Why can't people buy train tickets at newsagents?

[cjp]

I think it's a non-starter due to the amount of training and knowledge which shop staff would need. In particular, newsagents might have a number of part-time or casual staff minding the shop who would all need the training.

It's a good idea for shops to sell simple ticket products with no restrictions, e.g. Oyster topup or Arriva weekly passes via the PayPoint system. But asking shop staff to deal with time restrictions, route restrictions, Railcards and the rest will do more harm than good - either long queues or grief when they sell someone an invalid ticket.
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Why should they be expected to deal with complex questions anymore than you expect to get such information from a TVM?
Let them sell on the same basis. Just tickets

 

[causton]

Having a machine to collect tickets would be good though. If I could collect from my local newsagent, I could then get Plusbus tickets. No point otherwise, as I'd not get my ticket until getting off the bus.

Sent from my LG-D855 using Tapatalk

Definitely.

There is an FCC ticket machine in the University of Hertfordshire campus, which sometimes I walk to to pick up my PlusBus and rail tickets. I wish there was one a bit closer to home though, maybe shopping centres that aren't adjacent to railway stations could have one, so you could buy a PlusBus or other integrated railway ticket! Would save me the hassle of buying a separate bus return ticket as I don't know in advance where I'm going or what I'm doing until it's not worth picking up a PlusBus from the station because I need the PlusBus ticket to get to the station!

 

[muz379]

Why should they be expected to deal with complex questions anymore than you expect to get such information from a TVM?
Let them sell on the same basis. Just tickets

some of the passengers I see talking to the TVM's certainly wouldn't agree with that

 

[jon0844]

"Why can't you buy Nuclear Submarines; Houses; Cars; Medical treatment; medical prescriptions; at newsagents?"

Is this a dumb question?

I'm pretty sure my local shop sells all of the above. It has so much stuff crammed in, it's hard to know.

 

[merlodlliw]

There are such things as ‘rail-appointed travel agents’, but I've never ever seen one. I've always thought I'd love to see a list of where they exist.

In my opinion,the Dee/Severn line at Gobowen railway station has one of the very best rail appointed ticket offices in England(just), it is run on a not for profit basis by volunteer directors, the same building has a cafe run by the local College(five stars)
The ticket office prides itself in finding the cheapest fares for all journeys,plus waiting room part of the same complex has posters on the walls of bygone days.

 

[87 027]

"The man at the newsagent said this ticket was ok for this train". No doubt he is friends with "the man on the platform"

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

"The man at the newsagent said this ticket was ok for this train". No doubt he is friends with "the man on the platform"

He may well be that same iconic figure...

 

[GarethJohn]

I'm pretty sure my local shop sells all of the above. It has so much stuff crammed in, it's hard to know.

I'm sure the CO-OP do practically all that now. If Supermarkets can run Banks and Post Offices then I cannot see why they couldn't do Train Tickets also Tourist Information Centres sell Tickets in Barmouth and possibly Porthmadog and as mentioned before Newtown Train Station has a Travel Agent selling them.
If the Rail industry can trust the general public too operate a TVM then a little training for Retail Staff wouldn't be too difficult if the company saw a profit or an avenue to get customers into the shop.
One thing I could see happen is the major Supermarkets are far better at and would promote offers and increase sales thus benefiting both industries.

 

[Statto]

Do MtoGo shops sell the full range of tickets/local A to B tickets/just rovers?

Yes MtoGo shops sell the full range of tickets as Merseyrail/Merseytravel replaced the ticket office at some stations with MtoGo shops.

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

I'm sure the CO-OP do practically all that now. If Supermarkets can run Banks and Post Offices then I cannot see why they couldn't do Train Tickets also Tourist Information Centres sell Tickets in Barmouth and possibly Porthmadog and as mentioned before Newtown Train Station has a Travel Agent selling them.

Of course, there is the other side of the coin where one might expect railway booking offices to sell travel insurance policies, do hotel bookings, etc, but I would then sit back with anticipation at what the trades union might have to say about the matter.

 

[JohnB57]

...but I would then sit back with anticipation at what the trades union might have to say about the matter.

Because it certainly wouldn't be something along the lines of: "We embrace the opportunity for our members to provide services and opportunities to the public that are relevant to travel in the twenty-first century. At the same time, we view this as an excellent way of ensuring the continued viability of ticket offices and travel centres; a development that will help to ensure security of employment for union members."

Would it?

 

[SS4]

Of course, there is the other side of the coin where one might expect railway booking offices to sell travel insurance policies, do hotel bookings, etc, but I would then sit back with anticipation at what the trades union might have to say about the matter.

And it wouldn't matter a jot because an anti-Union press with call them greedy f*ckers whatever they do

 

[richw]

There are such things as ‘rail-appointed travel agents’, but I've never ever seen one. I've always thought I'd love to see a list of where they exist.

Newells Travel had around 10 branches around here but they are no longer doing rail tickets.

 

[jon0844]

The tourist information in St Albans sells rail tickets, but bless the old lady when I tried to get some tickets - they can't have sold any for some time. I wanted simple Travelcard but for a future date, and it took a fair while for her to figure out how to do it.

Why can't a newsagent just do what it takes to be a travel agent that can sell tickets. Surely they'd then get 6% or whatever the standard commission is? And the unions couldn't moan as they must know travel agents can opt to sell tickets.

Many don't, so perhaps the cost of getting the equipment is too high?

 

[radamfi]

A lot of stations in the Netherlands that don't have a proper ticket office have a regular shop where the cashier sells train tickets as well. The fare structure is very simple so staff don't need extensive ticket training. They probably don't sell so many tickets now that single use tickets have a 1 euro surcharge over reusable smartcards, although they may be doing smartcard top ups instead.

 

[hairyhandedfool]

Plus at the moment booking office staff are not on any sort of commission .
whereas to make it worth their while you would have to give some sort of commission or incentive to these shops to actually start selling tickets as well . This would ultimately be seen by the passenger....

Clerks may not get commission (we have to be impartial, unlike guards selling tickets from unmanned stations), but issuing TOCs do (where do you think guards commission and 'web sale' price drops come from?), Though as I understand it 'agent commission' is lower than 'TOC commission'.

 

[dcsprior]

I guess it'd be cheap and easy to have a newsagent keep a stock of different zonal single/return/day/week tickets, perhaps with scratch-off panels for date (like Lothian Buses' pre-purchase daysavers) but the only place I can think of which has simple zonal fares like this is London, where there's very little call for paper tickets.

 

[hassaanhc]

I guess it'd be cheap and easy to have a newsagent keep a stock of different zonal single/return/day/week tickets, perhaps with scratch-off panels for date (like Lothian Buses' pre-purchase daysavers) but the only place I can think of which has simple zonal fares like this is London, where there's very little call for paper tickets.

Paper travelcards and bus passes in London were stopped being sold in newsagents a few years ago. Bit of a shame if you want to avoid using Oyster and don't live within walking distance of a station.

 

[muz379]

Clerks may not get commission (we have to be impartial, unlike guards selling tickets from unmanned stations), but issuing TOCs do (where do you think guards commission and 'web sale' price drops come from?), Though as I understand it 'agent commission' is lower than 'TOC commission'.

Yer forgot about TOC's issuing tickets that could actually also be used on other TOC's services .

Either way you have to question if the person in the shop is going to be interested in selling the more expensive ticket ,

or if they are going to be more interested in trying to sell you a newspaper or mars bar or something

 

[radamfi]

How much money is spent in commissions to the various ticket websites, ticket selling TOCs and guards? Also credit card companies must be getting a fair bit if Santander can afford to give you 3% cashback for buying train tickets using its 123 credit card, albeit with a £24 annual fee. Maybe fares could be reduced if there is just one ticket selling website and an extra fee for using a credit card instead of a debit card.

 

[hairyhandedfool]

How much money is spent in commissions to the various ticket websites, ticket selling TOCs and guards? Also credit card companies must be getting a fair bit if Santander can afford to give you 3% cashback for buying train tickets using its 123 credit card, albeit with a £24 annual fee. Maybe fares could be reduced if there is just one ticket selling website and an extra fee for using a credit card instead of a debit card.

I *think* TOCs get 11% for Singles, Returns and the like, and 2% for Seasons. I also *think* Agents get 9% for Singles and Returns but are not supposed to sell Seasons. I don't know how this relates to business accounts though and I am happy to be corrected on this.

Guard's commission will vary by TOC (it will be taken out of the TOC commission).

Credit card companies may decide to make a loss in one area so that they can make gains in other areas. They may also have made a deal with ATOC.

 

[pitdiver]

I think where I live most of the newsagents would have difficulty in selling tickets as I can imagine them assisting you with split ticketing for an advanced 1st class return to somewhere like Pwhelli or some other difficult to pronounce station in Wales (with due respect to any Welsh members). I think they prefer FMCG to SMRT (Slow moving Rail Tickets).

 

[6Gman]

"But the man in the paper shop said I could travel by this route/ on this train/ at this time/ and buy the ticket on the train/ at my destination" etc etc

 

[maniacmartin]

It's a long and boring read, but the commission different vendors get is detailed in the Ticketing & Settlement Agreement (TSA), page 165 onwards.

To summarise 'basic products' (normal non-promotional tickets), where there is no special agreement between the TOCs concerned:

In person at a ticket office or on train, or via telesales:
- Season tickets 2%
- Non-season tickets 9%

Online sales
- Season tickets 0%
- Non-season tickets 5%

From Business Travel services: 3% to 6%.

 

[Scotty]

I can just see the cashier at WH Smiths... "Do you want a day return to London with your paper today?"

 

[LateThanNever]

I can just see the cashier at WH Smiths... "Do you want a day return to London with your paper today?"

But they might say here's a voucher for your day return tomorrow....!

 

[Parallel]

Some Tourist Information Centres sell rail tickets... I've used my local one before (when the station ticket office was closed) when I needed a ticket for a long journey.

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

But they might say here's a voucher for your day return tomorrow....!

Now that is an idea worth considering, as it throws the responsibility on the shoulders of someone else than the shop assistant to accept the responsibility for the monies required to make the journey and to answer any questions that might be raised about validity of times for the ticket to be used.

I have in mind that this person will be the member of staff in the ticket office at the railway station (should one exist) or the on-board train staff....

 

[DownSouth]

Also credit card companies must be getting a fair bit if Santander can afford to give you 3% cashback for buying train tickets using its 123 credit card, albeit with a £24 annual fee.

Fees are charged by the acquiring bank/institution to the merchant for every transaction. The acquiring bank is not the bank which issued your card though (i.e. when a Santander customer pays for a train ticket or some groceries, there's no fee that gets pocketed by Santander) but rather the bank which processes the transaction on behalf of the merchant.

These acquirer fees are a larger percentage for low-value transactions, and a smaller percentage for higher-value transactions. This is the reason some third-party shops which provide recharges for the Metrocard system in Adelaide will refuse to accept credit card payment for recharges of less than $20, because the commission provided to them by Adelaide Metro is not enough to cover the cost of processing the transaction.

As for the Santander promotion, that would be all about taking a small loss leader and using it to hopefully make a whole lot more money off you from interest and fees in the long run. The only way that a consumer can "win" from a rebate scheme like that where xx% is offered on certain types of sales is if they pay off the credit card bill in full every month (i.e. not incurring interest) and they use the rebates enough to offset the fees they pay for accessing the scheme.

Maybe fares could be reduced if there is just one ticket selling website and an extra fee for using a credit card instead of a debit card.

You're almost onto it!

Very large businesses can become acquiring institutions in their own right, so that they only have to pay the real costs of that administrative work instead of paying a fee to some other acquiring bank/institution which includes a profit margin every time they make a sale.

For something as large as the UK rail system, the volume of CC transactions would easily be enough that ATOC could set themselves up as an acquiring institution. From that point on, every TOC would use ATOC as their CC acquirer, paying a single yearly contribution towards that function of ATOC instead of a fee for every single transaction going to a for-profit bank. The effect on the TOCs would be that increasing the proportion of CC transactions (as opposed to debit cards or cash purchases) would actually make things even cheaper for them, all without the need to cut down on the number of sales channels or resorting to the old hat non-solution of imposing punitive fees on CC use.

 

[CockneySparrow]

There are regular postings on our forum by people who have problems because they board a train at a station with no ticket facilities, or there is a TVM that doesn't work.

It made me wonder why the number of outlets selling rail tickets is so restricted. In London every other newsagent can sell you tube and bus tickets or top up an Oyster

Wouldn't it be a useful service for tickets to be available in selected newsagents in various towns? Or is the cost if setting it up prohibitive.

Suppose they could locate the TVM in the nearest Tesco/Morrisons this would prevent the machine being robbed at night however the superstore will need rent paying and you will struggle to get everyone to use it, some will say the shouldn't have to take a de tour to buy a ticket, fare dodgers won't use it saying they didnt know there was one at Morrisons, and it will be difficult to enforce the penalty fare program so really what's the point
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"But the man in the paper shop said I could travel by this route/ on this train/ at this time/ and buy the ticket on the train/ at my destination" etc etc

exactly, plus railcard tickets will be sold when the buyer has no railcard as they look cheaper option to the 16 year old behind the till
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Suppose they could sell or have a TVM machine at Sheringham in the big station