Why I avoid e-tickets

[Bletchleyite]

As soon as you reduce the number of TVMs at my departure station to one, this would put me off using ToD (if I have a choice) unless:

1. I knew the ticket office was due to be open when I arrive to catch my train, so there would be a backup option if the TVM wasn't working; or
2. I expect to have the opportunity - without going out of my way - to collect the ticket before the day of travel.

It is quite unsatisfactory, in my view, that where neither (1) or (2) applies, I have to rely on a single TVM at an outer London station from which 80% or more of the journeys I may wish to make are not e-ticketable.

The solution of course there is to make them e-ticketable, and it does very much seem TfL is finally heading that way.

I've always collected ToD in advance. I don't want to be fretting five minutes before my train. There are issues you sometimes get with it (e.g. tickets failing to drop or printing blank) that would happen even if there were 50 TVMs all piled on top of one another.

 

[crablab]

I collect ToD on my way to work (5 minutes or less before the train ).
On busier days of the week there is always a line at the 3 TVMs by the gateline. It generally moves pretty quickly but does sometimes make the difference between me catching a slightly earlier service or not.

There are many more people tapping or scanning, however. eTickets are the dominant medium now, even amongst commuters who (like myself) are only buying tickets for individual days.

 

[Taunton]

Queues ... Where?

Not in areas where e-tickets are widely available!

Hardly anyone uses TOD from York; the idea that there are large queues is very wide of the mark,

It's actually on the Forum's own ticketing website, and quoted above in Post 2

Why I avoid e-tickets

Moderator note: Split from https://www.railforums.co.uk/threads/when-purchasing-tickets-online-to-collect-at-a-station-why-does-it-ask-which-station-i%E2%80%99m-collecting-the-ticket-from.302167 1778835089 I would advise avoiding TOD (ticket on departure) collection, and use e-tickets...

www.railforums.co.uk

 

[yorkie]

It's actually on the Forum's own ticketing website, and quoted above in Post 2

Why I avoid e-tickets

Moderator note: Split from https://www.railforums.co.uk/threads/when-purchasing-tickets-online-to-collect-at-a-station-why-does-it-ask-which-station-i%E2%80%99m-collecting-the-ticket-from.302167 1778835089 I would advise avoiding TOD (ticket on departure) collection, and use e-tickets...

www.railforums.co.uk

Ah, so it's not based on experience. That explains everything.

The wording may date back from when queues where common, however in areas where e-tickets are not widely available, there could still be queues, so there is an argument to say it should be retained.

This isn't because TOD is popular; for some journeys people have no choice.

Get on almost any train from York and you will hear a beep from the Guard's scanner from 95%+ of passengers.

 

[sheff1]

It's actually on the Forum's own ticketing website, and quoted above in Post 2

Rather strange that someone who tells us there are no queues provides a image which tells us we must leave home earlier to account for queues.

Why would you need to account for queues if there aren't any ?

 

[yorkie]

Rather strange that someone who tells us there are no queues provides a image which tells us we must leave home earlier to account for queues.

Why would you need to account for queues if there aren't any ?

You've misunderstood.

The point being made by @Taunton was that TOD is so popular, and they attempted to evidence this by claiming that there are queues.

However, it transpires that @Taunton wasn't referring to experiencing or witnessing queues, but was actually referring to some abstract (and long-standing) text stating that time should be allowed to collect tickets, in case of queues.

To be clear, in case anyone is in doubt: TOD is not in any way "popular"; any queues are due to two things: 1) a reduction in the number of machines (due to falling demand) and 2) people being forced to use TOD, e.g. due to the journey involving cross-London transfers or similar.

There is zero prospect of queues at stations such as York, where almost all passengers are on barcode tickets, but at somewhere in the London area, where Travelcards etc are popular, could have queues at busier periods.

 

[AlterEgo]

Rather strange that someone who tells us there are no queues provides a image which tells us we must leave home earlier to account for queues.

Why would you need to account for queues if there aren't any ?

I don't think the assertion was ever that there are no queues. That's like saying you need to allow time for traffic when driving. It doesnt mean you'll get delayed, in fact I rarely am by traffic - but I'd still leave earlier to account for it.

This is not a very productive discussion. If you like paper tickets that's fair enough, but that's just your preference. Most people have a different preference and that's okay too. The facts are that the vast majority of passengers choose an e-ticket when they have that choice and ToD is becoming increasingly irrelevant. The defensiveness of some users around using paper tickets is a bit strange to be honest.

 

[CaptainHaddock]

The facts are that the vast majority of passengers choose an e-ticket when they have that choice and ToD is becoming increasingly irrelevant.

Still awaiting proof of that. The argument that most people use e-tickets because when you're on a train you hear the guard's ticket checker beeping quite a lot is only anecdotal evidence!

 

[Sonic1234]

Ticket offices and TVMs rarely have queues now, if there's anyone using them it's usually one person.

TOCs still advertise their websites/apps with "avoid the queues" - there isn't a queue! I've seen the ironic situation in an outer London surburban station of the bored ticket office clerk, who probably hasn't sold a ticket all day, sat next to an "avoid the queues, buy online" poster. It should say "help us with our staff boredom problem, put your phone down, try the ticket office!"

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 20 May 2026 ==

Interestingly when the question was posed on this forum a few years ago, the result of the poll was that two-thirds of posters preferred paper tickets to e-tickets.

Forum users will use "niche" tickets and understand how to get the best value from the ticketing system. How many "normals" would buy a ranger, rover or U Zone ticket? Or use a paper ticket within London because break of journey is better value than paying twice on Oyster. A lot of people I imagine would consider doing cross-London as too complex.

 

[bubieyehyeh]

My local station often has 5-6 people queuing for the ticket machine at around 7.15am weekday morning. I assume they are buying London travelcards, During ticket checks I think its maybe 60% people seems to be using e-tickets, but the 40% generally seem to be older people.

 

[Russel]

Still awaiting proof of that. The argument that most people use e-tickets because when you're on a train you hear the guard's ticket checker beeping quite a lot is only anecdotal evidence!

Ah come on, you only need to look around next time there is a ticket check to see what a large percentage of people are using, and it isn't a piece of paper, especially on long distance journeys.

The big reduction in number of ticket machines at stations backs this up too.

 

[Adam Williams]

It's actually on the Forum's own ticketing website

The wording may date back

The wording (which I unfortunately have to take the blame for) is indeed years old at this point and was simply lifted almost "as-is" from the old site onto the new look site.

Certainly it will be true at some stations, but primarily those where there is perhaps only a ticket office and a higher proportion of ToD-only tickets. The prevalence of this is obviously decreasing rapidly over time.

In theory you don't need a physical card to pick tickets up anymore either, but I'm not convinced Cubic got that memo. Certainly I think there are still some non-compliant TVMs out in the wild such that we can't safely advise not taking a card yet....

 

[AlterEgo]

Still awaiting proof of that. The argument that most people use e-tickets because when you're on a train you hear the guard's ticket checker beeping quite a lot is only anecdotal evidence!

Cutting-edge rail ticket technology to be trialled across the Midlands and North

Passengers can sign up for digital rail ticket trials on East Midlands Rail and Northern trains.

www.gov.uk

Some stats included within:

Northern passengers are already moving to modern ticketing, with January figures showing Northern hit a monthly average of almost 78% usage of mobile tickets and reached a single-day high of 89%. In June last year, Northern reported the growing preference for mobile tickets amongst its passengers had led to a reduction of 2.3 million orange ‘magstripe’ tickets across the previous 12 months.

That's probably a good benchmark given nearly every single flow there is e-ticketable. It'll be a lot lower in London and the South East given the inability to e-ticket a vast number of journeys owing to cross London transfers. ToD is definitely on the way out, and overwhelmingly where passengers have a choice they choose to have e-tickets, mostly for familiarity and convenience. If TfL went to e-ticket tomorrow most of the paper ticket journeys in the London and South East area would convert to e-ticket.

This trend was obvious even ten years ago when I worked in the industry and retailers report a similar trend when it comes to consumer choice. ToD in particular is becoming far less relevant and there are fewer ticket machines than ever as a result. It's an expensive system to maintain and not very environmentally friendly, with ticket machines being plugged in all day every day and paper being used to deliver the actual ticket.

 

[Kilopylae]

TVMs increasingly don't have a role at all.

They serve the role at rural and suburban stations of not allowing the line to lapse into buy on board being allowed by default. The "nominal" ticket machine needs to be there to force people to buy on their phones! Otherwise it's "pay when challenged" on the basis you wanted to use your card (or cash).

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 20 May 2026 ==

The wording (which I unfortunately have to take the blame for) is indeed years old at this point and was simply lifted almost "as-is" from the old site onto the new look site.

Do you still have the row of sad faces as bullet points if the customer tries to choose TOD? I thought they were fun

 

[Adam Williams]

Do you still have the row of sad faces as bullet points if the customer tries to choose TOD? I thought they were fun

Yeah, me too - @JoshD14 disagreed, sadly and we ended up with the boring cards instead!

 

[Sonic1234]

It'll be a lot lower in London and the South East given the inability to e-ticket a vast number of journeys owing to cross London transfers.

Don't forget GTR not maintaining the data, so you get random paper-only tickets. Also GTR only arrange ticket acceptance for "paper ticket holders", so there is an incentive to go for paper. Not that this will be many people's consideration, but if you're at Finsbury Park, the Thameslink core is up the creek and you want to get to South London, with a paper ticket you can get on the Victoria Line but not with an e-ticket.

You're always going to have a TVM, unless you move back to onboard sales or buying at the destination. Are we at the point where you could have stations with no TVM, and it would be more economical to give anyone wanting a paper ticket a potential free ride?

Anyone know what the e-ticket refusal rate for online sales is i.e. those journeys with are e-ticketable but the customer actively chooses a paper ticket?

 

[alistairlees]

Still awaiting proof of that. The argument that most people use e-tickets because when you're on a train you hear the guard's ticket checker beeping quite a lot is only anecdotal evidence!

About 90% of our customers (all online) choose e-tickets. Online sales account for a bit over half of all ticket sales. The rest is pay as you go, ticket vending machines and station booking offices. Many stations and TVMs now also produce barcode tickets.

 

[styles]

If ToD machines were removed, I would just end up getting more free journeys because I would expect to buy a ticket on board and quite often the guard doesn't come down in time for me alighting.

I'm generally ok with e-tickets because I can print them. But it's not much use if I'm not at home when I buy the ticket.

m-tickets can get in the bin though.

 

[Russel]

If ToD machines were removed, I would just end up getting more free journeys because I would expect to buy a ticket on board and quite often the guard doesn't come down in time for me alighting.

I'm generally ok with e-tickets because I can print them. But it's not much use if I'm not at home when I buy the ticket.

m-tickets can get in the bin though.

Why would you not buy a ticket on your phone?

 

[Kilopylae]

Why would you not buy a ticket on your phone?

I've managed to run out of mobile data before; it does happen. Once had to wait to get the free bus WiFi to load and show my bus season pass - chewing the end of my fingernails off there. If I had my contactless card but I ran out of data on a hike or something I would have to buy on board starting at a rural station.

Obviously an edge case of course (and not an impediment to e-Tickets bought at home or on station WiFi).

 

[Russel]

I've managed to run out of mobile data before; it does happen. Once had to wait to get the free bus WiFi to load and show my bus season pass - chewing the end of my fingernails off there. If I had my contactless card but I ran out of data on a hike or something I would have to buy on board starting at a rural station.

Obviously an edge case of course (and not an impediment to e-Tickets bought at home or on station WiFi).

To a point, I understand this, but many data plans are very generous these days and given the popularity of e-tickets, I'd suggest it's only a minor issue.

 

[walkingsophie]

I do often go without mobile data, and only buy data whenever I need to to save money. I also often go to stations that I have not been to before, and ticket machines there are sometimes the only way I can buy a ticket given I have no data

 

[Haywain]

If ToD machines were removed

I think you mean a Ticket Vending Machines. ToD is the collection of tickets bought online, just one of the functions of a TVM.

 

[johncrossley]

It's something that is complicated by the existence of multiple retail channels. If there was just a gbrtickets.com and nothing else, you could simply log in using your username and password at a TVM, retrieve all your e-tickets and print any you wanted with a few taps, even if you've been mugged of everything bar your clothing.

Do any of the European nationalised railways offer that, I wonder?

Ticket machine collection seems to be less popular in other countries compared to here, and some countries don't even offer it, particularly small countries where most travellers don't have reservations. For example, Switzerland and the Netherlands.

 

[Russel]

I do often go without mobile data, and only buy data whenever I need to to save money. I also often go to stations that I have not been to before, and ticket machines there are sometimes the only way I can buy a ticket given I have no data

Possibly for another thread, but given the likes of Smarty will give you 5gb of data for about £6 a month, I'm not convinced buying data as and when is saving you money.

 

[Darandio]

I do often go without mobile data, and only buy data whenever I need to to save money. I also often go to stations that I have not been to before, and ticket machines there are sometimes the only way I can buy a ticket given I have no data

There is often talk of edge cases on this forum, this is possibly as far on the edge as we can get in 2026.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Ticket machine collection seems to be less popular in other countries compared to here, and some countries don't even offer it, particularly small countries where most travellers don't have reservations. For example, Switzerland and the Netherlands.

As it's quicker to buy a ticket from a TVM than collect one (fewer taps), there's little point in ToD if you aren't purchasing an Advance fare or a walk-up with reservations if you know the train will be busy. And with the refund rule changes, you're probably best making a reservation online using the TPE site (or the LNER site if involving LNER) and just buying the ticket from the TVM if you aren't going to want an e-ticket.

On railways that basically don't have Advance fares* or seat reservations** it would essentially serve no purpose at all.

* SBB sort of does but they're online only and I suspect a fairly niche purchase
** Some SBB services do, but aside from groups of over 10 (I think) who can (and indeed are required to) reserve on any train or bus they use as a group, it's only the IC Geneva-St Gallen services and international trains that even offer individual reservations in Switzerland, and the former are such long double deck trains that there's just no point, you will get a seat.

 

[walkingsophie]

Possibly for another thread, but given the likes of Smarty will give you 5gb of data for about £6 a month, I'm not convinced buying data as and when is saving you money.

My data usage is usually a few GB a few times a month, often at times where I can decide the exact day where I use the data, and the data running out is not a problem. So I use a similar data bundle, let it run out for the month, and renew it the next month at a time when I actually need data.

 

[Russel]

My data usage is usually a few GB a few times a month, often at times where I can decide the exact day where I use the data, and the data running out is not a problem. So I use a similar data bundle, let it run out for the month, and renew it the next month at a time when I actually need data.

Seems a lot of effort to go to given I can't see it actually saving any money.

 

[johncrossley]

Possibly for another thread, but given the likes of Smarty will give you 5gb of data for about £6 a month, I'm not convinced buying data as and when is saving you money.

If you only need data for buying train tickets on the move and therefore don't care about keeping the number then the cheapest option is to take advantage of introductory offers from Lebara (for example) and simply get another SIM when the offer expires. Through the Money Saving Expert site, they tend to cost around £1 to £2 per month. This works best with a dual SIM phone so you can still receive calls on a permanent number.