Why does Southeastern manage Hastings station?

[notaspota]

I was under the impression that operators which run the most services from a station tend to manage it. Southeastern only operates 1 service to London Charing Cross/Cannon Street per hour, meanwhile Southern operates at least 6 trains per hour.

Apparently, Hastings isn't getting The Key (ITSO) due to the fact that Southeastern manage it, even though the station is primarily run by Southern. Does this make much sense to anyone else?

 

[yorksrob]

The Marshlink traditionally belonged to the South Eastern division with the Coastway towards Eastbourne being the interloper. This may explain why South Eastern got control of Hastings station. Strictly speaking, the Tonbridge route is also the "main" line to London, which may also give it precedence.

 

[heart-of-wessex]

The Marshlink traditionally belonged to the South Eastern division with the Coastway towards Eastbourne being the interloper. This may explain why South Eastern got control of Hastings station. Strictly speaking, the Tonbridge route is also the "main" line to London, which may also give it precedence.

At least Southeastern has some form of service stopping there. Makes more sense than Mottisfont & Dunbridge and Dean stations, both of which are managed by FGW but only SWT services use the station

 

[swt_passenger]

At least Southeastern has some form of service stopping there. Makes more sense than Mottisfont & Dunbridge and Dean stations, both of which are managed by FGW but only SWT services use the station

...and we know exactly why that is, cos we discuss it every other month.

 

[talltim]

Dronfield station was managed by Northern for about 4 years before they even started running trains through, let alone stopping

 

[heart-of-wessex]

Is it discussed on here each month do you mean? If so I've missed it all and haven't a clue as to why this is the case :?

 

[N Levers]

I was under the impression that operators which run the most services from a station tend to manage it. Southeastern only operates 1 service to London Charing Cross/Cannon Street per hour, meanwhile Southern operates at least 6 trains per hour.

It's 2 Southeasterns an hour. It's also the main fastest route to london.

Also saying at least 6 southern services operate is stretching as it is 3 each way and two of those only go to ore.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
Isn't there a station only XC serve but XC run no stations.

 

[tbtc]

Isn't there a station only XC serve but XC run no stations

I'm sure there are a few (Burton on Trent etc)

Dronfield station was managed by Northern for about 4 years before they even started running trains through, let alone stopping

Northern Spirit/ ATN used to serve Dronfield

I was under the impression that operators which run the most services from a station tend to manage it. Southeastern only operates 1 service to London Charing Cross/Cannon Street per hour, meanwhile Southern operates at least 6 trains per hour.

Apparently, Hastings isn't getting The Key (ITSO) due to the fact that Southeastern manage it, even though the station is primarily run by Southern. Does this make much sense to anyone else?

Maybe the question is more "why do Southern operate the Marshlink line when so much of it is in South Eastern territory" (the reason I suspect being to avoid SE running a tiny fleet of DMUs)?

 

[yorksrob]

Maybe the question is more "why do Southern operate the Marshlink line when so much of it is in South Eastern territory" (the reason I suspect being to avoid SE running a tiny fleet of DMUs)?

That, and the ability to run the through Ashford - Brighton service I would have thought.

 

[Muzer]

Is it discussed on here each month do you mean? If so I've missed it all and haven't a clue as to why this is the case :?

FGW used to run trains to them back when Southampton locals conisted of Romsey to Totton (correct me if I'm wrong), they'd stop a few trains a day (how many? I can't remember) at Mottisfont & Dunbridge and Dean. When the Totton to Romsey local route was extended in 2007 to become the Salisbury 6 (Salisbury to Romsey via Romsey and Southampton), the two stations stopped being served by FGW.

I don't know if there are plans to change this when the SWT franchise is let out next, or what - someone else probably does.

 

[Carlisle]

Lockerbie is run by scotrail but non of their services stop there

 

[SussexSpotter]

Maybe the question is more "why do Southern operate the Marshlink line when so much of it is in South Eastern territory" (the reason I suspect being to avoid SE running a tiny fleet of DMUs)?

That, and the ability to run the through Ashford - Brighton service I would have thought.

I have always wondered why the Marshlink was never under Southeastern control, as geographically it would make sense, but I suppose having it under Southern control allows Southern to move the DMU fleet about more easier. Either for use on the Uckfield line or Marshlink/East Coastway.....

 

[yorksrob]

I have always wondered why the Marshlink was never under Southeastern control, as geographically it would make sense, but I suppose having it under Southern control allows Southern to move the DMU fleet about more easier. Either for use on the Uckfield line or Marshlink/East Coastway.....

I think it was in the run-up to privatisation that it transferred over.

Of course, going back in time, the South Eastern Railway built and owned the route from Ashford through Hastings and round to Tonbridge, with the London Brighton and South Coast Railway owning the route from Eastbourne as far as BoPeep Junction.

 

[swt_passenger]

Is it discussed on here each month do you mean? If so I've missed it all and haven't a clue as to why this is the case :?

About a fortnight ago:

http://www.railforums.co.uk/showthread.php?t=86854

Includes links to earlier versions...

 

[bicbasher]

Southeastern operate 2tph from Hastings to London on weekdays and Saturdays. One is semi-fast, the other a stopper.

They also manage St Leonards Warrior Square with the only station in Southern hands in the Hastings borough area being Ore, which is used for Victoria terminators and through Marshlink services and Southeastern peak services.

 

[notaspota]

Southeastern operate 2tph from Hastings to London on weekdays and Saturdays. One is semi-fast, the other a stopper.

They also manage St Leonards Warrior Square with the only station in Southern hands in the Hastings borough area being Ore, which is used for Victoria terminators and through Marshlink services and Southeastern peak services.

There's a Southern service which runs between Ashford to Brighton which sometimes stops at Ore too.

I'm sure there are a few (Burton on Trent etc)



Northern Spirit/ ATN used to serve Dronfield



Maybe the question is more "why do Southern operate the Marshlink line when so much of it is in South Eastern territory" (the reason I suspect being to avoid SE running a tiny fleet of DMUs)?

To be fair, they do run more services east of Ashford in Kent.

It's 2 Southeasterns an hour. It's also the main fastest route to london.

Also saying at least 6 southern services operate is stretching as it is 3 each way and two of those only go to ore.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
Isn't there a station only XC serve but XC run no stations.

Ah yes of course, 2 per hour.

Apparently, there are 2 trains per hour to Brighton, 1 to Ashford, 2 to Ore (occasionally platform 1 is used for the 1 stop service) and 1 tph to London Victoria, by Southern. Fair to say they run most services at the station.

The Marshlink traditionally belonged to the South Eastern division with the Coastway towards Eastbourne being the interloper. This may explain why South Eastern got control of Hastings station. Strictly speaking, the Tonbridge route is also the "main" line to London, which may also give it precedence.

That makes sense, but surely it would be logical to re-brand now?

 

[SussexSpotter]

There's a Southern service which runs between Ashford to Brighton which sometimes stops at Ore too.

Not many turbostars stop there though....very few!

(ORE STATION):

Ashford bound departures (Mon-Fri) - 0523, 0549, 1712, 2137
Hastings bound departures (Mon-Fri) - 0655, 0804, 0935, 2314

Ashford bound departures (Sat) - 0523, 2137
Hastings bound departures (Sat) - 0710, 2314

Ashford bound departures (Sun) - 0724
Hastings bound departures (Sun) - 0859, 2314

 

[yorksrob]

That makes sense, but surely it would be logical to re-brand now?

Theoretically maybe. But then you've got a lot of expense and admin transferring staff to another company, changing the signage, changing management and supply structures etc. Quite a lot of hassle bearing in mind both companies will continue to serve the station fairly comprehensively regardless.

 

[paul1609]

There's a Southern service which runs between Ashford to Brighton which sometimes stops at Ore too.



To be fair, they do run more services east of Ashford in Kent.



Ah yes of course, 2 per hour.

Apparently, there are 2 trains per hour to Brighton, 1 to Ashford, 2 to Ore (occasionally platform 1 is used for the 1 stop service) and 1 tph to London Victoria, by Southern. Fair to say they run most services at the station.



That makes sense, but surely it would be logical to re-brand now?

On your criteria Southern should take control of Havant from South west Trains, that seems quite unlikely.

 

[bicbasher]

The only issue I can find with Hastings and Warrior Square under Southeastern management is that Southern haven't been able to introduce it's ITSO The Key at those two stations, or at the Marshlink stations east of Hastings. The Bexhill to Hastings corridor is popular for local commuters

 

[Fincra5]

At the end of the day does it really matter? I mean NR could manage all the stations for all I care I do agree with the ITSO thing, tho I hate that infernal KeyCard haha.

 

[SussexSpotter]

Theoretically maybe. But then you've got a lot of expense and admin transferring staff to another company, changing the signage, changing management and supply structures etc. Quite a lot of hassle bearing in mind both companies will continue to serve the station fairly comprehensively regardless.

At the end of the day does it really matter? I mean NR could manage all the stations for all I care I do agree with the ITSO thing, tho I hate that infernal KeyCard haha.

Nobody has mentioned that Southeastern and Southern are both run by the Go-Ahead group....so for the time being I don't think anyone is really that bothered anyway to be honest!

 

[transmanche]

Nobody has mentioned that Southeastern and Southern are both run by the Go-Ahead group....so for the time being I don't think anyone is really that bothered anyway to be honest!

But that makes it odd as to why The Key won't be available at Hastings (and other Southeastern stations).

 

[swt_passenger]

But that makes it odd as to why The Key won't be available at Hastings (and other Southeastern stations).

Because the last time SE was re-franchised, DfT had not yet mandated ITSO. So they are not yet required to have anything to do with it.

 

[transmanche]

Because the last time SE was re-franchised, DfT had not yet mandated ITSO. So they are not yet required to have anything to do with it.

But I guess there's nothing preventing them from doing it? I would have thought it would make commercial sense for GoVia to introduce it...

 

[harz99]

Lockerbie is run by scotrail but non of their services stop there

None of their (Scotrail) services even pass through Lockerbie unless you count the sleeper - It is the only railway station in Scotland without a Scotrail service.

Also I think I am correct in saying that the tracks through the station are maintained from the English side of the border.

 

[bicbasher]

Because the last time SE was re-franchised, DfT had not yet mandated ITSO. So they are not yet required to have anything to do with it.

This is the difference between the two TOCs. One runs an ITSO scheme, offers value for money tickets across it's network, the other would rather charge you over £30 for a day trip to the Kent Coast unless you live in the West Midlands where it's possible to get a £12 advance and won't go beyond the call of duty to provide a service to passengers.

 

[Eagle]

Also I think I am correct in saying that the tracks through the station are maintained from the English side of the border.

No, Lockerbie is in the Scotland region of Network Rail. The border between the Scotland and LNW regions is Kirkpatrick Fleming (at milepost 12.30 to be specific).

 

[SussexSpotter]

This is the difference between the two TOCs. One runs an ITSO scheme, offers value for money tickets across it's network, the other would rather charge you over £30 for a day trip to the Kent Coast unless you live in the West Midlands where it's possible to get a £12 advance and won't go beyond the call of duty to provide a service to passengers.

I have to admit Southern is a lot better than Southeastern when it comes to value for money tickets!....

 

[notaspota]

This is the difference between the two TOCs. One runs an ITSO scheme, offers value for money tickets across it's network, the other would rather charge you over £30 for a day trip to the Kent Coast unless you live in the West Midlands where it's possible to get a £12 advance and won't go beyond the call of duty to provide a service to passengers.

I have to admit Southern is a lot better than Southeastern when it comes to value for money tickets!....

These are two very important points to consider.

I save £10-£20 even with a railcard on my most common train journey by using Southern to Victoria via Eastbourne, rather than using the Southeastern service which goes to Charing Cross and avoids Eastbourne, only shaving 30-45 minutes from the journey time.

Southern is much more prominent in the Hastings area, Southeastern is much more of a secondary service. ITSO is an important feature, how can they expect to implement such a feature and then only enable it across some of the most unpopular stations across the line and continously expect it to be used? Hastings isn't the only station being blocked by the ITSO implementation on Southern routes.