I disagree,you could say that a forum wasn't the place for loads of things if the issue between you and a company,we have complaints from passengers about travel,fares,how they were treated etc,grades of one company moaning about other grades of another and employees moaning about their particular company, and of course people wanting to report the fact that they've seen things where railway people have acted wrongly...all of these things you could say were personal in that a person is upset and has aired his viewed against other individuals or companies,obviously you cannot name names and this has been addressed by The Moderator,but this is a forum and it is supposed to be for people to have their say,so you are on a slippery slope when you have some members telling other members what issues they should and should not address.....
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Why did Southern Rail dismiss me?
- Thread starter sw18david
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I disagree,you could say that a forum wasn't the place for loads of things if the issue between you and a company,we have complaints from passengers about travel,fares,how they were treated etc,grades of one company moaning about other grades of another and employees moaning about their particular company, and of course people wanting to report the fact that they've seen things where railway people have acted wrongly...all of these things you could say were personal in that a person is upset and has aired his viewed against other individuals or companies,obviously you cannot name names and this has been addressed by The Moderator,but this is a forum and it is supposed to be for people to have their say,so you are on a slippery slope when you have some members telling other members what issues they should and should not address.....
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RailUK Forums
driver9000
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The OP asked the question why was he dismissed. We are not armed with the full story or anything leading up to this nor do the vast majority of us have knowledge of Southerns procedures to answer the question. While I agree a forum is a great place to discuss a wide variety of topics both positive and negative, there are those which are not appropriate of which I think an internal disciplinary is one of them. If the OP wants the reasons given then Southern or Ontrack are the ones to approach. That is simply my opinion.
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Already seeing that Southern recruit staff on an agency basis initially has already given me some idea of what company they are, so before anybody writes off this chap as a total fool, they should consider the company management are a bunch of fools aswell. ICEC (later GNER) used agency recruitment (Quest Ltd) up to 1998 before admitting it was a mistake.
I have also worked alongside a number of former Southern staff and I am unable to repeat the description they gave of their former employer on here.
I have also worked alongside a number of former Southern staff and I am unable to repeat the description they gave of their former employer on here.
I don't think anyone on here can disagree with this.
I don't disagree,I just believe that if he wants to air this subject then he has every right to..its been said we are not armed with the facts,but let's be honest ,how many threads and posts on any forum are replied to by people armed with the facts?....Whilst I respect Driver9000 view,I don't think it is for us to say what is appropriate and what isn't,it's a forum so if you don't think it's appropriate then don't get involved with it,it's as simple as that...
The OP is being incredibly foolish by posting on a forum frequented by Southern senior management. That is my most important advice. It seems as though the OP has been advised by posters, and by the moderation team, to remove the topic. However, that they still want to discuss their dirty laundry on a place where Southern's management will read it. This is, well, daft to say the least and serves only to highlight a general lack of common sense.
ralphchadkirk
Established Member
I don't think Southern will be unduly worried by this topic. It'll probably confirm their reasons for letting the OP go.
Whatever his motives,foolish or not,if he wants to discuss his dirty laundry or whatever,providing he follows the rules of the forum,and Yorkie says he has,then he should be allowed to put his point across.As I've said,if he follows the forum rules ,that is his perogative,as it is yours ,and the other members ,whether they read it or not, or indeed, whether they choose to post on what they see as the offending thread.
I see a few things on forums I'm not happy about,but if the Admin and Mods take the view that it doesn't break their rules who am I to say what subjects should and shouldn't be discussed,but of course I can exercise my right to ignore such threads, as it is also yours and everyone else who isn't happy about this particular thread.
Old Timer
Established Member
Depending upon their taxation status, agency workers are not necessarily "employed" by anyone.
An Agency worker knows that they are paid a higher rate per hour than an employee because, they are only there for a short period (in theory), they have different Tax/NI arrangements, they are not entitled to normal employee benefits such as pensions, sick pay, etc.
The OP was therefore NOT sacked by Southern becasue he had no Contract of Employment from which he could be sacked. He would have been removed under the terms of Southern's Contract with the Agency. He also would not be sacked by the Agency because again he does not have a Contract of Employment with the Agency.
It is quite common for Agency staff to be removed from post if they are unable to work harmoniously with established staff or if their attitude gives cause for concern, that said an Agency person can be removed without the need for any reason to be given by an Company utilising them.
An Agency worker knows that they are paid a higher rate per hour than an employee because, they are only there for a short period (in theory), they have different Tax/NI arrangements, they are not entitled to normal employee benefits such as pensions, sick pay, etc.
The OP was therefore NOT sacked by Southern becasue he had no Contract of Employment from which he could be sacked. He would have been removed under the terms of Southern's Contract with the Agency. He also would not be sacked by the Agency because again he does not have a Contract of Employment with the Agency.
It is quite common for Agency staff to be removed from post if they are unable to work harmoniously with established staff or if their attitude gives cause for concern, that said an Agency person can be removed without the need for any reason to be given by an Company utilising them.
It's not that I'm unhappy. I've offered what I believe to be sound advice (and contributed to the thread), as the OP requested. Part of the advice was that it was daft to post this in the first place, for reasons which are obvious. Again, if the OP doesn't want to heed the advice given by me, or any other poster, then they are free to do so.
I think that about sums it up. I personally don't think that starting a thread about this incident was very wise, but I agree that whether to do so or not is a decision for the individual themselves.
I think that the question posed has been answered and it doesn't look like there is anything more that can constructively be said on this matter.
Hi,
its been interesting to test my views of my dismissal with those of forum members and its time to take those views on board. To remind everyone an argument between myself, Gateline assistant, and a colleague, Platform assistant, got heated and led to me being called in to my being called in to a Southern Rail managers office. He invited me put my side of events and told me he would investigate matters and would let me know the outcome of that investigation.
After 2 weeks with no contact from the manager I called my agency, Ontrak, who told me I was no longer required as a gateline assistant at East Grinstead. Annoyed at Southern Rails refusal to give me an explanation for my dismissal I sought the views of RailUk Forums to see what members thought.
To sum up your views there has been a consensus that I brought my dismissal on myself. I have to accept that if I had been able to keep my mouth shut in the face of the Platform assistants hypocrisy I would probably still be In a job.
Others have expressed the view that since I am employed by Ontrak not Southern Rail the TOC dont have to justify their reasons for my dismissal at all. My response to this is to say that it allows Southern Rail to avoid justifying my dismissal and I think I am entitled to know the justification. And so did the Southern Rail manager who asked me to set out my views on the reasons for my argument with the Platform assistant so he could investigate matters.
Justice for me would be for Southern Rail to prove that they had fully investigated the issues brought up as they told me they would and could justify my dismissal on that basis. If that was the case I would learn my lessons and move on. All the signs to me are that Southern Rail want to wish away the issues I brought up and to wish me away.
If thats the case all Southern Rail need to do for me to go away is prove they investigated my case and that my dismissal was warranted.
Sw18david
its been interesting to test my views of my dismissal with those of forum members and its time to take those views on board. To remind everyone an argument between myself, Gateline assistant, and a colleague, Platform assistant, got heated and led to me being called in to my being called in to a Southern Rail managers office. He invited me put my side of events and told me he would investigate matters and would let me know the outcome of that investigation.
After 2 weeks with no contact from the manager I called my agency, Ontrak, who told me I was no longer required as a gateline assistant at East Grinstead. Annoyed at Southern Rails refusal to give me an explanation for my dismissal I sought the views of RailUk Forums to see what members thought.
To sum up your views there has been a consensus that I brought my dismissal on myself. I have to accept that if I had been able to keep my mouth shut in the face of the Platform assistants hypocrisy I would probably still be In a job.
Others have expressed the view that since I am employed by Ontrak not Southern Rail the TOC dont have to justify their reasons for my dismissal at all. My response to this is to say that it allows Southern Rail to avoid justifying my dismissal and I think I am entitled to know the justification. And so did the Southern Rail manager who asked me to set out my views on the reasons for my argument with the Platform assistant so he could investigate matters.
Justice for me would be for Southern Rail to prove that they had fully investigated the issues brought up as they told me they would and could justify my dismissal on that basis. If that was the case I would learn my lessons and move on. All the signs to me are that Southern Rail want to wish away the issues I brought up and to wish me away.
If thats the case all Southern Rail need to do for me to go away is prove they investigated my case and that my dismissal was warranted.
Sw18david
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