Which diesel service spends the most time on electrified lines?

[tbtc]

As a contrast to the IEP debate, which diesel services currently spend the biggest part of their journey on electrified lines?

Obvious examples are:

• Manchester Airport - Edinburgh
• Harrogate - London
• Morpeth - Metro Centre
• London - Chester

(Manchester Airport - Edinburgh will be EMU in a few years when the "Lancashire Triangle" is wired)

For the sake of argument, I'm not talking about services that are 100% electrified (STW 158s on the Lymington branch, Virgin's Birmingham - Edinburgh Voyagers) - this is a "stock" issue and could be resolved with EMUs. I am talking about the diesel services which could become EMU if little gaps are electrified.

 

[Masbroughlad]

East Coast's London - Aberdeen and Inverness?

 

[jopsuk]

What about the Open Access services on the East Coast?

 

[ainsworth74]

Grand Central: KGX - Bradford/Sunderland, but it wouldn't be a small electrification job.

Hull Trains/East Coast: KGX - Hull, this wouldn't be so hard to do and would free up a HST and a bunch of 180s.

East Coast: KGX - Lincoln.

 

[deltic]

Virgin's Euston-Chester must be a contender for highest percentage of trip under the wires

 

[gordonthemoron]

do NXEA still run direct trains from Great Yarmouth to Liverpool Street?

 

[142094]

Only a few times per day but you can extend the MetroCentre - Morpeth trains to Chathill.

 

[klewer]

do NXEA still run direct trains from Great Yarmouth to Liverpool Street?

Nope, these finished at the start of December last year (thank god)

 

[ainsworth74]

do NXEA still run direct trains from Great Yarmouth to Liverpool Street?

Only during the summer (possibly only Saturdays) and even then they use a 90+Mk3 set and drag it from Norwich to Great Yarmouth.

 

[sprinterguy]

do NXEA still run direct trains from Great Yarmouth to Liverpool Street?

There's two Saturday only return trips, but these are electrically hauled as far as Norwich.

There are no longer any 170 workings into Liverpool Street from Lowestoft via Ipswich.

 

[klewer]

Only during the summer (possibly only Saturdays) and even then they use a 90+Mk3 set and drag it from Norwich to Great Yarmouth.

Realised I was thinking of the former Lowestoft services when I replied - whoops.

 

[sprinterguy]

Only a few times per day but you can extend the MetroCentre - Morpeth trains to Chathill.

As I’m sure you know, the problem with electrifying Newcastle to Gateshead Metrocentre for the Morpeth to Metrocentre runs is that it would create a very small micro-fleet of EMUs at Heaton, where it’s better just to use stock out of the larger general fleet of 142s.

 

[142094]

As I’m sure you know, the problem with electrifying Newcastle to Gateshead Metrocentre for the Morpeth to Metrocentre runs is that it would create a very small micro-fleet of EMUs at Heaton, where it’s better just to use stock out of the larger general fleet of 142s.

Aye very true, although it would be one of the more simplest electrification schemes. Wouldn't be too practical to send EMUs down to Neville Hill for maintenance, then yet again Neville Hill do send units up north for work at Heaton. Swings and roundabouts.

 

[sprinterguy]

Aye very true, although it would be one of the more simplest electrification schemes. Wouldn't be too practical to send EMUs down to Neville Hill for maintenance, then yet again Neville Hill do send units up north for work at Heaton. Swings and roundabouts.

Plus looking at the 2007 Heaton Pacer diagrams, they seem to think nothing of units operating all day deep in the Neville Hill area, with some lengthy York-Heaton ECS moves.

Introduce an Edinburgh to Newcastle EMU stopper, every two hours or something, and then you might be in business as regards changing the Morpeth-Metrocentre services over to EMU operation, if Heaton had a few more EMUs to look after overnight. It would put reopening of the Blyth and Tyne to passenger traffic a bit out of reach though.

 

[scotsman]

As far as I know, the longest distance under the wires is 401mi 57ch (1200 London Kings Cross - Inverness - under wires as far as Newbridge Jn)

 

[tbtc]

As I’m sure you know, the problem with electrifying Newcastle to Gateshead Metrocentre for the Morpeth to Metrocentre runs is that it would create a very small micro-fleet of EMUs at Heaton, where it’s better just to use stock out of the larger general fleet of 142s.

True.

From memory, you are talking about two EMUs needed to run Morpeth - Newcastle - Metro Centre - Newcastle - Metro Centre - Newcastle - Morpeth (taking a couple of hours to provide an hourly combined service), plus two more for "peak extras" (inc Chathill) plus one unit "spare". Which means five EMUs needed to cover two "daytime" duties. Not great use of stock, and no scope to interwork at Metro Centre with the Middlesbrough duties.

Not sure whether the Metro extension to Sunderland would allow conventional EMUs to work that line (to include other "local" routes in the north east and improve the case for electrifying the short line to the Metro Centre)
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Aye very true, although it would be one of the more simplest electrification schemes. Wouldn't be too practical to send EMUs down to Neville Hill for maintenance, then yet again Neville Hill do send units up north for work at Heaton. Swings and roundabouts.

IIRC when 333s were introduced they got route clearance to allow them to travel to Heaton for maintenance (via Doncaster). I guess it wouldn't be so practical to run Morpeth EMUs down to Leeds regularly, but we can dream

 

[Class172]

I'd say Birmingham New St. - Rugeley Trent Valley

 

[sprinterguy]

Not sure whether the Metro extension to Sunderland would allow conventional EMUs to work that line (to include other "local" routes in the north east and improve the case for electrifying the short line to the Metro Centre)

I'd like to see it happen, but it would require withdrawing the Metro service from the Sunderland extension and rewiring the catenary, as the Tyne and Wear Metro is 1500V DC. There'd be an awful lot of hurdles to be overcome in electrfying the Durham coast for heavy rail services. No chance, basically.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

I'd say Birmingham New St. - Rugeley Trent Valley

Yeah that's certainly a good example. It's a diesel island that could really do with being electrified as soon as LM get new stock to replace the 323s (I'm not expecting it any time soon of course, the 323s are only middle aged and are excellent trains).

 

[142094]

Unless we can have that fancy system in Germany (IIRC?) where there are two types of OHLE wires. Seeing as how Morpeth - MetroCentre trains are normally very empty outside of peak rush hour and school holidays, there wouldn't be much point changing them to EMUs. I can see Newcastle MetroCentre shuttles being some of the last services to be ever worked by a 142.

 

[sprinterguy]

Unless we can have that fancy system in Germany (IIRC?) where there are two types of OHLE wires. Seeing as how Morpeth - MetroCentre trains are normally very empty outside of peak rush hour and school holidays, there wouldn't be much point changing them to EMUs. I can see Newcastle MetroCentre shuttles being some of the last services to be ever worked by a 142.

Heaton: The final outpost of the Pacer railbus. It has a nice ring to it, and I can fully imagine that it'll be the case.

 

[tbtc]

I'd say Birmingham New St. - Rugeley Trent Valley

Out of interest, how would Birmingham - Walsall - Rugeley - Stafford compare time-wise with the busy route through Wolves?

 

[Failed Unit]

As far as I know, the longest distance under the wires is 401mi 57ch (1200 London Kings Cross - Inverness - under wires as far as Newbridge Jn)

I would concur in terms of distance, but if you look at the question another way it still has a long way to go with no wires.

I think the shortest non-wired are:
London - Lincoln 16.5miles from Newark

London - Chester 21 miles from Crewe.

Manchester - Edinburgh is very short deansgate - Euxton can't be much more than 20 miles.

 

[sprinterguy]

Out of interest, how would Birmingham - Walsall - Rugeley - Stafford compare time-wise with the busy route through Wolves?

IIRC there used to be a Central Trains service that ran that way. It would take about 70 minutes, based on current Chase line times.

 

[The Snap]

Manchester - Edinburgh is very short deansgate - Euxton can't be much more than 20 miles.

...which just highlights how bizarre and wasteful the current system is. Hence, the plan to electrify the Manchester to Preston route is excellent (although perhaps long overdue).

 

[VideozVideoz]

I'd say Hazel Grove - Preston. Majority of the route electrified with sprinters operating the service.

 

[The Snap]

I'd say Hazel Grove - Preston. Majority of the route electrified with sprinters operating the service.

That's true, the Piccadilly to Hazel Grove line is completely electrified throughout and hasn't seen an electric train for years! So I've heard anyway...

 

[sonorguy]

Not sure whether the Metro extension to Sunderland would allow conventional EMUs to work that line (to include other "local" routes in the north east and improve the case for electrifying the short line to the Metro Centre)

It isn't a 'short line' though as it carries on to Carlisle and there isn't a justification for electrifying the whole route that I can see.

 

[sonic2009]

Glasgow Central - York is 3hr 40mins under wires.

 

[VideozVideoz]

That's true, the Piccadilly to Hazel Grove line is completely electrified throughout and hasn't seen an electric train for years! So I've heard anyway...

I think it may get 1 electric train a day at present! That's what I last heard about 6 months ago... what a waste of infrastructure.

 

[Nym]

Erm, I'd say the longest proportion of diesel under wires, ermm.....

Birmingham - Scotland!