why are there no late night trains on SWT network

[pethadine82]

When we meet friends in Central London, we have to cut our night out short as the last SWT that leaves to our station is 23:50.

On stark contrast other operators such as ex FCC used to operate late night trains to Peterborough, and I am sure at one point you could travel on Thameslink nearly 24 hrs a day.

Given that the London to Reading line is one of the busiest in the country I feel that many passengers are being disadvantaged, especially SWT has the monopoly ex Waterloo.

 

[NSE]

The maintenance has to be done at some point. Plus if you run a service out of London late at night, you still have to find somewhere to take the train and/or driver. Which is easier said then done. The driver might not have enough time left to take it back to London or the line might not be open when the train is needed to return to London for the next morning.

 

[MrB]

On stark contrast other operators such as ex FCC used to operate late night trains to Peterborough, and I am sure at one point you could travel on Thameslink nearly 24 hrs a day.

Still can, something like 1tph Thameslink to Three Bridges IIRC.

 

[Starmill]

There are a lot of 'late-night trains' on the SWT network. There is even a train after 1am to Southampton. 2350 is an unusually late last train, and although it could stand to be a little later, given how far you're proposing to travel it's going to be almost impossible to generate any sympathy for you. Most services you will find sparse or nonexistent after 2200.

 

[NSE]

Yeah I did also think that 23:50 is hardly a bad service. I reckon most theatre shows and gig venues (excluding your bigger ones like Wembley or the o2) would be finished in time for that train. Also, the Waterloo-Reading line is probably not SWT's biggest priority. There will be far more customer demand for services down the bigger and busier SWML (as demonstrated by the Soton service mentioned). Also, a quick check on National Rail shows three more trains departing, two for Staines and one for Kingston via Richmond, after the 23:50 and three services departing for Reading from Paddington (and beyond infact as one of them carries onto Oxford). So really, the only section left without a service after 23:50 is the section of stations between Staines and Reading.

So yeah, not really agreeing with you tbh.

 

[D6975]

If you think that's bad, try getting back from Birmingham to Bristol late at night.
The last one is about 22:10, no use whatsoever if you've been to a gig at NEC, not even any use if you've been to a concert at the place just round the corner from New St.

 

[Starmill]

If you think that's bad, try getting back from Birmingham to Bristol late at night.
The last one is about 22:10, no use whatsoever if you've been to a gig at NEC, not even any use if you've been to a concert at the place just round the corner from New St.

At least you don't live in Hereford - the last train from Birmingham is at 2059!

 

[Rapidash]

Could be worse, the last train from Exeter Central to Torbay on a Saturday is 2035. Bizarrely the last one on Sunday is over an hour later!

Never quite figured out the reason for it - there can't be engineering every weekend, surely?

 

[David Goddard]

Saturday evenings have an early wind down on many routes - take East Coast out of Kings Cross where The last trains to Newcastle/Leeds are 2200/2330 Mondays to Fridays, 2100/2200 Saturdays and 2200/2235 on Sundays.
There is probably a perception that people stay put after about 2100 on a Saturday night, as opposed to travelling home on other nights.

 

[swt_passenger]

When one of the rail mags reviewed late night departures a few years ago SWT were considered one of the better TOCs for late night departures from London, if you ignored those actually running an all night service.

I don't think the timetable has changed much since.

 

[higthomas]

Could they not find a way to get all night services going on the four track section to Basingstoke? I feel I heard something about getting bi-directional working going a couple of years ago, bit haven't heard anything since.

 

[30907]

Could they not find a way to get all night services going on the four track section to Basingstoke? I feel I heard something about getting bi-directional working going a couple of years ago, bit haven't heard anything since.

I'm sure they could, but most of the stations have platforms in use on the slow lines only, so serving them would need provision for RRBs which adds to cost. The routes with all night services have platforms on all 4 lines at most places - not to mention a major source of traffic away from London.

 

[Simon11]

Considering they are the 2nd and 3rd largest cities, the last train from Manchester to Birmingham is 22.07!

 

[sprinterguy]

Considering they are the 2nd and 3rd largest cities, the last train from Manchester to Birmingham is 22.07!

Yes, it has struck me as peculiar before that, despite the fact that the primary maintenance depot for the trains is located just "up the road" from Birmingham at Central Rivers and there is a substantial train crew depot at Birmingham, the latest train from Manchester should be so comparatively early.

Based on my personal experience, 23:50 is a very generous time for a last train, that is comfortably beyond the traditional kicking out time of most pubs or the final curtain or encore for the majority of gigs, concerts or plays; a luxury which is not afforded to many others around the country.

 

[notlob.divad]

23:50 out of the nearest city centre would be a luxury up here.
Tonight (Friday)
Liverpool Lime Street - Wigan/Preston 2302
- Manchester Via Chat Moss 2319
- West Kirby 2333
- Crewe / Runcorn 2335
- Manchester via CLC 2338
- Chester 2343
- New Brighton 2348

There is one train across the Mersey at 2358, but all it does is get you across and dump you at the other side. After that you are on your own.

I'd also like to point out that pretty much everyone of those will be standing room only particularly on a Friday and Saturday with Theatre goers, concert goers, and drunken revellers all pilled on.

The 2302, and 2319 are useless for anything at the Arena and you are unlikely to get to them from a lot of other places like the Everyman, the Philharmonic and LIPA.

Taxi drivers in Liverpool do quite nicely out of it.

 

[blotred]

Here was me thinking the last Southern metro from London Victoria at 0042 is a bit early on a Friday night...

Its amazing how living in London can really skew your sense of perspective on things like this

 

[Deerfold]

The OP mentioned London to Reading being very busy.

That's probably why there are trains from Paddington at leat half-hourly until 0034 and then 0144 and 0334 with the day service restarting 0517.

This service used to run hourly until 2001 (I think) and of course does not run on a Saturday night as there'd be no call for it then - there's a last train at 0100 on Saturdays.

 

[sarahj]

Here was me thinking the last Southern metro from London Victoria at 0042 is a bit early on a Friday night...

Its amazing how living in London can really skew your sense of perspective on things like this

Many moons ago I used to live in Haltwhistle. The last train from Newcastle was about 21.30. At the most it was a drink after work, nothing else. You end up sleeping on so many floors etc.

 

[deltic]

There are 7 train departures from Waterloo after midnight and they start again at 5am for the late night party crowd!

 

[[.n]]

There are 7 train departures from Waterloo after midnight and they start again at 5am for the late night party crowd!

That might be true, but as an SWT commuter I have no trains home after 21.35 (and in fact the first train isn't until 6.02), so I would like trains a little later (and earlier).

 

[4141]

If you think that's bad, try getting back from Birmingham to Bristol late at night.
The last one is about 22:10, no use whatsoever if you've been to a gig at NEC, not even any use if you've been to a concert at the place just round the corner from New St.

Up to the early 80's there used to be a departure from Brum soon after 1am, same from Bristol - I was at a function (work-related) one night, and caught the train back from TM to Cheltenham...being rather well oiled, I had a short snooze, only to wake with a start soon after 2am as the train was about to leave Cheltenham! Exit left rather smartly...
Not wanting to sound like a "good old days" post, you used to be able to catch the 23.45 Swansea from Paddington, change at Swindon onto a DMU, and back in Chelt just after 2, and whenever I used the service it was always busy.

 

[NSE]

It's been mentioned on here that some late night services went for a burton due to some of the behaviour. I don't blame the companies for pulling them. Sure it's part of a guards role to sort out customers with issues, but dealing with insults, sorting out fights, dealing with rubbish thrown everywhere, that's not part of anyone's job.

 

[GatwickDepress]

I've always been satisfied with Southern's level of service along the East Coastway. The last direct service is 2130, but the 2336 is a guaranteed connection with the last Victoria service. Enough to hang out with friends with, and the one time it was missed.

Living in Milton Keynes really spoils you for choice with late night trains though. It's easy to see why; London's night economy seems to have a ghostly peak time all of its own.

 

[Ianigsy]

There is one train across the Mersey at 2358

Or as Ken Dodd calls it, half time...

I think that's an improvement from when I used to go carousing in Liverpool in the mid-1990s as I seem to recall the last train to Birkenhead North being about the same time as the last West Kirby is now.

Some last departures from Leeds (excluding the Trans-Pennine route because of the overnight service):

Bradford 2308 (also last train to Halifax and Brighouse- last full run on the Calder Valley is 2235)
Sheffield 2305 (last train to Wakefield- routed via Moorthorpe- last train to Castleford and Barnsley is 2237)
Skipton 2319
Harrogate 2332
Local stations to Huddersfield 2313
Knottingley 2205 (later departure possible by changing from the 2240 at Wakefield)
Doncaster 2240
Ilkley 2315 (for comparative purposes the last through bus from Leeds is exactly an hour earlier)
Selby 2221 (OK, I've broken my non-TPE rule, but their Hull service picks up the intermediate stations in the evening)
Local stations to York 2300

About a quarter to a third of those arrive at their final destinations after midnight. As an occasional theatregoer in Leeds I'd say that probably anything before 2245 might be a problem depending on the show. The Castleford/Pontefract/Wakefield area seems to get a bit of a raw deal, but I'd guess that firstly the locals are more likely to go out in Wakefield than Leeds on a regular basis, and secondly in that area you're getting into competition with Arriva's more frequent buses.

 

[miami]

I got the 2300 Euston to Manchester last night, there were a couple of BTP on it somewhere before Watford - no trouble of course. Last Birmingham train is 2330

 

[Ianno87]

I got the 2300 Euston to Manchester last night, there were a couple of BTP on it somewhere before Watford - no trouble of course. Last Birmingham train is 2330

Not so good on Saturday nights - last Brum is only 2143 (presumably driven by Saturday night planned maintenance access around Rugby)

 

[Bald Rick]

Many moons ago I used to live in Haltwhistle. The last train from Newcastle was about 21.30. At the most it was a drink after work, nothing else. You end up sleeping on so many floors etc.

If you're working in Newcastle, and on the 2130, it is most certainly more than 'a' drink after work!

 

[Ianno87]

Considering they are the 2nd and 3rd largest cities, the last train from Manchester to Birmingham is 22.07!

There is also a 2230 on weekdays, plus a 2309 departure if you don't mind changing LM to Northern at Crewe.

 

[FenMan]

Given that, round my way, Stagecoach prefer to only run buses from 7:30am to 6:00pm Mon-Sat with an abysmal or non-existent service on Sundays, I don't think we should be giving the Souters any bright ideas.

 

[D6975]

Up to the early 80's there used to be a departure from Brum soon after 1am, same from Bristol.

Ahhh the good old days, the 02 : xx Bristol - Sheffield used to be a great way of starting a trip up north. Most of these overnights were mail/parcels trains with a passenger coach attached.