Which conurbation has busiest peak services outside London?

[anti-pacer]

As the question asks... but I'm talking in the UK, not just England.

 

[yorkie]

How do you define "busiest"?

Do "services" include all rail (including light rail) or just National Rail services?

 

[anti-pacer]

How do you define "busiest"?

Do "services" include all rail (including light rail) or just National Rail services?

Sorry, yeah, including light rail.

 

[yorkie]

If you're talking pure numbers, and including light rail, I'd be very surprised if it wasn't Manchester in that case.

 

[anti-pacer]

If you're talking pure numbers, and including light rail, I'd be very surprised if it wasn't Manchester in that case.

How do the following fare for commuter flows;

Birmingham
Bristol
Cardiff
Edinburgh
Glasgow
Newcastle
Sheffield

I know Leeds, Liverpool and Manchester have busy commuter services, having used them, but what about the above?

 

[jonnysr]

Glasgow? (Suburban rail + Subway) Glasgow has the largest suburban network in the UK outside London, not sure if it's the busiest though.

 

[mister-sparky]

I'm sure it's been on here before that it's Glasgow

 

[Liam]

Doesn't Glasgow have quite a low level of car ownership compared to other UK cities?

 

[Taunton]

How do the following fare for commuter flows;

Birmingham
Bristol
Cardiff
Edinburgh
Glasgow
Newcastle
Sheffield

Bristol = almost zilch. The main station is too far away from the commercial/cultural/retail/educational areas of the city.

 

[Bald Rick]

Glasgow then Cardiff.

 

[Busaholic]

Bristol = almost zilch. The main station is too far away from the commercial/cultural/retail/educational areas of the city.

And the number of local train services is pathetic.

 

[Strathclyder]

I'm pretty sure that Glasgow is second behind London, with Cardiff in 3rd place.

I'm willing to be corrected on that, though.

 

[thenorthern]

Out of the most people passing through the main city centre stations per day Birmingham I think has the most although the figure is hard to calculate as both Birmingham and Glasgow both have light rail systems but the railway more popular to commute as the light rail systems are a bit useless. In Manchester and Sheffield though the light rail systems go to many parts of the city and are a good way to commute as the can reach many people.

I would say overall Birmingham would have the highest number of overall commuters but on a weighted ratio it will be somewhere small.

 

[Penmorfa]

Liverpool must be in the list. Central has 26 trains an hour most of the day, plus services from Lime Street high level.

 

[WatcherZero]

https://www.gov.uk/government/uploa...file/354099/rail-passengers-crowding-2013.zip

Thats heavy rail, doesnt include light rail and doesnt include Glasgow. I think I saw somewhere Glasgow all day passengers was around 100,000 per day and the subways around 12m per year. That would make Glasgow the third busiest heavy rail in the UK behind Birmingham and London but when combined Light+heavy rail I think Manchester then comes second followed by Glasgow then Birmingham.

Pure heavy rail by passengers
London
Birmingham
Glasgow
Manchester
Leeds
Liverpool
Cardiff
Bristol
Sheffield

by number of heavy rail services, morning peak
London 1027
Glasgow ??
Birmingham 182
Manchester 177
Liverpool 126
Cardiff 114
Leeds 113
Sheffield 58
Bristol 52

 

[yorkie]

If you include services/passengers beyond the "conurbation" then it's very difficult to say, as it really depends on how you define it.

I expect most people at Birmingham New Street are going to be going beyond the "conurbation", so does that count or not?

It also depends on how "busy" is defined. People perceive a train as busy if most seats are taken, but the number of people on a lightly loaded long train may be much higher than a packed 2-car pacer.

I don't think it's going to be possible to give a definitive answer; only suggestions for possible answers.

 

[GrimsbyPacer]

Another place that could be considered is Cardiff. There is a lot of Valley Line routes running there with local pacers. Teesside has plans to turn their commuter railways into a metro. Bradford also has metro routes.

 

[jonnysr]

Out of the most people passing through the main city centre stations per day Birmingham I think has the most although the figure is hard to calculate as both Birmingham and Glasgow both have light rail systems but the railway more popular to commute as the light rail systems are a bit useless. In Manchester and Sheffield though the light rail systems go to many parts of the city and are a good way to commute as the can reach many people.

I would say overall Birmingham would have the highest number of overall commuters but on a weighted ratio it will be somewhere small.

I wouldn't call the Glasgow Subway "a bit useless". It does a great job of covering areas of the city with no heavy rail station.

 

[thenorthern]

I wouldn't call the Glasgow Subway "a bit useless". It does a great job of covering areas of the city with no heavy rail station.

I know it does but it doesn't go out into the suburbs the same as the Manchester Metrolink or the London Underground and the Sheffield Supertram.

 

[jonnysr]

I know it does but it doesn't go out into the suburbs the same as the Manchester Metrolink or the London Underground and the Sheffield Supertram.

That's what Glasgow's heavy rail does.

 

[Strathclyder]

I wouldn't call the Glasgow Subway "a bit useless". It does a great job of covering areas of the city with no heavy rail station.

The opening times on Sundays could do with being improved, though.

 

[jonnysr]

The opening times on Sundays could do with being improved, though.

Agreed, this should be sorted in the next couple of years once new rolling stock is bought and full automation is brought in.

 

[AM9]

How do you define "busiest"?

Do "services" include all rail (including light rail) or just National Rail services?

Or you could express the busiest services as passengers per hour per track.

 

[Strathclyder]

Or you could express the busiest services as passengers per hour per track.

I think the Hyndland East Junction - Finnieston West Junction section of the Argyle/North Clyde lines (with over 30 tph in the peaks and 28 tph outside of the peak on weekdays) can lay claim to that title, at least in Scotland.

 

[thenorthern]

I still think its got to be Birmingham if we were doing conurbation then the largest one has to be the West Midland as it also includes Wolverhampton, Walsall and Solihull which all have a fair few commuters as well as Birmingham.

 

[AM9]

I think the Hyndland East Junction - Finnieston West Junction section of the Argyle/North Clyde lines (with over 30 tph in the peaks and 28 tph outside of the peak on weekdays) can lay claim to that title, at least in Scotland.

and how many seats are there in those trains?

 

[Cherry_Picker]

I still think its got to be Birmingham if we were doing conurbation then the largest one has to be the West Midland as it also includes Wolverhampton, Walsall and Solihull which all have a fair few commuters as well as Birmingham.

Coventry (in the same metropolitan county as Birmingham) has a significant commute into Birmingham too.
It's going to be impossible to measure what is second because there are so many ways of interpreting the question and defining the answer, but in terms of number of trains, overcrowding of those trains in the peaks and overall passenger numbers Brum is right up there.

Birmingham has the second largest economy in the country and a lot of it's main business and commercial areas are well served by rail (do any other major cities have stations located as centrally as Brum?) so people coming into the city have more reason to take the train, but it's relative proximity to London and the frequency of it's train service to London (8 tph all day over multiple routes) does mean that a bit more of it's potential business gets cannibalised by the capital than, say, Manchester or Glasgow.

 

[jonnysr]

and how many seats are there in those trains?

Varies between 6 and 3 car EMU's, you do the maths! 318/320/334's all operate this line. My local station, Partick has a train roughly every 4 minutes peak. And that's just one Glasgow station, never mind the lines that go elsewhere all over the city.