Why I avoid e-tickets

[Royston Vasey]

I love my paper tickets, but...

...at least I admit to being one of these people!

The vast majority of people I know find E-Tickets far more convenient than paper tickets. They are used to using them since COVID, don't need to faff about with a TVM with the most unusable touchscreen you've seen, and in an increasingly digital era they are simply used to having their lives on their phones.

Some people won't agree, but they (and I) are not in the majority of passengers. You just have to take a train with a staff member on board and listen to the number of beeps when tickets are checked to realise that.

Niche and proud

 

[Hadders]

It seems to me that the discussion here is more about CCST v barcode tickets.

We know that barcode tickets can be displayed on a phone or on paper. That is a customer choice. Tickets purchased at a ticket office are moving in the direction of being barcodes on ‘bog roll’ rather than CCST. TVMs will move towards barcodes printed on paper at some point. TfL remains a reason for CCST to soldier on but I understand that at some point their systems will be updated to accept barcode tickets, allowing the complete removal of CCST.

Traditionalists on here like CCST (and I am one of them) but the world moves on. Go to a sporting event, cinema or theatre and it’s almost certain you will be using a barcode to gain entry. You can present the barcode on a physical ticket or piece of paper but many prefer to show the barcode on their phone.

Train tickets are moving towards barcodes.

 

[Royston Vasey]

It seems to me that the discussion here is more about CCST v barcode tickets.

We know that barcode tickets can be displayed on a phone or on paper. That is a customer choice. Tickets purchased at a ticket office are moving in the direction of being barcodes on ‘bog roll’ rather than CCST. TVMs will move towards barcodes printed on paper at some point. TfL remains a reason for CCST to soldier on but I understand that at some point their systems will be updated to accept barcode tickets, allowing the complete removal of CCST.

Traditionalists on here like CCST (and I am one of them) but the world moves on. Go to a sporting event, cinema or theatre and it’s almost certain you will be using a barcode to gain entry. You can present the barcode on a physical ticket or piece of paper but many prefer to show the barcode on their phone.

Train tickets are moving towards barcodes.

Of course there's no reason with some redesign of the printing format and possibly resolution, an orange piece of cardboard that has origin, destination, ticket type, date and reservations printed on it and encoded in a magnetic stripe to open a LU ticket barrier, can't also have a scannable Aztec code printed on it for scanning onboard and at gates.

Bog roll is cheaper than magnetised coupons, but as long as TfL don't invest, the railway cannot completely abandon CCST. Living in the South East with a village shack of a local station with all trains running to or from London, I expect our ticket machines will be among the last to fully convert. I know the (GA) Cambridge machines already print bog roll for local journeys, but I assume they also print CCST for London tickets.

 

[MrJeeves]

Of course there's no reason with some redesign of the printing format and possibly resolution, an orange piece of cardboard that has origin, destination, ticket type, date and reservations printed on it and encoded in a magnetic stripe to open a LU ticket barrier, can't also have a scannable Aztec code printed on it for scanning onboard and at gates.

You will never get the same information currently on a CCST with a scannable barcode (with security features) like those present on PRT or E-Tickets.

It is simply not possible.

 

[Belperpete]

When I pay for my shopping by phone, collect reward points with a phone app, access my bank account by phone, order takeaways by phone and pay for bus travel by phone, why would I want a paper rail ticket?

Ever heard of the saying about putting all your eggs in one basket? People who rely on their phone for so much are making themselves very vulnerable if they are parted from their phone for some reason. Consider the effect of losing your phone at a critical moment (such as on the way to the airport to go on holiday).

Many years ago I was mugged of all my bank cards in the run up to Christmas. I was effectively without any way of either accessing cash or buying anything by card, until after the banks had reissued my cards, after Christmas. That experience made me very wary about being in the same situation again.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 17 May 2026 ==

It seems to me that the discussion here is more about CCST v barcode tickets.

We know that barcode tickets can be displayed on a phone or on paper. That is a customer choice. Tickets purchased at a ticket office are moving in the direction of being barcodes on ‘bog roll’ rather than CCST. TVMs will move towards barcodes printed on paper at some point. TfL remains a reason for CCST to soldier on but I understand that at some point their systems will be updated to accept barcode tickets, allowing the complete removal of CCST.

Traditionalists on here like CCST (and I am one of them) but the world moves on. Go to a sporting event, cinema or theatre and it’s almost certain you will be using a barcode to gain entry. You can present the barcode on a physical ticket or piece of paper but many prefer to show the barcode on their phone.

Train tickets are moving towards barcodes.

You are confusing two issues. I am quite happy with barcode tickets, and I am quite happy with bog roll tickets (although I admit I prefer CCST). What I am not happy with is e-tickets, that can only be displayed on a mobile phone or the like (unless you happen to have access to a printer after you have bought the ticket). If there was a facility whereby I could get my e-ticket printed out when I got to the station I would be happy, but as far as I am aware that facility is not available.

I have found my phone running low on battery on a long train journey sufficiently often that I am not prepared to rely on my phone as the means of holding my ticket. Only last week I found on boarding that I had forgotten to put my phone on charge the previous night, and of course the charging sockets on the train weren't working (nor was the internet). If I had had an e-ticket I would have been screwed.

I also understand that mobile phone snatching is fast becoming the theft of choice, particularly in the major cities.

Added to which, I have managed to misplaced my phone countless times in the past. Happily I have usually managed to recover it most times, but again in the interim I would have been screwed.

Combine that will the other issues with e-tickets previously discussed, and as far as I am concerned, the small benefit of not needing to get your ticket at the station, is massively outweighed by all the negatives.

I am aware that those people who rely on their mobiles for every aspect of their lives will regard me as a bit of a dinosaur. But as in my previous post, I suspect they don't realise how vulnerable they are making themselves. Those of a certain age will remember "filofax bereavement syndrome", when those who relied on Filofaxes to organise their lives lost them.

 

[Railguy1]

Ever heard of the saying about putting all your eggs in one basket? People who rely on their phone for so much are making themselves very vulnerable if they are parted from their phone for some reason. Consider the effect of losing your phone at a critical moment (such as on the way to the airport to go on holiday).

Many years ago I was mugged of all my bank cards in the run up to Christmas. I was effectively without any way of either accessing cash or buying anything by card, until after the banks had reissued my cards, after Christmas. That experience made me very wary about being in the same situation again.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 17 May 2026 ==


You are confusing two issues. I am quite happy with barcode tickets, and I am quite happy with bog roll tickets (although I admit I prefer CCST). What I am not happy with is e-tickets, that can only be displayed on a mobile phone or the like (unless you happen to have access to a printer after you have bought the ticket). If there was a facility whereby I could get my e-ticket printed out when I got to the station I would be happy, but as far as I am aware that facility is not available.

I have found my phone running low on battery on a long train journey sufficiently often that I am not prepared to rely on my phone as the means of holding my ticket. Only last week I found on boarding that I had forgotten to put my phone on charge the previous night, and of course the charging sockets on the train weren't working (nor was the internet). If I had had an e-ticket I would have been screwed.

I also understand that mobile phone snatching is fast becoming the theft of choice, particularly in the major cities.

Added to which, I have managed to misplaced my phone countless times in the past. Happily I have usually managed to recover it most times, but again in the interim I would have been screwed.

Combine that will the other issues with e-tickets previously discussed, and as far as I am concerned, the small benefit of not needing to get your ticket at the station, is massively outweighed by all the negatives.

I am aware that those people who rely on their mobiles for every aspect of their lives will regard me as a bit of a dinosaur. But as in my previous post, I suspect they don't realise how vulnerable they are making themselves. Those of a certain age will remember "filofax bereavement syndrome", when those who relied on Filofaxes to organise their lives lost them.

The main problem isn’t the phone as you can simply print the e-ticket.

As already stated the problems are firstly poorly trained railway staff and secondly gates with technology that, for whatever reason(s), do not permit all valid tickets.

 

[TUC]

Ever heard of the saying about putting all your eggs in one basket? People who rely on their phone for so much are making themselves very vulnerable if they are parted from their phone for some reason. Consider the effect of losing your phone at a critical moment (such as on the way to the airport to go on holiday).

Many years ago I was mugged of all my bank cards in the run up to Christmas. I was effectively without any way of either accessing cash or buying anything by card, until after the banks had reissued my cards, after Christmas. That experience made me very wary about being in the same situation again.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 17 May 2026 ==

As I said above, if that happened then once I signed into my account on a new phone, almost all of the previous phone's content would be recovered. That isn't the case with a new wallet.

 

[D365]

Ever heard of the saying about putting all your eggs in one basket? People who rely on their phone for so much are making themselves very vulnerable if they are parted from their phone for some reason. Consider the effect of losing your phone at a critical moment (such as on the way to the airport to go on holiday).

I have found my phone running low on battery on a long train journey sufficiently often that I am not prepared to rely on my phone as the means of holding my ticket. Only last week I found on boarding that I had forgotten to put my phone on charge the previous night, and of course the charging sockets on the train weren't working (nor was the internet). If I had had an e-ticket I would have been screwed.

I also understand that mobile phone snatching is fast becoming the theft of choice, particularly in the major cities.

Added to which, I have managed to misplaced my phone countless times in the past. Happily I have usually managed to recover it most times, but again in the interim I would have been screwed.

Combine that will the other issues with e-tickets previously discussed, and as far as I am concerned, the small benefit of not needing to get your ticket at the station, is massively outweighed by all the negatives.

I am aware that those people who rely on their mobiles for every aspect of their lives will regard me as a bit of a dinosaur. But as in my previous post, I suspect they don't realise how vulnerable they are making themselves. Those of a certain age will remember "filofax bereavement syndrome", when those who relied on Filofaxes to organise their lives lost them.

This is where I would suggest a few contingencies:

• Bring a "USB power bank" and the appropriate charging leads
• Print boarding passes and other travel documents
• Mail said passes / documents to my travel companion, or I make copies on a second device (iPad or laptop)

I agree that relying on one device to undertake every operation of your lifestyle is a risk. But with contingency plans in place, plus electronic backups of your smart devices, there are methods to reduce the risks to an acceptable level.

Many years ago I was mugged of all my bank cards in the run up to Christmas. I was effectively without any way of either accessing cash or buying anything by card, until after the banks had reissued my cards, after Christmas. That experience made me very wary about being in the same situation again.

This is one area where a modern smartphone is a clear benefit. When I lost my wallet, I was able to 'freeze' my debit and credit cards immediately via the respective banking apps - no need to call a helpline. With Apple Pay I could continue to make payments or emergency cash withdrawals as this uses distinct virtual cards.

You are confusing two issues. I am quite happy with barcode tickets, and I am quite happy with bog roll tickets (although I admit I prefer CCST). What I am not happy with is e-tickets, that can only be displayed on a mobile phone or the like (unless you happen to have access to a printer after you have bought the ticket). If there was a facility whereby I could get my e-ticket printed out when I got to the station I would be happy, but as far as I am aware that facility is not available.

I do agree that supplementing TOD machines with an eTicket print facility should be the way forward.

 

[sh24]

I can travel around the world using my phone - planes, trains, cabs, buses - and use Apple Pay in shops, restaurants, hotels. Why would I want to print a ticket to travel Bromley North - Stansted today? (PS I know why, rhetorical question). Collecting a ToD is a nuisance, faffing around with a crappy ticket machine, fishing out a card from my wallet.

I've never run out of power for my phone, or had it stolen. I certainly have lost paper tickets which have no backup at all.

The onus should be on eliminating paper tickets entirely.

 

[renegademaster]

All the headlines about the really high walk up fares on London Newcastle trains etc make people who don't normally use public transport think if you don't book your train from Littlehampton to Brighton 10 weeks in advance, you are going to be paying £300 or some other silly figure, hence lots of people buying tickets ahead of time who really don't need to.

 

[talldave]

For the small number of journeys for which I have a ticket I have to thank the forum's site for weaning me off ToD! Yes, the barriers at Staines reject my eTicket about 10% of the time, but time at home with my family is more important than missing a train as I queue and fight yet another faulty touchscreen.

However, the future is ticketless - ie: contactless - which is compatible with both wallet and smartphone and is already here for Londoners. I think the Byelaws are woefully out of sync with ticketless travel; but that’s one for another thread.

 

[Hadders]

However, the future is ticketless - ie: contactless - which is compatible with both wallet and smartphone and is already here for Londoners.

I don’t think there will ever be a national smartcard system.

Let’s say you forget to touch in at Penzance and travel to St Erth, what’s the penalty? What if you’re travelling to Paddington? Or even further?

 

[renegademaster]

A national smartcard would require some kind of maximum fare of something more reasonable like £80 and not using £500 walk up tickets as a way of milking an ever dwindling amount of people with generous expense accounts who don't look at what their tickets cost.

The Netherlands can manage with a national smartcard system for somewhere about the same size as London-Manchester, but they also don't have punitive anytime walk up tickets.

Worst come to worst you could just exclude London-Scotland trains from the scheme and you probably wouldn't loose much money. Nothing would stop you from still selling advances under the contactless cap of £80 would be the cap and still be more expensive than 99% of Avanti journeys

 

[SargeNpton]

Ever heard of the saying about putting all your eggs in one basket? People who rely on their phone for so much are making themselves very vulnerable if they are parted from their phone for some reason. Consider the effect of losing your phone at a critical moment (such as on the way to the airport to go on holiday)

Even more so for those people who use their phone's case to hold other important things such as their driving licence - then leave it on display on the table in a busy pub.

 

[geoffk]

I don’t think there will ever be a national smartcard system.

Let’s say you forget to touch in at Penzance and travel to St Erth, what’s the penalty? What if you’re travelling to Paddington? Or even further?

I can't see how contactless "touch in and out" is feasible for anything other than local journeys because of the wide range of fares and ticket types available for long-distance travel. GWR has it in Cornwall (including Plymouth) and the Bristol area and we await developments in Devon.

 

[sh24]

Of course, anything on your phone can be/will be backed up via iCloud or the Android equivalent. How does one do that with paper?

 

[blimmo]

Considering just the risk of loss I still think I am much less likely to lose a paper ticket than my phone.

I am constantly taking my phone out to use it, leaving it on the table, etc. A paper ticket I will collect at the station immediately before travelling then put it away and not remove it except for barriers and inspections which is probably an average of <1 time per journey for me. The risk of loss before the trip starts is therefore zero (since I haven't collected it yet) whereas if I lose my phone and don't have access to a printer I'm screwed.

To be clear this doesn't mean I prefer paper tickets always and I think most people don't even think about this. Other aspects of etickets are much more important most of the time.

 

[Bletchleyite]

I do agree that supplementing TOD machines with an eTicket print facility should be the way forward.

It's something that is complicated by the existence of multiple retail channels. If there was just a gbrtickets.com and nothing else, you could simply log in using your username and password at a TVM, retrieve all your e-tickets and print any you wanted with a few taps, even if you've been mugged of everything bar your clothing.

Do any of the European nationalised railways offer that, I wonder?

 

[Adam Williams]

It's something that is complicated by the existence of multiple retail channels

We've had federated authentication tech for decades, you only have to look at the likes of eduroam, govroam or the UK Access Management Federation in academia.

There aren't really any blockers here on a technical level for this sort of account-based ticketing.

 

[Haywain]

whereas if I lose my phone and don't have access to a printer I'm screwed.

I guess if you lost your phone you would take steps to replace it though, so unless you are specialising in losing it on the day of travel you will have time to retrieve your accounts and your tickets.

 

[Bletchleyite]

There aren't really any blockers here on a technical level for this sort of account-based ticketing.

It's certainly something I'd like GBR to look at doing - a wholly mode agnostic ticketing system where anything to do with any ticket can be done by any sales point whether GBR or third party and whether online, by telephone or at a booking office. There's no reason I see that it couldn't be done - it's more complex involving third party retailers but it's not impossible as you say.

It probably requires a move to the principle of the ticket being a record in a database and the thing you hold (be that a piece of bog roll/till roll, an Apple/Google pass or a reference number scrawled on the back of your hand in biro) just being a reference to it, but if we're going to be sorting the mobile signal issue in places like the Far North by way of Starlink that doesn't seem far fetched any more.

 

[blimmo]

Railcards are another consideration actually. If you have a digital Railcard then your paper ticket is worthless if you lose/break/discharge your phone and vice versa with a plastic Railcard. Until railcards are available as a pdf I'll be sticking with plastic so paper tickets are automatically more reliable.

I guess if you lost your phone you would take steps to replace it though, so unless you are specialising in losing it on the day of travel you will have time to retrieve your accounts and your tickets.

True although we did have someone post on the forum fairly recently about this exact situation. I think my point is really that etickets only really protect you from loss if you have the time and facilities to sort it. There is therefore actually a slight benefit to paper tickets in terms of not losing them before travel.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Railcards are another consideration actually. If you have a digital Railcard then your paper ticket is worthless if you lose/break/discharge your phone and vice versa with a plastic Railcard. Until railcards are available as a pdf I'll be sticking with plastic so paper tickets are automatically more reliable.

Unless you are really bad at managing your phone being in working order and fully charged, the once a year forgotten Railcard policy deals with this perfectly well. Pay/accept the fare/PF requested and appeal it submitting proof when you get home. There would be scope to do that with e-tickets too, but it would require tickets to become named as otherwise anyone could use it, unless you want to open up an opportunity for people to keep re-using tickets they know aren't scanned.

 

[Haywain]

There is therefore actually a slight benefit to paper tickets in terms of not losing them before travel.

And if you do lose them, you have no protection at all.

 

[blimmo]

I had forgotten the forgotten Railcard policy!

Ironically if tickets are named you can do away with the requirement to show a railcard (and enforce having the Railcard at the point of sale and therefore prevent most of the Railcard posts in disputes...).

 

[Bletchleyite]

Ironically if tickets are named you can do away with the requirement to show a railcard (and enforce having the Railcard at the point of sale and therefore prevent most of the Railcard posts in disputes...).

Though you'd need to carry some form of ID I guess, and Railcards would be a good option for that for those who don't have driving licences and wouldn't want to carry something awkward like a passport.

 

[blimmo]

Though you'd need to carry some form of ID I guess, and Railcards would be a good option for that for those who don't have driving licences and wouldn't want to carry something awkward like a passport.

Absolutely, you could still get a rail ID free when you paid the subscription but also could just use a driving licence. Almost everyone I know has some form of ID already (even if just a provisional driving licence) so I think it would be more convenient for most people.

 

[saismee]

You should read this forum less. The reality is that sort of things happens very rarely, and investigating scan data to investigate irregularities will only happen to people who have been stopped for an offence.

I've had my Trainline account investigated for fraudulent activity without being stopped, so this isn't true. It can be triggered by scans.

Library, internet cafe, show it on your friend or partner’s phone…

Unless RPIs randomly decide that a picture of an E-ticket isn't valid. I've seen this happen firsthand so I always send my friends both the screenshot and PDF.

I usually travel with my phone and laptop, so if my phone was lost/stolen I would usually be able to display an e-ticket on my laptop (might be tricky to scan it at barriers though).

I've seen people scan tickets on a lot of devices. Lots of laptops and some very large tablets. Surprisingly easier than you'd expect if the brightness is good.

With a phone? But you might lose the phone!

Insert the ticket, not the phone!

 

[Haywain]

Insert the ticket, not the phone!

The suggestion was to take a photo of the ticket before inserting the ticket into the barrier, in case the ticket is retained. It remains possible that the phone could subsequently be lost, just as the ticket could be if it is returned by the barrier.

I've had my Trainline account investigated for fraudulent activity without being stopped, so this isn't true. It can be triggered by scans.

I have no knowledge of the circumstances of your case so am unable to comment on that. But I do not believe that train companies are routinely looking at the entirety of scan data in the hope that they might find someone committing a one-off offence which would, in any case, be almost impossible to prove.

 

[Bletchleyite]

I have no knowledge of the circumstances of your case so am unable to comment on that. But I do not believe that train companies are routinely looking at the entirety of scan data in the hope that they might find someone committing a one-off offence which would, in any case, be almost impossible to prove.

If that was being done routinely I would have had a letter by now because I have rather a lot of MKC <-> BLY singles to my name almost all of which only have a scan at one end. These are used to extend existing tickets, of course, but as I buy almost all my long distance tickets on Trainsplit and almost all my short distance on the day ones on Trainline the data probably wouldn't usefully show them that.

Of course if anyone IS committing actual ticket fraud only possible on paper tickets (rather than being falsely accused of it or sent a fishing letter as I suspect was true of the poster above), then if moving away from CCST prevents it then good.