Why does FGW get so much bad press?

[A-driver]

Imagine if Virgin won it!

Of course, we can only imagine because Virgin wouldn't bid for it - or if it did, would create a new brand that would probably not feature the name at all.

I'm biased as a FCC GN user, but I think the service is mostly excellent. Nearly every problem is down to circumstances outside of FCC's control (and thus any operator) and even the 'problem' with RPIs isn't really a problem as I sympathise with their need to clamp down on a serious and real fare evasion problem.

The problem is only when RPIs get things wrong, which is about the only thing FCC can do something about.

That's very true. People believe that FCC own their rolling stock and are too tight to buy new or extra trains. They also believe that FCC maintain and own the signals and infrastructure and that they decide weather FCC or east coast get priority at junctions.

You only need to look at twitter to see that.

 

[Flamingo]

A common "insult" I get flung at me is "I hope you lose your franchise". My usual respons is "If we do, I'll still be here wearing a different coloured jacket, and your ticket still won't be valid" .

 

[ValleyLines142]

I have to admit with many people on this thread that FGW's staff are excellent. They are always helpful and friendly. Especially Jo on their Facebook page. She's very helpful and always so apologetic to passengers who have been delayed, even if the delays aren't down to FGW.

I think that they do need to prioritise their rolling stock, however. I don't think the 150/1s are really appropriate for runs such as Cardiff to Bristol; it is a key commuter route and newer stock with plug sockets for laptops should be an option. I think the 150/1s are absolutely fine on routes such as the local lines around Bristol and Exeter, but I think anything that runs through to Cardiff or runs from the far south-west up to Bristol should be a 158 really, although I do appreciate they are heavily in demand for the Cardiff to Portsmouth route.

What I don't understand is when FGW say there is a national shortage of carriages. The 0730 Cardiff to Portsmouth is booked for a 150+158 as far as Bristol, where the 150 splits and forms a Taunton stopper. However, it would be really good if a 150 could be attached to the 1423 Portsmouth to Cardiff return, as that is a very busy service!

The HSTs are great trains too, perfect for Intercity journeys. And I also like the 158s, although there really isn't a lot of legroom at all.

 

[aleph_0]

A common "insult" I get flung at me is "I hope you lose your franchise". My usual respons is "If we do, I'll still be here wearing a different coloured jacket, and your ticket still won't be valid" .

.

FGW staff are great. However, quite a few of the passengers really need to up their game.

I used to travel a lot from Reading westwards towards the end of the evening peak when the narrowed Platform 7 was stil used for all westbound mains. The Reading commuter all travelling in the same carriage, and walking the wrong side of the yellow line thus delaying dispatch was silly. The same commuters will the next day be complaining that the train is queuing outside the station, no doubt.

I guess it's a question of expectations. The Reading commuter expect to turn up at Paddington jump on a train, and by taken straight home at 125mph. Anything less than this is wrongly seen as a failure, and they moan accordingly.

 

[NSEFAN]

A common "insult" I get flung at me is "I hope you lose your franchise". My usual respons is "If we do, I'll still be here wearing a different coloured jacket, and your ticket still won't be valid" .

Nice.

It does surprise me that many commuters don't seem to take more interest in their service. I would expect regular users of the trains to at least have a very basic understanding of the industry; to me the separation of NR and TOCs is a pretty fundamental thing!

 

[jon0844]

I found this when there were delays on FCC. On the same train as many other familiar faces, I often found myself passing on info that I got from a range of sources on the train to explain the delay. People were usually grateful, but often seemed to think it was a 'poor excuse' and I ended up feeling like I was working for First and having to defend them, despite being caught up in the delay!

I used to hear rather ridiculous suggestions about how the problems could be fixed, or how extra trains should be put on (ignoring the fact that these would have to slot in amongst Intercity services and stoppers, thus wouldn't get anywhere) and clearly they had never paused to think about what nonsense they were speaking - despite seeing quite clearly EVERY DAY how things work.

 

[455driver]

The Reading commuter expect to turn up at Paddington jump on a train, stand in the 1st class vestibule with their standard class ticket, and by taken straight home at 125mph. Anything less than this is wrongly seen as a failure, and they moan accordingly.

post edited for accuracy!

 

[richw]

Seen some excellent service by a FGW dispatcher, he was clearly about to dispatch when he spotted someone running over the footbridge and he held the doors open for the man to get onboard. The moment the man was through the door the whistle was blown and doors closed and off the 150 went.
The next train was 65 mins later, so would of been a long wait for the running man.

 

[455driver]

The next train was 65 mins later, so would of been a long wait for the running man.

Maybe he should have put a bit more effort into getting to the station in time then!

If the bloke was running then I would have waited as well.

 

[transmanche]

I doubt most people have a clue about the involvement of Stagecoach in the Virgin Trains operation. I am sure they think of Virgin Atlantic and Richard Branson, and how Virgin is shaking up the industry etc.

And the same goes for all the other Virgin-branded companies which have been sold by Virgin and merely license the Virgin brand. The latest being Virgin Media.

Well I'm not sure if the transfer of ownership has taken place yet, but the sale has been approved by the regulators.

 

[jon0844]

It is expected it will be approved from what I've heard.

Richard Branson already has very little to do with it, but obviously gets rolled out for advertising and press events/stunts. I am sure he'll continue to promote Virgin Media for Liberty Global as normal and the public will still be none the wiser.

 

[PHILIPE]

Not so, according to the recollections of several forum members in previous threads on the subject, and also on this internet site:

It gas come back to me. They use to run to Portsmouth & Southsea Lpw Level where there were facilities to run round the stock. 47 worked. When the Voyagers arrived they ran to the Harbour, There would have been traction knowledge with 158s south of Birmingham.

 

[WelshBluebird]

My main issue with FGW has always been a lack of information when things go wrong. But that applies to ATW and XC in my experience, so I can't really blame FGW specifically. It is a problem with the railway industry in general.

In terms of actual customer service, I can't really fault them. The two times I have needed help, I have got it.

The first was when I was heading to Barnstaple from Bath. The train I was on from Bristol was late so I missed the connection at Exeter. It would have been a nearly two hour wait until the next train (not sure if it is still the case but there was a gap of nearly two hours between two services in the evening), and so they put me in a taxi and I got to Barnstaple at the same time as the train I had missed.

The second was when I was heading the other way, from Barnstaple to Bath. But had a National Express coach to catch to Shepton Mallet 30 minutes after my arrival time into Bath. The train from Barnstaple was delayed by around 90 minutes because of the train breaking down. I explained my situation to the staff at Exeter who said they would speak to staff at Bath and they would see what they could do. Low and behold they managed to get a taxi for me from Bath to Shepton Mallet. Despite that leg not being anything to do with them or even the railway!

 

[Flamingo]

My main issue with FGW has always been a lack of information when things go wrong. But that applies to ATW and XC in my experience, so I can't really blame FGW specifically. It is a problem with the railway industry in general.

That probably is because of what we staff on the forum keep saying - it's often a fluid situation, nobody can really give a time or a pathway as to what is happening, and the people sorting it out are busy actually sorting it out, not getting sidetracked into giving a running commentary which may turn out to be inaccurate anyway.

For example, today, I was stopped at a signal about Tilehurst. The pager said there was a problem at Reading West Junction, and 15 minutes delay. I went onto the PA, explained there was signalling problems and a delay, as soon as I finished, the train moved, straight onto the platform no stops, total delay less than three minutes. I'd have been better off saying nothing. But Control had obviously been told by Network Rail it was going pear-shaped, and they told us.

When there is serious disruption, for example on the train mentioned by the OP, or any of the dozens of trains mentioned in previous threads, nobody really knows how long it's going to take to sort it - but what is known is that the safest place to keep passengers is on the train, not start half-assed plans about ramps and walking along the track.

I had a train a few months ago, Box Tunnel was closed so it had to run Bath-Reading non-stop via the B&H. I announced this, gave my estimated running time (which was spot on!), and then walked through checking everybody's ticket as a means of interacting individually with every passenger. I found a few with ipods on who had no idea despite my numerous announcements before and while on the platform at Bath, but the doozie was when I reached the final carriage. One gent started screaming (no exaggeration) at me as why I had not been giving updates every five minutes (despite nothing to update), and told me in no uncertain terms that my going through (talking with all 300 passengers on the train to address any individual concerns and questions they might have) was not good enough, and the sort of rubbish customer service he had come to expect from FGW.

How can you please people like that?

 

[PHILIPE]

Much of the reason for lack of onfo in tthe case of disruption is that you have 2 bodies involved.

(1) Network Rail responsible for the movement and organising of trains and

(2) TOCs concerned with the best for the passengers so they don't always know what (1) has in mind so therefore have no or incomplete info to pass on.

 

[WelshBluebird]

That probably is because of what we staff on the forum keep saying - it's often a fluid situation, nobody can really give a time or a pathway as to what is happening, and the people sorting it out are busy actually sorting it out, not getting sidetracked into giving a running commentary which may turn out to be inaccurate anyway.

For example, today, I was stopped at a signal about Tilehurst. The pager said there was a problem at Reading West Junction, and 15 minutes delay. I went onto the PA, explained there was signalling problems and a delay, as soon as I finished, the train moved, straight onto the platform no stops, total delay less than three minutes. I'd have been better off saying nothing. But Control had obviously been told by Network Rail it was going pear-shaped, and they told us.

Of course, it really does depend on the situation. And sometimes staff are brilliant. There isn't a hard and fast rule about what to do, and most passengers I think realise that. But we would prefer to be told something. It is just wrong that quite often, a passenger with a smartphone and a decent brain can see what the delay is, why it is occurring and roughly how serious it is, before any announcements are made. Of course I don't blame the staff on the front line. 90% of the time it really isn't their fault at all. I appreciate that quite often, you guys are as much in the dark as passengers are. But it is an issue the industry as a whole needs to look at IMO.

TOCs concerned with the best for the passengers

I do not believe that is always the case.
I have seen staff lie to passengers just to get them off a service that was terminating early, so it could then form the return working starting at that point on the line.

 

[cjmillsnun]

Personally I don't have an issue with FGW however other pax may have issues due to the overcrowding on peak services. IIRC FGW have some of the most overcrowded services going.

 

[RPI]

The reason FGW gets so much bad press? Reading and surrounding area commuters is the answer to that, they expect the world for nothing and think they are so hard done by, must be awful having a frequent fast service into London........ you'll find that in most areas outside of of the Thames valley FGW are quite popular

 

[richw]

A look on Twitter points that Thames valley passengers believe fgw can magic extra carriages from somewhere.

 

[Flamingo]

Of course, it really does depend on the situation. And sometimes staff are brilliant. There isn't a hard and fast rule about what to do, and most passengers I think realise that. But we would prefer to be told something. It is just wrong that quite often, a passenger with a smartphone and a decent brain can see what the delay is, why it is occurring and roughly how serious it is, before any announcements are made. Of course I don't blame the staff on the front line. 90% of the time it really isn't their fault at all. I appreciate that quite often, you guys are as much in the dark as passengers are. But it is an issue the industry as a whole needs to look at.

You are still missing the point - the people sorting it out often have no idea if a plan is going to work, or what piece of the jigsaw is going to fall in to (or out of) place.

It is not a case that somebody has a master-plan but is keeping it secret. It is a case that various individuals in various control rooms and signal panels are trying to talk to each other and work out a plan whilst not sure exactly what resources may become available or what time they will become available at.

A crystal ball would be required for the level of information that everybody seems to expect.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

Personally I don't have an issue with FGW however other pax may have issues due to the overcrowding on peak services. IIRC FGW have some of the most overcrowded services going.

No, we have a large number of passengers who think there is only one carriage on the train.

 

[WelshBluebird]

You are still missing the point - the people sorting it out often have no idea if a plan is going to work, or what piece of the jigsaw is going to fall in to (or out of) place.

It is not a case that somebody has a master-plan but is keeping it secret. It is a case that various individuals in various control rooms and signal panels are trying to talk to each other and work out a plan whilst not sure exactly what resources may become available or what time they will become available at.

A crystal ball would be required for the level of information that everybody seems to expect.

If I can find out what is going on via my iPhone, then there is no excuse for not making any announcements.

For situations that are like what you are saying, then I have every sympathy with the staff involved as I know how difficult it is to deal with a customer when you don't know the answers to the questions they are asking. But still, any announcement is better than none. Even if it is that you (or someone) is trying to work out the problem.

 

[Aldaniti]

Not so, according to the recollections of several forum members in previous threads on the subject, and also on this internet site:

I'm obliged and happy to stand corrected. I travelled on the train regularly during the 2000/2001 timetable quoted (I used it between Preston and Reading) and know that I never travelled on a 158. I was probably just very lucky!

 

[island]

If I can find out what is going on via my iPhone, then there is no excuse for not making any announcements.

Of course there is. The person who could make the announcements might be busy sorting out the problem.

 

[jopsuk]

On the Reading services, they're running 7/8 car (23m) HSTs and 3-6 car (23m) DMUs where most London TOCs (other than Chiltern) would, at peak time, be running 6-12 car (20m) EMUs with no additional track capacity.

 

[jrhilton]

The problem that FGW have is reputations and opinions tend to stick around a long time - rightly or wrongly.

I used to travel between Goring and Paddington and if I'm honest the service was poor. In the morning there was the train that was non-stop between Tilehurst and Paddington (though I believe it now stops at Slough?). It was usually late into Paddington.

In the evening there were two fast trains with first stop Reading that left around 18:00 (one at 18:00 and the other at 18:03 I think from memory). They almost always left a few minutes late, you never really knew for certain which one would actually pull out of the platform first. The connecting stopper at Reading was then almost always 5-10 minutes late too.

Things go wrong and we can't expect a perfect service all the time, but it was comical how often the trains were late.

I'm glad I don't have to use the route any more, all I can say is I hope it has improved!

 

[Tibbs]

PS. I think FCC (and by the sounds of it FGW and perhaps the others) went from being totally clueless about social media to probably being one of the best, using Twitter to provide useful information and engage with the customers. It's amazing to think how bad they were and how things changed overnight when someone within First Group must have realised it was important to get involved with. And well done to them for that; many other TOCs have only recently begun to catch up - and some still provide mostly automated responses.

Whilst the info may be improving, the style of communication is still utterly crap. Too glib, too defensive, they have a (canned) answer for everything. The general tone is still far too 'railway' i.e. it lacks a likable personality.

LM are better, but still a long way away from what would be considered best practise in the wider social media community.

A lot of people sneer at social media, but it's a double edged sword. Done well, it can really win over support and affection for your brand. Do it badly and you will lose reputation very quickly.

 

[cuccir]

The reason FGW gets so much bad press? Reading and surrounding area commuters is the answer to that, they expect the world for nothing and think they are so hard done by, must be awful having a frequent fast service into London........ you'll find that in most areas outside of of the Thames valley FGW are quite popular

But that stretch of line does (or at least in 2010 did) have the 3 most overcrowded services in the South-East, and 6 of the top 10 most overcrowded services. I'm not saying that FGW are directly to blame for this - track and stock access are unfortunately split over multiple companies and organisations and apportioning blame is difficult - but I can see why Thames Valley commuters would be upset and frustrated with the service.

I've not traveled with them a lot but when I have had had no problems.

 

[broadgage]

A common "insult" I get flung at me is "I hope you lose your franchise". My usual respons is "If we do, I'll still be here wearing a different coloured jacket, and your ticket still won't be valid" .

Agree.
I fully support the moving of standard class ticket holders from First even if they are only standing in the vestibules.
Enforcement is now more vigourous than was the case a few years ago, I am glad to say.
Significant numbers of standees between F and G on the Golden Hind used to be problem in that it delayed restaurant service and prevented staff accessing supplies.

As regards FGW in general, IMHO they have their faults but are a bit better than most other TOCs, and the ONLY TOC to still offer a proper restuarant service.
I suspect that a lot of anti FGW feeling is in fact anti FCC feeling. FCC are the worst TOC of any that I use regularly.
When it was announced that First group had won the West Coast franchise, I suspect that many ill informed persons believed that 4 car class 319s would be used on services to Scotland !

My main gripe against FGW is overcrowding, I appreciate that the answer is not as simple as some make out, but FGW do not appear to be treating this with much urgency. I am not entirely convinced that is NO suitable rolling stock anywhere in the UK that could be leased or hired as a short term measure, even if not the optimum answer it would be better than nothing.

The present view seems to be that nothing can be done until the IEPs arrive, years late and then probably too short and insuficient numbers.

 

[jimm]

Agree.
I fully support the moving of standard class ticket holders from First even if they are only standing in the vestibules.
Enforcement is now more vigourous than was the case a few years ago, I am glad to say.
Significant numbers of standees between F and G on the Golden Hind used to be problem in that it delayed restaurant service and prevented staff accessing supplies.

As regards FGW in general, IMHO they have their faults but are a bit better than most other TOCs, and the ONLY TOC to still offer a proper restuarant service.
I suspect that a lot of anti FGW feeling is in fact anti FCC feeling. FCC are the worst TOC of any that I use regularly.
When it was announced that First group had won the West Coast franchise, I suspect that many ill informed persons believed that 4 car class 319s would be used on services to Scotland !

My main gripe against FGW is overcrowding, I appreciate that the answer is not as simple as some make out, but FGW do not appear to be treating this with much urgency. I am not entirely convinced that is NO suitable rolling stock anywhere in the UK that could be leased or hired as a short term measure, even if not the optimum answer it would be better than nothing.

The present view seems to be that nothing can be done until the IEPs arrive, years late and then probably too short and insuficient numbers.

So if you're not entirely convinced there is NO suitable rolling stock, would you care to tell us where it is?

Can't say I've noticed many HSTs, Turbos, 150s or 158s sitting in sidings doing nothing. In the broad scheme of things, the odd 158 on hire from SWT would not make any fundamental difference, especially in the Thames Valley, where, with the start of work to fit disabled toilets in Turbos, there is no slack at all in the fleet. Nor would expensive loco and coaches formations, even if that would delight some people.

I can't really see what more you expect FGW to do. They spent months talking to DafT to get their hands on the five 180s, the prototype 150s and the two orphaned 150 coaches. And there was the small matter of the franchise bidding going on, which tends to put things on hold for many months.

 

[jon0844]

Whilst the info may be improving, the style of communication is still utterly crap. Too glib, too defensive, they have a (canned) answer for everything. The general tone is still far too 'railway' i.e. it lacks a likable personality.

LM are better, but still a long way away from what would be considered best practise in the wider social media community.

A lot of people sneer at social media, but it's a double edged sword. Done well, it can really win over support and affection for your brand. Do it badly and you will lose reputation very quickly.

I don't follow everything FCC says on Twitter now, but in the early days when it was a lady called Ally(?) I thought it was excellent, and all responses were personalised and no standard cut&paste nonsense.

Perhaps that has changed, especially now there are other people managing the account. What I do know is that FCC manage the Twitter account internally, whereas I believe some TOCs have outsourced such activities.