Why does everybody hate XC?

[telstarbox]

Never sure how that was going to work anyway. I get on at Edinburgh and I am going to Derby, the seat is not reserved. I get to Leeds and someone kicks me out of my seat as they reserved it 10 minutes ago. I now need to stand. I am not impressed :roll: Unless I can reserve it myself by sitting in it.

So can passengers reserve seats which someone may be sitting in? Sounds like it would be difficult to implement, especially as some passengers already ignore reserved seats (thinking of busy EMT mainline services and any TPEs to/from Manchester Airport in particular!)

 

[S19]

Experienced my first CrossCountry journey today.

Now I know what all the fuss is about! I'm just glad I had a first class seat haha

 

[Damien1986]

I have never really used Crosscountry but if there was an offer in the newspaper for their trains I would use it eg. Motherwell to Leeds but my main problem is the catering as it's in the form of a trolley only instead of having both a trolley and a buffet which would be more adequete for journeys from Aberdeen/Dundee/Glasgow to Plymouth/Penzance etc all of which take over 9 hours to complete!!!!!!!!!!

 

[Neilandrewhall]

XC use 2 HSTs Mon-Thu and 3 on Fri. On Sat and Sun it varies and is sometimes up to 4. I'm intrigued by your comment about when Voyagers came along. I can find, without looking too hard, plenty of vidoes of failed 47s, 86s and even the hallowed HSTs being dragged by all manner of freight locos running hideous amounts of hours late. The counter to this will no doubt be 'poor maintenance', but a clapped out 47 or AC electric will always need more frequent maintenance than a newer DMU. And at least Bombardier can switch engines out on Voyagers very simply and keep the unit running, don't think it's quite so simple on any of the locos mentioned, especially 86s. People also lambast XC for no longer running the truly random trains you used to get under BR, such as a Fishguard to Dundee via Swindon and Preston (I'm deliberately using hyperbole). But under privatisation, where a TOC can only call on it's own traincrew, rather than a nationwide pool of route/traction knowledge, that's never going to be practical. Think of all the route learning and refreshing crews would need to do. XC is a franchise that will constantly be under change and getting remoulded to the needs of the customer, but sadly rolling stock is the most expensive variable in all of this, and at these austere times there's little chance of that changing any time soon.

What routes do Crosscountry HST'S run as i have never seen a Cross Country HST in my life.

 

[MidnightFlyer]

What routes do Crosscountry HST'S run as i have never seen a Cross Country HST in my life.

Edinburgh-Plymouth. They hired 4/5 I think, but only use 1/2 now. Shame, much better than Voyagers.

 

[Zoe]

What routes do Crosscountry HST'S run as i have never seen a Cross Country HST in my life.

Edinburgh to Plymouth. As stated elsewhere only 2 diagrams per day at present but this will increase to 4 from the December timetable change.

 

[DarloRich]

I don’t hate Cross Country - their HST services are very good - there just isn’t enough. I think it is the Voyagers to blame. Try Edinburgh to Plymouth on one and I bet you agree!

I also dislike not having a buffet on such a long distance and i also dislike the seating layout - however as my job means a lot of train travel all over the UK I have little option but to use them.

The current incumbent is paying for the errors Virgin/DFT made. Reducing the number of HST sets was a terrible idea, use of voyagers on very long distance services (which they don’t seem to have been designed for) was and remains terrible. Removing loco hauled services was silly too (not out of nostalgia but on service and passenger comfort - look at WSR for what can be achieved)

The staff are keen & work hard but are hamstrung by the equipment they have. However nothing will change and we are stuck with that equipment for the foreseeable future.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
follow this link for XC HST diagrams:

http://www.125group.org.uk/diagrams-AXC.pdf

 

[ainsworth74]

Removing loco hauled services was silly too (not out of nostalgia but on service and passenger comfort - look at WSR for what can be achieved)

Indeed you can achieve a lot when your only running four trains in a day on one route. I would be impressed to see WSR acheive the same levels of passenger satisfaction as they do if they were running for instance 5 trains in the space of two hours each way between Darlington and Birmingham, as well as serving various other routes all over the country.

By all means laud what WSR do, and it is impressive, but they couldn't do it (and remain in business) on a route like the CrossCountry routes.

Otherwise I would tend to agree with what you've written

 

[tbtc]

By all means laud what WSR do, and it is impressive, but they couldn't do it (and remain in business) on a route like the CrossCountry routes

Agreed. I've used the "farm shop" metaphor for WMSR competing with "supermarket" TOCs. Its easy to concentrate on customer service and comfort when you are dealing with a select clientele using your service through choice, but difficult to apply this to "mass market" operations where people are forced to use your service due to lack of alternatives.

 

[DarloRich]

Indeed you can achieve a lot when your only running four trains in a day on one route. I would be impressed to see WSR acheive the same levels of passenger satisfaction as they do if they were running for instance 5 trains in the space of two hours each way between Darlington and Birmingham, as well as serving various other routes all over the country.

By all means laud what WSR do, and it is impressive, but they couldn't do it (and remain in business) on a route like the CrossCountry routes.

Otherwise I would tend to agree with what you've written

Can we have a go please - god that would make the journey from MK back home to Darlo much more intresting and enjoyable!

Mind you BR seemed to manage it for several years! lol

 

[YorkshireBear]

ive got voyager manchester to plymouth in december saturday morning, likely to be busy? if nto then im looking forward to it

 

[DarloRich]

with a booked seat you will be fine

 

[YorkshireBear]

with a booked seat you will be fine

That crossed my mind when i clicked post, as i have booked a table window power socket seat for the whole journey....

 

[ainsworth74]

That crossed my mind when i clicked post, as i have booked a table window power socket seat for the whole journey....

Depends if you can fight your way through the masses to actually get to your seat

 

[Zoe]

with a booked seat you will be fine

Last time I went on a Voyager it wasn't. The electronic reservation system had failed.

 

[Class 33]

With two more HST's coming back into service for Arriva from the December timetable, I'd be interested to know which services these will be operating. Currently the two diagrammed HST's running don't run at the times that I need to travel - up from Bristol to Birmingham or further north in the mornings, and down from the north/Birmingham in the evenings.

I'm planning a trip to York early next year. If the HST's run at times that suit me, I'll get one of those up to or/and from York instead. Rather than travelling a different route to avoid those darn overcrowded Voyagers, for instance either via the GWML and London Kings Cross or via Newport and Manchester!

Of course with still only four HST's running from the new timetable, it may be good news for some, but not for all.

 

[Failed Unit]

With two more HST's coming back into service for Arriva from the December timetable, I'd be interested to know which services these will be operating. Currently the two diagrammed HST's running don't run at the times that I need to travel - up from Bristol to Birmingham or further north in the mornings, and down from the north/Birmingham in the evenings.

I'm planning a trip to York early next year. If the HST's run at times that suit me, I'll get one of those up to or/and from York instead. Rather than travelling a different route to avoid those darn overcrowded Voyagers, for instance either via the GWML and London Kings Cross or via Newport and Manchester!

Of course with still only four HST's running from the new timetable, it may be good news for some, but not for all.

It will be the same as last winter so it may be worth googling some old threads.

The sets will do:

0611 Leeds-Plymouth, 1225 Plymouth-Glasgow,
0638 Dundee-Plymouth, 1725 Plymouth-Leeds,
0628 Derby-Plymouth, 1125 Plymouth-Dundee,
0610 Edinburgh-Plymouth, 1525 Plymouth-York

From my understanding (I will be corrected if wrong ) -

 

[voyagerdude220]

Last time I went on a Voyager it wasn't. The electronic reservation system had failed.

That happened to my friend last Friday, who was using the 16:27 ex MAN.

I saw the traincrew distributing the old ticket style reservations shortly before departure, although it was a bit too late as plenty of people had sat in reserved seats without knowing.

The TM referred to a 'national reservation failure' or words to that effect, so I didn't think at the time that it was just that specific Voyager etc.

On an unrelated note- I heared a very unusual announcement that VT were selling the full range of tickets onboard their trains, due to the 'unusually large number of passengers travelling to London'. Anyone know what was going on?

 

[YorkshireBear]

Last time I went on a Voyager it wasn't. The electronic reservation system had failed.

been on that before and conductor said i can kick them out of my seat as it still says it on the ticket.....

 

[Class 33]

It will be the same as last winter so it may be worth googling some old threads.

The sets will do:

0611 Leeds-Plymouth, 1225 Plymouth-Glasgow,
0638 Dundee-Plymouth, 1725 Plymouth-Leeds,
0628 Derby-Plymouth, 1125 Plymouth-Dundee,
0610 Edinburgh-Plymouth, 1525 Plymouth-York

From my understanding (I will be corrected if wrong ) -

LOL these timings of these HST services are still not convenient to me. The four HST sets are running southbound in the mornings, and northbound in the evenings. The opposite to what I want. Would be good if two of those sets runs northbound in the mornings, and southbound in the evenings.

Never mind, you can't please everyone. I'll just have to carry on making alternative journeys to avoid the Voyagers when I wish to travel up north. The Class 170's, 175's, 185's, HST's(even with that high back seating they have now), and Class 91's to make such journeys make for a pleasant enough travelling experience.

Thanks for the info though!

 

[YorkshireBear]

LOL these timings of these HST services are still not convenient to me. The four HST sets are running southbound in the mornings, and northbound in the evenings. The opposite to what I want. Would be good if two of those sets runs northbound in the mornings, and southbound in the evenings.

Never mind, you can't please everyone. I'll just have to carry on making alternative journeys to avoid the Voyagers when I wish to travel up north. The Class 170's, 175's, 185's, HST's(even with that high back seating they have now), and Class 91's to make such journeys make for a pleasant enough travelling experience.

Thanks for the info though!

i'm interested to know how you make the journey without voyager? just for interest i'm not saying you cant do it i just interested in routes

 

[ainsworth74]

i'm interested to know how you make the journey without voyager? just for interest i'm not saying you cant do it i just interested in routes

Rather than travelling a different route to avoid those darn overcrowded Voyagers, for instance either via the GWML and London Kings Cross or via Newport and Manchester!

Here you go

 

[38Cto15E]

I wasn't going to post about todays CCT experience until I saw that a thread was already running.

My journey was an SVR LEI-CNM, Cheltenham Spa for those not in the know, I knew that this wasn't going to be one of the Great Railway journeys of the World, but Plan B didn't exist.

1049 2 car 170 from Leicester, I managed to get a seat and the train arrived about 6 mins late, 2 carriages from Stansted to Birmingham??? I believe that is not CCTs fault though.
1212 from BHM to CNM, again i luckily managed a seat, many were reserved but I sat in a seat which didn't appear to have a LCD reservation, this train was very crowded, 4 carriages from Glasgow to Plymouth??? on time though.

1542 from CNM to BHM, 10 mins late, not many passengers in the front coach, the seat I sat in near to the middle had more legroom, all the seats were facing southwards though, arrived Brum 6 late.

1652 2 car 170 BHM to LEI, again I luckily obtained a facing seat and then I noticed it was reserved, but from where? Audley End to Nuneaton, no probs then? wrong, a guy came around the train when it was full and standing putting reservations on the seats, and mine was reserved from BHM to ?, fortunately no one came to claim the seat.
One annoyed passenger asked why he was putting the reservations on the seats when the train was already full?
It appeared that the train was very packed and the journey wasn't made any better with a track circuit failure at Landor St resulting in a 20 minute late arrival in Leicester, I know not CCTs fault though.

In conclusion I wasn't looking forward to the train journey as much as usual, but it had to be made.
It must be very difficult for CCT staff going about their daily duties in this sort of working environment, no wonder this last TM stayed in the back cab.

 

[Flywaver]

On the 170 routes the term TM is not used. Plus the Senior Conductors dont like it! Total different conditions between the two ;o)

 

[90019]

1212 from BNS to CNM, again i luckily managed a seat, many were reserved but I sat in a seat which didn't appear to have a LCD reservation, this train was very crowded, 4 carriages from Glasgow to Plymouth??? on time though.

1542 from CNM to BNS, 10 mins late, not many passengers in the front coach, the seat I sat in near to the middle had more legroom, all the seats were facing southwards though, arrived Brum 6 late.

Barnes?

 

[bradders1983]

Barnes?

Pedant.

 

[bnm]

I wasn't going to post about todays CCT experience until I saw that a thread was already running.

My journey was an OPR LEI-CNM, Cheltenham Spa for those not in the know, I knew that this wasn't going to be one of the Great Railway journeys of the World, but Plan B didn't exist.

An OPR on this route? Did you not mean SVR?

 

[38Cto15E]

OPR Off Peak return out and back the same day, off peak, £22.70 with Railcard,also I got a nice discount with my Bitecard at BNS on a cup of coffee. £1.52

Being a geriatric I get confused with all the new terminology, in my day we were all called Guards, I was basically a freight guard but worked some occasional passenger duties (including The Royal Train), the passenger jobs were great, no ticket inspection, just a rough headcount of passengers.

One thing I noticed on my journey, the ticket inspector or whatever he is called was coming one way and the trolley was going in the other,they were about to meet in the middle of the carriage,however, the trolley man did not have reverse on his trolley.

 

[thefab444]

If you're going to try to use CRS codes, please use the correct one for Birmingham New Street which is BHM. BNS is the CRS code for Barnes.

 

[Mojo]

If you're going to try to use CRS codes, please use the correct one for Birmingham New Street which is BHM. BNS is the CRS code for Barnes.

And OPR is not the code for Off-peak Return.