and yet still manage to be alive and active beyond state retirement age.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 22 May 2026 ==

Add in those that are mislaid,

Which are generally reported as stolen, in order that claims can be made on isurance as well as the assumption that a lost phone isn't going to be returned.

I am reluctant to put everything on a mobile phone. If the phone gets lost/stolen while I am out then I'd prefer to have my credit card and return rail ticket held separately.

The fourth bullet point in your quote from uswitch covers that. And it's easy to carry a card separately.