Why I avoid e-tickets

[saismee]

If that was being done routinely I would have had a letter by now because I have rather a lot of MKC <-> BLY singles to my name almost all of which only have a scan at one end. These are used to extend existing tickets, of course, but as I buy almost all my long distance tickets on Trainsplit and almost all my short distance on the day ones on Trainline the data probably wouldn't usefully show them that.

It's about multiple scans on one ticket, not missing scans. It's more like showing an old period return by mistake and having it be scanned.

 

[ainsworth74]

Until railcards are available as a pdf I'll be sticking with plastic so paper tickets are automatically more reliable.

That assumes you can get a paper railcard...

The 26-30 is only available as a digital railcard...

 

[Bletchleyite]

It's about multiple scans on one ticket, not missing scans. It's more like showing an old period return by mistake and having it be scanned.

Easy to avoid - delete the old passes once used.

 

[saismee]

Easy to avoid - delete the old passes once used.

Believe me, people do  not do this. In my case it was intentional, though non-fraudulent (and resolved).

 

[sheff1]

This probably makes sense, because people very, very rarely do overnight breaks of journey even where allowed,

I frequently do overnight breaks of journey - sometimes in both directions. Always use card tickets for them due to the reason stated.

Try replacing a normal off peak CCST when you've lost it. I rest my case for eTickets

I have never, in over 60 years, lost a card ticket so your "case" hasn't convinced me.

 

[Haywain]

I have never, in over 60 years, lost a card ticket so your "case" hasn't convinced me.

That obviously means it can't possibly happen.

 

[sheff1]

That obviously means it can't possibly happen.

Of course I could lose a ticket but I could also have my phone die on me. I am more confident about retaining a physical ticket, as I always have done, than the robustness of a phone over which I have no control. And before you tell me I can print an eticket - I do not have a printer.

When travelling by train in France or Sweden I am able to print an eticket* from a TVM at the station. If the same was possible here that would be a much stronger case for using etickets than the one in the post I quoted.

* As an aside I can also print the French equivalent of the Senior Railcard at the TVM

 

[Kilopylae]

I don’t think there will ever be a national smartcard system.

I hate to admit it, because I rather liked it, but the whole vision of putting everything onto a multimodal ITSO card is now very twenty-tensy. The world has moved on from smartcards to mobile phones.

The use of Oyster cards dropped by a third between 2020 and 2025 - it's now less than one in five PAYGO travellers on TfL that uses one.

It sucks but it is what it is.

Ironically if tickets are named you can do away with the requirement to show a railcard (and enforce having the Railcard at the point of sale and therefore prevent most of the Railcard posts in disputes...).

Part of my job is to book train tickets for people outside of our organisation, travelling to large events; this would make my life a living hell!

 

[SargeNpton]

I hate to admit it, because I rather liked it, but the whole vision of putting everything onto a multimodal ITSO card is now very twenty-tensy. The world has moved on from smartcards to mobile phones.

The use of Oyster cards dropped by a third between 2020 and 2025 - it's now less than one in five PAYGO travellers on TfL that uses one.

Or that people are using their physical credit/debit card to tap in and out.

 

[realaledrinker]

Some retailers already do.



Hardly anyone does overnight BoJ anyway. I don't propose ending that right, but it wouldn't be a great loss in the scheme of things particularly if it came with single leg pricing to allow a journey to be broken overnight one way but not the other, or in different places in each direction. Its impact would certainly be a lot lower than the new refund policy.

I recently went down to a footie match in London that didn’t finish until after 7pm and with no viable way to get home same day due to West Coast track closures. £200 hotel in London or a BoJ £50 Premier Inn in Wycombe was a no-brainer.

 

[Bletchleyite]

I recently went down to a footie match in London that didn’t finish until after 7pm and with no viable way to get home same day due to West Coast track closures. £200 hotel in London or a BoJ £50 Premier Inn in Wycombe was a no-brainer.

That people on here occasionally break journeys overnight does not make it a non-niche activity. I'm going to bet that the majority of "normals" don't even know that you can.

Same day break on the other hand (popping out for a smoke/lunch/whatever between trains) is totally reasonable and it's silly that it's barred on any tickets at all really aside from the niche situation below.

Irritatingly the one time when I would find it useful (when doing long distance journeys to Scotland) it's not allowed to avoid undercutting Manchester-London peak fares. (Though I'd rather that than they apply the Manchester restriction codes to Scotland...)

 

[CaptainHaddock]

This really isn't true, I have responded to hundreds of customer complaints about E-Ticket unavailability. Usually due to poor RCS data quality, London or one of the other problematic operators (Merseyrail, ScotRail). Customers don't want to use paper tickets, overwhelmingly. The people in this thread are simply not representative of the overwhelming majority of the travelling public - sorry.

Interestingly when the question was posed on this forum a few years ago, the result of the poll was that two-thirds of posters preferred paper tickets to e-tickets.

Preferred ticket format poll (paper ticket vs smartphone app etc.)

Off the back of this thread ... https://www.railforums.co.uk/threads/are-e-tickets-the-way-forward.231423/ I will be interested to see the results!

www.railforums.co.uk

Four years on it's clear that there is still a demand for paper tickets, so as long as both paper tickets and e-tickets continue to be offered as options, then everyone's catered for. But should paper tickets be phased out and e-tickets became the sole option I think many people would be decidedly unhappy.

 

[Haywain]

Interestingly when the question was posed on this forum a few years ago, the result of the poll was that two-thirds of posters preferred paper tickets to e-tickets.

Preferred ticket format poll (paper ticket vs smartphone app etc.)

Off the back of this thread ... https://www.railforums.co.uk/threads/are-e-tickets-the-way-forward.231423/ I will be interested to see the results!

www.railforums.co.uk

Four years on it's clear that there is still a demand for paper tickets, so as long as both paper tickets and e-tickets continue to be offered as options, then everyone's catered for. But should paper tickets be phased out and e-tickets became the sole option I think many people would be decidedly unhappy.

I can’t see what the results of that poll were but I’m not sure there was an option that truly represents e-tickets anyway.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Interestingly when the question was posed on this forum a few years ago, the result of the poll was that two-thirds of posters preferred paper tickets to e-tickets.

The preference of the Forum rarely reflects the preference of the general public. In part that is because paper tickets often allow greater flexibliity and avoid issues with staff when exercising such flexibliity at the edges of validity of tickets, something the general public just isn't interested in, and in part because the demographic of traditional Web forums tends to be older (the same question asked on a railway Instagram might well get a very different result, even among young enthusiasts). The preference of the general public can easily be seen by the number of "beeps" as someone passes through any train checking tickets. The only exception now is trains where most people will be on Travelcards or crossing London, where e-tickets are not offered, but those will increasingly be using contactless.

 

[jfollows]

I have no problems with ticket formats, I’ve used them all, but when I know what ticket I want I vastly prefer the buying process of asking a human for the ticket I want and being given it. I dislike the journey planner nonsense on ticket machines or online purchases.
It happens that I feel naked going out without a watch or a wallet, so I have never personally had a problem with paper tickets, but the comments here just demonstrate that we’re all different and it’s just that trying to make one solution work for everyone that isn’t good. Currently there’s a choice and that’s fine with me.

 

[Purple Train]

I have no problems with ticket formats, I’ve used them all, but when I know what ticket I want I vastly prefer the buying process of asking a human for the ticket I want and being given it. I dislike the journey planner nonsense on ticket machines or online purchases.
It happens that I feel naked going out without a watch or a wallet, so I have never personally had a problem with paper tickets, but the comments here just demonstrate that we’re all different and it’s just that trying to make one solution work for everyone that isn’t good. Currently there’s a choice and that’s fine with me.

Well said, and long may that choice be available.

I prefer to use CCSTs because I live in TfL-land where the barriers aren't set up to accept e-Tickets, I hate having to get my phone out to do things, I have a perfectly usable ticket wallet, and I collect the things anyway. The one thing I do refuse to use is a digital railcard, but that's based on my experience a few years ago when my mother (who prefers e-Tickets) bought a digital Senior Railcard for my grandmother and then the app on her phone stopped working right before a long-distance trip. Obviously I accept that my opinion and my preferred way of doing things is neither the gospel truth nor the way in which everybody must be mandated to do things.

And there has been an occasion when I have found it very useful to use an e-Ticket. I was once travelling from Windsor to Teddington, when the train from Windsor and Eton Riverside was abruptly cancelled due to a fault with the level crossing at Datchet. Immediately I ran up to the castle and leapt aboard a number 8 bus, which I knew would connect with the train at Egham. However, since I had a ticket from Windsor, and Egham is on a different line, my ticket wouldn't let me into the station, and I wasn't sure if ticket acceptance would be in place. With an expected connection time of around three minutes from bus to train, the only thing for it was to buy an e-Ticket on the bus - which let me into the station without the faff of trying to find and use a TVM at an unfamiliar station. Did this experience immediately convert me to e-Tickets? No! But it's nice to know that the option's available, and have the choice and the freedom to use either according to my own wishes, and not according to the whims of fashion or of ticket retailers.

 

[Taunton]

the outdated TOD system

How can it be both outdated, but sufficiently popular that there are large queues for it, at the same time?

 

[Bletchleyite]

How can it be both outdated, but sufficiently popular that there are large queues for it, at the same time?

Because, among the general population, the bulk of the people doing it are those forced to do it because e-tickets aren't offered on the flow they have booked.

The vast majority of people these days prefer e-tickets, primarily on mobile phones (even seeing printed ones is rare these days).

 

[Haywain]

How can it be both outdated, but sufficiently popular that there are large queues for it, at the same time?

Large queues?

 

[sh24]

Large queues?

Quite. I don’t see that many people using ticket machines now, let alone queues. Waterloo 10 or 15 years ago would have a 10-20 deep queue for the machines. Now you can expect to have a choice of most of them on demand.

 

[Haywain]

Quite. I don’t see that many people using ticket machines now, let alone queues. Waterloo 10 or 15 years ago would have a 10-20 deep queue for the machines. Now you can expect to have a choice of most of them on demand.

The last few times I've been through King's Cross I've not seen any TVMs being used. We used to have staff who were dedicated to looking after the machines full time.

 

[yorkie]

How can it be both outdated, but sufficiently popular that there are large queues for it, at the same time?

Where?

Not in areas where e-tickets are widely available!

Hardly anyone uses TOD from York; the idea that there are largue queues is very wide of the mark, and it's rare to see anyone collecting old-style tickets. Those that do, are probably making journeys that extend beyond King's Cross, but not through choice!

 

[Russel]

And I am very reluctant to rely on my phone as the only proof that I have a ticket. You only have to take a quick glance at the disputes section on f this forum to see the problems this causes.

I wouldn't read too much into the number of people claiming they have a ticket but their phone battery just happens to have died etc when it comes to fines.

 

[AlterEgo]

How can it be both outdated, but sufficiently popular that there are large queues for it, at the same time?

There aren't large queues for ToD in my experience. Most people who get ToD are probably forced to, like I am every time I cross London - that accounts for about a third of my bookings. That's alright I suppose, but I've never had to queue to print a ticket.

 

[NeilCr]

Where?

Not in areas where e-tickets are widely available!

Hardly anyone uses TOD from York; the idea that there are largue queues is very wide of the mark, and it's rare to see anyone collecting old-style tickets. Those that do, are probably making journeys that extend beyond King's Cross, but not through choice!

I suppose it depends what you describe as long

I've spent whole mornings at both Ramsgate and Margate stations. At times - mostly a while before trains are due - there have been reasonable queues at both ticket offices. Probably the longest I have seen is 10 people. But - from observation - a number weren't buying ToDs. Seemed like queries etc as well

My partner is partially sighted and will not use e tickets. She prefers having a piece of card she can tuck in her wallet and find easily.

 

[AlterEgo]

I've spent whole mornings at both Ramsgate and Margate stations. At times - mostly a while before trains are due - there have been reasonable queues at both ticket offices. Probably the longest I have seen is 10 people. But - from observation - a number weren't buying ToDs. Seemed like queries etc as well

You don't buy a ToD at the ticket office. You buy online and collect it from a machine, that is why it is called Ticket On Departure. All you're describing here is people using a ticket office.

 

[Bletchleyite]

There aren't large queues for ToD in my experience. Most people who get ToD are probably forced to, like I am every time I cross London - that accounts for about a third of my bookings. That's alright I suppose, but I've never had to queue to print a ticket.

At busy times there are often queues (I'd not call them long ones!) for business travellers retrieving Anytime Day Travelcards from the machines where their employer mandates the use of a particular system to purchase it. This is a South East thing, though, and the TVMs in places like Manchester Piccadilly mostly appear to be completely unused these days.

 

[NeilCr]

You don't buy a ToD at the ticket office. You buy online and collect it from a machine, that is why it is called Ticket On Departure. All you're describing here is people using a ticket office.

Sorry - misunderstanding

To add to that then - on those same days more people use the ticket office than the machines. At Ramsgate - in particular - the machines didn’t seem to be used much which supports the e ticket view

But, I’d also say that more people bought tickets from the offices than the machines - suspect annual figures may well show different - but just my observations

 

[Bletchleyite]

But, I’d also say that more people bought tickets from the offices than the machines - suspect annual figures may well show different - but just my observations

I suspect we are indeed getting to the point where those who know what they want and are happy to pay card will purchase online, while those who don't know what they want or wish to pay cash will use the booking office where present, and TVMs increasingly don't have a role at all. You still need them for niche cases and for when the booking office is closed and someone wants to pay card but for whatever reason not use their phone and for Promise to Pay and similar, but one per station is increasingly likely to be enough, maybe two at most somewhere like Euston or Manchester Piccadilly.

Note how airport ticket counters are now near enough not a thing any more...

 

[redreni]

As soon as you reduce the number of TVMs at my departure station to one, this would put me off using ToD (if I have a choice) unless:

1. I knew the ticket office was due to be open when I arrive to catch my train, so there would be a backup option if the TVM wasn't working; or
2. I expect to have the opportunity - without going out of my way - to collect the ticket before the day of travel.

It is quite unsatisfactory, in my view, that where neither (1) or (2) applies, I have to rely on a single TVM at an outer London station from which 80% or more of the journeys I may wish to make are not e-ticketable.