Why I avoid e-tickets

[Haywain]

EMR 222s Do have sockets,

Three pin sockets are really not a suitable solution - who wants to carry a three pin plug around with them?

 

[yorkie]

Presumably when they refer to mobile tickets they actually mean e-tickets, which are something completely different. Doesn't inspire much confidence in their proofreading and/or their knowledge of ticketing.

Absolutely. And yes, I agree; I find it annoying and it doesn't inspire confidence when people who really should know better use the wrong terminology in a publication they really should be proofreading.

(Another bugbear of mine is where so-called experts incorrectly use the term discounted to refer to undiscounted tickets that they happen to think are cheap!)

Three pin sockets are really not a suitable solution - who wants to carry a three pin plug around with them?

For day trips, hardly anyone is going to want to do that.

While USB-C is becoming the universal standard, trains generally provide USB-A.

For longer distance journeys / overnight trips, then I would absolutely have a three pin plug on me. However if 60W USB-C becomes ubiquitous on trains (eventually) then i wouldn't need to do that.

 

[CaptainHaddock]

TPE 185s, Northern 195s and I'm sure EMR 158s all have sockets, so what stock am I missing that causes these issues?



Really? As I said, other than London commuter stock, Chiltern 165s and SWR 159s, what else doesn't have sockets?

Even Northern 150s have USB sockets if I remember correctly.

EMR 170s don't and nor do some of their 158s.

Of course this is another argument for paper tickets, you don't need to worry if your train will have usb connections to charge your phone. And if we all used paper tickets then TOCs would save money by not needing to fit unnecessary features like plug and usb sockets on their trains!

 

[Russel]

Three pin sockets are really not a suitable solution - who wants to carry a three pin plug around with them?

It's still a power outlet, which was the point I was making in my original post...

I always carry a plug with me when traveling, I've tried too many broken USB sockets to not carry one.

EMR 170s don't and nor do some of their 158s.

But they are being fitted as part of the refurbishment.

 

[yorkie]

Yes, there are some people who will not bring battery packs/charging cables and also won't print their e-ticket, who will insist on a paper ticket, but it's very much a minority view among a very small proportion of passengers.

Those people will increasingly be given a flimsy till roll style paper barcode ticket.

TOD/CCST is very much on the decline, and very few passengers choose to use this; most passengers using such tickets do so because they are forced to (e.g. due to TfL insisting on such tickets being issued for use on LU).

 

[TUC]

Three pin sockets are really not a suitable solution - who wants to carry a three pin plug around with them?

Plenty of us do regularly.

 

[Haywain]

Plenty of us do regularly.

I have in the past but prefer a power bank if necessary. But being provided with USB sockets is much better.

 

[Russel]

I have in the past but prefer a power bank if necessary. But being provided with USB sockets is much better.

When they work, agreed, but USB A is just far too fragile for public use which is why loads are broke.

 

[FenMan]

Perhaps someone can explain why Boundary Zone 6 tickets are not enabled as e-tickets or for smartcards. By definition, if purchased as an add on to a Travelcard they're never going to come into contact with TfL infrastructure so I don't see why they need to be issued as paper tickets, and, worse, the TVMs around my way don't sell them, so TOD is the only solution.

 

[sheff1]

TPE 185s, Northern 195s and I'm sure EMR 158s all have sockets, so what stock am I missing that causes these issues?

I have no idea what sort of trains they are. All I know is that people are looking for charging points and there aren't any.
I expected to find one myself originally but soon identified that there weren't any.

If I am carrying any sort of bag it has a power bank in it. Only time I wouldn't have one is if not carrying a bag at all, though sometimes I'd still have one in a pocket even then. And the only time I would be going anywhere by train without a bag would be if going to a concert or similar where they are not permitted.

Well good for you. Probably 80% of my journeys do not involve me carrying a bag.

 

[xotGD]

It must be fairly uncommon for someone to want to book online and also to want to hold a paper ticket.

That's me. I book Advances for my commute, usually a couple of weeks ahead of time, then collect the tickets the next time I pass through Leeds station.

Also for work trips, I book through our corporate travel provider and choose to collect paper tickets.

I appreciate that I'm in a small minority.

 

[pokemonsuper9]

I couple months ago I went to the ticket office at Wigan Wallgate and asked if they could fulfil my TOD for me (a cross-London journey).
They said no, and to use the ticket machine, the ticket machine errored "Unable to fulfil tickets here. Please seek assistance from a member of Staff" and suddenly they were able to fulfil it for me.

I only needed 4 tickets (the 2 travel tickets, and 2 reservations), but because counted place reservations I got a whopping 13 tickets, and a very long receipt.


Vs an E-ticket, which would require no TVM, no Staff, and no "Coach 0 Seat 00"

 

[CaptainHaddock]

It must be fairly uncommon for someone to want to book online and also to want to hold a paper ticket. Most 'traditionalists' who avoid technology wouldn't be booking online in the first place.
[

Why? For me it's the best of both worlds, you get the flexibility of being able to book immediately with all the information you need to hand but none of the fiddlyness of having to get your phone out, switch it on and try to find out which folder it's hidden your e-ticket in whenever there's an inspection .

There seems to be this myth that the only people who use paper tickets are dinosaurs who are terrified of technology; in my experience they're not, they just find having a paper tickets a lot more convenient. As the old saying goes, if it ain't broke, why fix it?

 

[Bletchleyite]

Why? For me it's the best of both worlds, you get the flexibility of being able to book immediately with all the information you need to hand but none of the fiddlyness of having to get your phone out, switch it on and try to find out which folder it's hidden your e-ticket in whenever there's an inspection .

There seems to be this myth that the only people who use paper tickets are dinosaurs who are terrified of technology

Do you own a modern smartphone? I guess not, or you'd know that it doesn't hide your ticket, you add it to the wallet and a simple double tap on the power button (or whatever it is in Android) and it's there. You don't even have to unlock the phone.

Pretty much everyone who's spoken out on this thread against e-tickets either (a) doesn't have a smartphone, or (b) uses it in an extremely odd way, be it saving PDFs in folders (why? Just add it to your wallet), or be it not leaving data on or even not having data all the time.

I get that some people dislike smartphones, but as I said to my parents (and managed to convince them) either don't have one at all and get a dumbphone where the battery lasts a week for a tenner, or have a decent one and use it to its full ability, which is much easier to do than using all these weird approaches to treating as if it was a Windows 3.1 PC in the 1990s. The middle ground of using a poor quality, cheap one or not using one as it is intended just leads to an extremely poor experience to the point that owning one is really just utterly pointless.

 

[Tetchytyke]

couple months ago I went to the ticket office at Wigan Wallgate and asked if they could fulfil my TOD for me (a cross-London journey).
They said no, and to use the ticket machine, the ticket machine errored "Unable to fulfil tickets here. Please seek assistance from a member of Staff" and suddenly they were able to fulfil it for me.

Ticket office staff are generally told not to fulfil ToD tickets unless there's an issue with the machine.

This suits the retailer too, who are charged significantly more for ToD fulfilment at a ticket office compared to a TVM, unless there's a fault with the machine.

 

[35B]

Why? For me it's the best of both worlds, you get the flexibility of being able to book immediately with all the information you need to hand but none of the fiddlyness of having to get your phone out, switch it on and try to find out which folder it's hidden your e-ticket in whenever there's an inspection .

There seems to be this myth that the only people who use paper tickets are dinosaurs who are terrified of technology; in my experience they're not, they just find having a paper tickets a lot more convenient. As the old saying goes, if it ain't broke, why fix it?

A lot of that's about how well the online service works. As a regular LNER user, I tend to buy many of my tickets through them - and their integration of app and Apple Wallet is really convenient to use, so I don't have those issues.

I am always more comfortable with paper in most situations (with printer right by my desk), but my experience is that a well designed phone service is a lot more convenient than digging out printouts from wherever I've stowed them.

We're in a transition period, the numbers show that most people are adopting e-ticketing quite naturally and that it's how most people, most of the time, like to work. There are some exceptions (I need to book tickets for one today), but I don't blame TOCs for trying to do something that's both cheaper and more convenient.

At Covent Garden recently, for the first time in years, I was interested to notice that they have abolished paper tickets (shrinking the box office from a full shop to a small desk in the process), and the free paper cast sheets they used to hand out are now online only. They claim to be saving 5 tonnes per year in paper.

 

[Bletchleyite]

A lot of that's about how well the online service works. As a regular LNER user, I tend to buy many of my tickets through them - and their integration of app and Apple Wallet is really convenient to use, so I don't have those issues.

Quick integration with the Wallet is why I use Trainline for on the day. I was using the WMT badged Trainline for a bit but you had to wait for the email to arrive to add those to the wallet. The badged versions are deliberately more basic.

Odeon cinemas have this right - just pop up the option to add immediately the booking is complete. Almost everyone will want to do so, and anyone who doesn't want to can just press "no" at that point.

 

[Darandio]

Why? For me it's the best of both worlds, you get the flexibility of being able to book immediately with all the information you need to hand but none of the fiddlyness of having to get your phone out, switch it on and try to find out which folder it's hidden your e-ticket in whenever there's an inspection .

There seems to be this myth that the only people who use paper tickets are dinosaurs who are terrified of technology; in my experience they're not, they just find having a paper tickets a lot more convenient. As the old saying goes, if it ain't broke, why fix it?

Surely you don't mean physically switching the phone on? As in the phone was in your pocket switched off? I've never seen anyone do that for any type of transaction or to show something on there, ever.

I expect some sort of retort about batteries on their last legs but that seems to be a problem very much confined to RailUK and specifically when mentioning any type of ticket or railcard on a device.

 

[Tetchytyke]

I use TfW for my ticket purchasing needs because I can generally double-dip on cashback. I get a small pile of Avios through the link and then I get cashback through a scheme attached to my cards. And their integration with Apple Wallet is pretty good too, although I prefer the PDF e-tickets as they're more transportable.

I think this is a situation where people are naturally moving towards e-tickets because most people consider them to be more convenient and more secure. I don't think the railway have had to particularly push people towards e-tickets, not in the way they had to push people towards the much more cumbersome m-tickets.

Why do I like e-tickets? They can be stored on the device and they can be printed out. They're usually emailed as a PDF which means that, if my device dies or I lose my device, then I can log in to my emails on another device and still show my ticket. They're also great for buying tickets for my eldest daughter who doesn't live with me; I can buy the tickets using my card and then send them to her on WhatsApp. I have a copy if anything goes wrong and I send a copy to her mum too. You can't do that with a CCST.

Compared to CCST there isn't, in my opinion, any downside. The downsides that apply to e-tickets (selecting the wrong one for scanning, etc) also apply to CCST. And yes, I've presented the wrong ticket to a guard before and, yes, they've not noticed and stamped the ticket. I've also lost a CCST before now, thankfully I noticed before boarding.

But it's all horses for courses. Some people prefer the certainty of holding a bit of orange cardboard in their hand because it can't run out of battery or have a software failure. I don't understand them but I don't think they should have to justify their position either. But that number of people is getting smaller- even my 72-year-old dad uses e-tickets on his smartphone- and I think CCST will disappear sooner rather than later.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Surely you don't mean physically switching the phone on? As in the phone was in your pocket switched off? I've never seen anyone do that for any type of transaction or to show something on there, ever.

I expect some sort of retort about batteries on their last legs but that seems to be a problem very much confined to RailUK and specifically when mentioning any type of ticket or railcard on a device.

For what it's worth you don't need to power down a phone if the battery is low. If you put it into flight mode (which takes seconds to switch back off) it will consume almost no battery power. On an iPhone I've listened to music for over an hour on 1% in flight mode.

Anyone who keeps a smartphone actually powered off as a matter of course should not own a smartphone, they will not benefit from it used in that way and will simply find its use frustrating. These people should get a dumbphone or not carry one at all.

 

[Tetchytyke]

For what it's worth you don't need to power down a phone if the battery is low. If you put it into flight mode (which takes seconds to switch back off) it will consume almost no battery power.

Yep. If my battery is getting low I turn on flight mode and turn off GPS.

As a separate point, it's worth turning on flight mode if you're going to be in an area with low signal availability (e.g. on top of a mountain, or on a Pendolino). It stops the phone eating through its battery by constantly trying to reconnect to a phone mast.

 

[Bletchleyite]

As a separate point, it's worth turning on flight mode if you're going to be in an area with low signal availability (e.g. on top of a mountain, or on a Pendolino). It stops the phone eating through its battery by constantly trying to reconnect to a phone mast.

Indeed. When using my phone to navigate while hillwalking I always put it in flight mode. Even with heavy GPS use it lasts much longer than when trying to poll for a mast that isn't visible to it.

 

[35B]

For what it's worth you don't need to power down a phone if the battery is low. If you put it into flight mode (which takes seconds to switch back off) it will consume almost no battery power. On an iPhone I've listened to music for over an hour on 1% in flight mode.

Anyone who keeps a smartphone actually powered off as a matter of course should not own a smartphone, they will not benefit from it used in that way and will simply find its use frustrating. These people should get a dumbphone or not carry one at all.

Which takes us back round to the question of the impact of eticketing, and how it does/does not serve users. My late father wouldn't use a mobile, let alone smartphone, so mandatory eticketing would have been a problem for him - but if some travellers are following the playbook of only switching their phones on when they want to use them, that use case does need to be considered and responded to. Even if I also agree with you that people using their phones in the way described by @CaptainHaddock need to learn to use their phones better.

 

[sor]

Late to the ToD queue discussion, but every time I've tried to collect a ticket from the office, they've steered me towards the TVMs instead. Fine at a lot of stations where the machine is a few steps away, less so at stations like St Austell where the single TVM is in the car park and necessitates going over the footbridge. Not great customer service and I'm not sure why they're so willingly putting themselves out of a job by adding to stats that will make the case for closure.

My own personal preference is that smartcards (nb: not necessarily PAYG) should be enabled for all types of ticket, which still gives many of the benefits of etickets but without having to rely on any equipment of my own. That said I'm not precious about it, I'll use an e-ticket, though my most common journey goes through London and has to be on CCST anyway

 

[Bletchleyite]

Which takes us back round to the question of the impact of eticketing, and how it does/does not serve users. My late father wouldn't use a mobile, let alone smartphone, so mandatory eticketing would have been a problem for him - but if some travellers are following the playbook of only switching their phones on when they want to use them, that use case does need to be considered and responded to. Even if I also agree with you that people using their phones in the way described by @CaptainHaddock need to learn to use their phones better.

It's close to inconceivable that there would be no means of ticketing other than using a smartphone, even if it's barcodes on till roll or just giving in your name and showing ID.

We do not need to take into account people misusing smartphones, they bring their misfortune onto themselves. Use one properly or buy paper tickets.

 

[Joe Paxton]

Three pin sockets are really not a suitable solution - who wants to carry a three pin plug around with them?

I specifically got a small folding three-pin plug adapter for just this purpose, as it's far more lightweight than any powerbank. I find it acceptable to carry around in the pockets of trousers or shorts (wouldn't really work for tight trousers/shorts though).

Nonetheless there's part of me that would quite like to ditch carrying around a smartphone, with all its inate attention seeking tendencies.

 

[Tetchytyke]

I'm not sure why they're so willingly putting themselves out of a job by adding to stats that will make the case for closure

As above: they're told to.

And as it costs the retailers more money if ToD is fulfilled by a ticket office clerk, this is something that is monitored...

 

[sheff1]

.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Update. Just travelled on the 0913 TPE from Piccadilly to Sheffield - no charging points. Sure someone will know what type of train that was.

All TPE trains have charging points. You were probably not looking in the right place.

 

[Haywain]

Update. Just travelled on the 0913 TPE from Piccadilly to Sheffield - no charging points. Sure someone will know what type of train that was.

Class 185.