Which rolling stock is most in need of refurbishment/replacement?

[swt_passenger]

Really?!!!

That's great news!

I'll keep an eye out, thanks for the information. I wonder which services they'll operate them on, I think to and from London to Cambridge and Peterborough would be best, I can't see much use for them between Hertford and Moorgate.

It won't happen, my previous post explains why...

 

[HST Power]

It won't happen, my previous post explains why...

Oops, my bad.

How do you mean that a high proportion of Great Northern services will be routed onto Thameslink?

 

[Aictos]

What FCC ought to do with the 313s is give them a facelift with the same exterior (minus door controls) as Merseyrail 507s/508s and give them a interior based on the Southern 313s so getting the best out of both refurb programmes.

The FCC 317s ought to be refurbished to the WAGN 317/6 specification but with a disabled toilet like the 317/7s have.

The 365s ought to have air-conditioning fitted.

However on the issue of 319s heading to Northern for example, do they need the guard door control oanels refitted as I'm sure they have been modded so the driver only needs their control key in the desk to live up the door control buttons as has been done on the 313s.

 

[Blindtraveler]

another supporter of rail britains idea for mk2 breaks. Horay for quieter seated sleaper travel!!

 

[HST Power]

What FCC ought to do with the 313s is give them a facelift with the same exterior (minus door controls) as Merseyrail 507s/508s and give them a interior based on the Southern 313s so getting the best out of both refurb programmes.

313 desperately needs a refurbishment. I like the Southern idea, as their 313s feel much more spacious, have better interior design and always seem to be cleaner.

The FCC 317s ought to be refurbished to the WAGN 317/6 specification but with a disabled toilet like the 317/7s have.

I can see that working.

The 365s ought to have air-conditioning fitted.

That's really all the 365 needs. In my view, it's the best train that FCC run on the Great Northern.

 

[387star]

The entire NXEA fleet needs urgent remedial attention! I have never travelled on one of their trains purely through youtube etc!

Of trains I have travelled on XC Voyagers just because it is degrading to Virgin that they continue to employ the Virgin upholstery whilst service standards have declined. People think they are run by Virgin!

 

[swt_passenger]

Oops, my bad.

I wasn't meaning to be critical, we posted in response to Drsatan at exactly the same time...

How do you mean that a high proportion of Great Northern services will be routed onto Thameslink?

In terms of trains per hour, 4tph from Welwyn, and 2 tph each from Peterborough and Cambridge, will transfer onto the Thameslink route using the new tunnelled connections from the GN (built but not yet used) that join it at St Pancras low level. Those services will remove eight of the existing offpeak services into Kings Cross. Additional services will also still run to/from Kings Cross in the peaks as now.

 

[387star]

Why do class 319s need refurbishing? The entire fleet has recently been refreshed by FCC. I agree the Southern liveried ones are an eyesore but at least only externally.

The class 313s were also refurbished although I understand much of the yellow paintwork remains like the 319/0

FCC livery is hidious but Firsts Groupo new livery is superb (look at the 321s without the more artificial gradation in colour). Perhaps a full repaint is in order regarding 365s because the 365s still have the white paint work on the roof heads.

 

[HST Power]

I wasn't meaning to be critical, we posted in response to Drsatan at exactly the same time...

It's not a problem, I didn't interpret your post as critical anyway.

In terms of trains per hour, 4tph from Welwyn, and 2 tph each from Peterborough and Cambridge, will transfer onto the Thameslink route using the new tunnelled connections from the GN (built but not yet used) that join it at St Pancras low level. Those services will remove eight of the existing offpeak services into Kings Cross. Additional services will also still run to/from Kings Cross in the peaks as now.

An interesting and worthwhile idea. Ditching eight off peak services will put some rolling stock back into FCC's hands. This tunnel is news to me, but it opens the door for better connections to St Pancras.

 

[387star]

Hi what is happening to the 460s? I presume they are out of service which is a waste

 

[anthony263]

Why do class 319s need refurbishing? The entire fleet has recently been refreshed by FCC. I agree the Southern liveried ones are an eyesore but at least only externally.

The class 313s were also refurbished although I understand much of the yellow paintwork remains like the 319/0

FCC livery is hidious but Firsts Groupo new livery is superb (look at the 321s without the more artificial gradation in colour). Perhaps a full repaint is in order regarding 365s because the 365s still have the white paint work on the roof heads.

The interior of most of the first capital connect clas 319's is ok, i think the plan was to install air conditioning on them when they are transfered to work FGW services to Newbury, Oxford etc.

 

[duffman82]

All of Northern's 15x Could do with a standardised refurbishment.

 

[ushawk]

Hi what is happening to the 460s? I presume they are out of service which is a waste

Out of service (occasionally brought back in if a 442 is unavaliable). Dont know if the carriages have started to move to SWT for use in their 458's yet.

Back on the topic, 14x classes need replacing fairly soon and 313's (not Southern's), 314's, 315's, 317's and Southern liveried 319's need refurbishing (as well as a repaint). Southern 455/456's could do with one too, possibly in the same style as the 313's.

 

[387star]

I thought Southern 455s had the same interior as the 313s... the seats are different?

 

[LE Greys]

313 desperately needs a refurbishment. I like the Southern idea, as their 313s feel much more spacious, have better interior design and always seem to be cleaner.

I'd have the 313s, along with 314s, 315s, 507s, 508s, 455s and 456s, as one of the sacrificial classes to be replaced by the new Standard Local EMU. It would also run on Crossrail. It might simply be a 378, or it might be something new, but it would be a simple design, presumably available in 3-car and 4-car versions, possibly overhead, 3rd-rail or dual-system. All versions would share several features. Plenty of seats, but also room for standing and at least one toilet per unit. Other than that, not much else.

Basically, this would do what the PEP-based units and the Networkers were supposed to, produce a standard EMU for local trains.

I'd also start thinking about a diesel version to replace Pacers.
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The 365s ought to have air-conditioning fitted.

Please don't, I'm glad there's still one train where you can get a decent feeling of air movement and that doesn't turn into an oven when an electrical fault happens (or the power goes off, which is worse).

 

[swt_passenger]

Out of service (occasionally brought back in if a 442 is unavaliable). Dont know if the carriages have started to move to SWT for use in their 458's yet.

Nothing happening at all yet (publicly) about SWT 10 car trains. There is work happening on the ground to lengthen some platforms though.

 

[Statto]

The entire Northern Rail fleet needs a refurb especially the 150s & 156s. I was on a couple of NR 156s over the last couple of days & they were dirty & worn seats with what looks like condensation on the inside of the Windows.

 

[The_Stig]

Agreed, irrespective of refurbishment / overhaul the following should be replaced as a matter of urgency (for all kinds of reasons)
Class 14x DMUs
Class 313 / 314 / 315 EMUs

314's are recieving a much needed refresh which makes them far more pleasant to be in so I am really curious why they need to be replaced urgently.

 

[shaun]

142s - Get rid of them and replace them with 172s or similar.

Voyagers - Turn them into Meridians, currently the seats are too narrow and the luggage racks too small.

FGW HSTs - Few more tables needed in standard for the longer-distance routes, otherwise i'm a huge fan of them (yep, i find the seats majestically comfortable and the legroom more than suitable!).

315s - Need to be more like the similar Merseyrail 508s or FCC 313 units internally.

XC 170s - Refurb to be similar to the Chiltern/Scotrail/NXEA Turbostars with more legroom and better seating. Currently unsuitable for Cardiff - Nottingham runs as they are.

Pendos - Refurb to be more like their european cousins, see Voyager above for issues.

319/320/321/322/456 - Refurb to be similar internally to the Connex South Central Express trains (whatever happened to them?) Although maybe give the 456 a '455' style interior.

 

[Skimble19]

I want the 377 moved to operate selected services on the Great Northern, or alternatively, the 313 refurbished.

Why on earth would you want 377's on the GN? I agree about the 313's though.

I'm guessing when Thameslink's completed some of the 377s subleased to FCC might transfer to FCC permanently for use on Great Northern services.

The 377's were always intended for Soutern, the DfT had other ideas though - hence where they are today.

Please don't, I'm glad there's still one train where you can get a decent feeling of air movement and that doesn't turn into an oven when an electrical fault happens (or the power goes off, which is worse).

Agreed! They've got enough windows and the ball vents (those that work ) to keep it fairly cool on there.

 

[HST Power]

Why on earth would you want 377's on the GN? I agree about the 313's though.

I was carrying on with that point from earlier. They could free up some 365s, which could be used to operate GN services that should be run by 365s, not 317s. The 1551 from PBR to PBO for instance.

 

[ACE1888]

they sure are...
Must say FGW's refurbishment of their rolling stock has, in my opinion been ok in general, but 'Pacers' HAVE gone beyond a bad joke...shocking in a word

 

[Skimble19]

I was carrying on with that point from earlier. They could free up some 365s, which could be used to operate GN services that should be run by 365s, not 313s. The 1551 from PBR to PBO for instance.

I can assure you no services to PBO are 313 operated.. perhaps you mean 317? :-?

 

[LE Greys]

I was carrying on with that point from earlier. They could free up some 365s, which could be used to operate GN services that should be run by 365s, not 313s. The 1551 from PBR to PBO for instance.

AFAIK, 378s can fit down the Moorgate tunnels. Can we have some instead of the 313s, please? I know the 313s still work fine, but wider gangways, more room for standing (which is how most City commuters travel in 313s, standing on the short section through the tunnels) possible air-con (although ordinary hopper ventilators and station cooling would be preferable) and the general sense that something new would be preferable to PEP-based stock is what drives this. I also hope that they are fixed-formation six-car, and that they would only go to King's Cross during the weekends, so no visits to Peterborough or Royston, and certainly no excursions through the Welwyn Tunnels.

 

[HST Power]

I can assure you no services to PBO are 313 operated.. perhaps you mean 317? :-?

Yes, I did. Excuse my error, I'm multitasking at the moment between RailUK and Trainz.

 

[LE Greys]

I can assure you no services to PBO are 313 operated.. perhaps you mean 317? :-?

I misread that one as well. The 317s aren't that bad, and are newer than the oldest HSTs. They look a bit worn, but a major internal refurb would fix that. However, I'd rather see them displaced by a few 321s and sent off as temporary stock for the Manchester-Liverpool electrification, until they get some new stock.

 

[HST Power]

I misread that one as well. The 317s aren't that bad, and are newer than the oldest HSTs. They look a bit worn, but a major internal refurb would fix that. However, I'd rather see them displaced by a few 321s and sent off as temporary stock for the Manchester-Liverpool electrification, until they get some new stock.

On the 317 front, I suppose a refurbishment would be a better idea. It's not about being new for me, at least the HST's have some decent room and carriage style! The 317 gets rammed in the peaks and I can't help feeling on the fast stretch of line between Stevenage and Hitchin that it's going to fall into pieces. Refurbishment, or hat and coat!

 

[Skimble19]

So I'm not the only one who's noticed some 317's at speed do give the impression they're about to fall apart

I misread that one as well. The 317s aren't that bad, and are newer than the oldest HSTs. They look a bit worn, but a major internal refurb would fix that. However, I'd rather see them displaced by a few 321s and sent off as temporary stock for the Manchester-Liverpool electrification, until they get some new stock.

Essentially all the FCC 317's and NXEA 317/5 and /8's need is a refurbishment like the 317'6s got from WAGN.. guess that costs a bit too money to be paid for at the moment though! As for displacement by 321s, sadly there aren't any spare I don't think.

 

[HST Power]

So I'm not the only one who's noticed some 317's at speed do give the impression they're about to fall apart

I severely doubt it, I'm with you on that front! The noise, the squeaking and the juddering makes me look even more forward to the fact that I get off at Hitchin!

 

[NXEA!]

There are several candidates for a refurbishment around my way. The 321's are very tired looking and grotty, with the ex-Silverlink/LM units looking the worst. They should have a massive mid-life refurbishment and rip out the existing interior, and replace with high-back seating and new panelling and flooring in a nice neutral color, and then replace the toilets with one disabled access toilet. Some of the 360's I've been on look a bit tired, so I would say a refresh with new seat covers panelling and carpet. The Mark 3's if they are going to be kept could do with a big refurbishment, considering they were only 'refurbished' 6/7 years ago they're in a tatty state. I'd put in plug sockets, and assess the condition of the seats, if they were good enough I'd keep them, if not, I'd replace them with Grammer seats, but a litte more padded. The 315's are fine in my opinion, and I actually quite like the pink panelling. The 170's could do with new seat covers panelling and flooring to make the interior seem more airy and spacious, and the Sprinters I'd do something more akin to the EMT 158 programme, and take out the current seats and use Grammer seats (more padding again) but arrange them around more tables. For replacement I think the only thing that need to go are Pacers.